Using the Buyer's Journey to Enable Revenue with Paul Butterfield, Founder & CEO of Revenue Flywheel Group

In this episode of Exploring Growth, host Lee interviews Paul Butterfield, founder and CEO of Revenue Flywheel Group. Paul shares his extensive experience in technology and sales leadership, focusing on how to transform sales teams into customer-centric organizations. They highlight the need for a unified strategy to bridge gaps between sales and marketing, aiming to drive revenue and build strong customer relationships.

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Paul - https://www.linkedin.com/in/paulrbutterfield/

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If all customer facing or at least

customer um, teams that have

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impact on the customer if they

don't deal with them directly,

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if they're not working under a single

strategy aligned to that journey,

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something's not as good.

At best case, something's not as

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good as it could be.

Worst case, something is

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probably broken. All right.

Welcome back to Exploring Growth.

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Today I have the opportunity to

sit down with Paul Butterfield.

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He's a founder and CEO of

Revenue Flywheel Group.

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And they help transform sales teams

into customer centric organizations.

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Welcome to the show, Paul.

Hi, Lee. Thanks for having me.

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I've been looking forward to this.

Yeah.

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So, you know,

before we get into our discussion,

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because we're going to talk about

buyer's journey and all the,

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all the things. Yeah.

Um, tell us a little bit about

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revenue flywheel Group.

Um, tell us a little bit about your

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background and kind of the things

you're involved in right now.

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Revenue.

Flywheel Group actually has

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existed as a part time thing,

uh, since about 2015.

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But I left my last corporate VP

role in, uh, spring of last year

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to take it full time.

And we did a rebrand and all of that.

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But what we do as an outgrowth

of my over two decades in tech

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leading sales organizations,

both channel and direct sales,

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and also building and leading,

uh, revenue enablement teams and

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strategies at three different

companies on a global scale,

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and bringing together the things

that I have learned in all of

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those capacities to help clients

learn how to think differently,

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it's usually differently, um,

and be truly focused on what's

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going on with the customer and

serving them while still.

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In fact, when you do it right,

revenue generally takes care of

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itself. Uh, yep.

So but it's just that it's me.

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Just take a couple of decades of

experience.

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Things I've learned,

things I've learned not to do,

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trying to help other people

figure it out Yeah. That's great.

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And so when we were introduced

immediately, what stood out to me was

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your focus on the buyer's journey.

And, you know, I know with Signal

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Media, my content marketing agency,

we focus a lot on the buyer journey.

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So, you know,

people come to us and want

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podcast or video content created.

The first thing we talk about is,

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okay, let's talk about what's

happening from the very beginning.

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You know, maybe an ad all the

way through to customer success.

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And a lot of times it's not

fully mapped out.

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So we'll have to look at what is

actually happening.

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But um, but you know,

we start with the, with the, the,

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the customer journey, the buyer's

journey, because that's how we're

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going to be able to build content

to serve the parts where they may

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have gaps for higher engagement or

conversion or whatever it may be.

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And so I thought that that stood out.

And so I think for a lot of

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companies, what I see is this

big disconnect between sales and

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marketing, marketing teams.

And I think it's I know it is.

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I can confidently say it's

because they haven't thought

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enough about the journey, right?

Because if they look at the full

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journey, they're going to realize

that it's all one big happy family.

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We all we don't need to have

these this divide and conquer

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kind of mentality.

So I'm curious your perspective.

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Well, 100% everything you just said,

the one of the terms that that I use,

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um, and that you may have seen

on the website, is what I call

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customer journey enablement.

And we may get into this a

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little more in the episode, but,

you know, yet sales enablement,

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you get revenue enablement.

I look at it as customer journey

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enablement because of what you said.

If all customer facing or at least

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customer, um, teams that have

impact on the customer, if they

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don't deal with them directly,

if they're not working under a single

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strategy aligned to that journey,

something's not as good.

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At best case, something's not as

good as it could be.

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Worst case, something is

probably broken and, you know,

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somewhere in between. That's right.

So to me, that journey is everything

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that you're talking about.

Um, because the marketing is

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typically concerned with.

But then what happens when an SDR

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or PDR, which may be marketing or

sales when they get Ahold of them,

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then what happens in the handoff

to sales? Right.

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Is there a sales methodology

that's customer centric, that's

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actually creating a differentiating

experience for prospects?

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What happens after that?

Is implementation coordinating

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with all of this? I hope so.

What about customer success.

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So that's to me that that's the

entire journey.

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It's that infinity loop that

we've all seen lots of slides on

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in the last couple of years.

But my work is really focused on

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that point where marketing is

probably handing it off to sales

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all the way through renewal and

customer success. So yeah.

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Yeah, I like, you know, we haven't

seen that infinity loop for some

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time. It's kind of gone away.

But I did like it for a while.

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It's kind of it's kind of, you know,

cliche, but it does make sense

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because the mentality is there.

Like it needs to start.

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It sort of starts and ends with

everyone, right?

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So yeah, everyone should be on,

you know, playing on the field.

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Yeah. Yeah.

And in SAS it really is an

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infinity loop.

If you break the loop you lose

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revenue.

So yes, I think that's why it

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spoke to me because I've been in

SAS for so long at this point.

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So yeah, I totally agree.

Um, and so um, where does the term

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sales enablement sort of where was

that born and how does it how does

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it apply to all of this. Yeah.

That's a that's a great question.

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I we'll do the, we'll do the uh,

the abridged version because.

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There first also you you're,

you're like you're like a big

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time in sales enablement.

So I mean I'm sort of like poking the

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beast here a little bit, but yeah.

Tell a little bit about first.

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Like you're somebody who roles um,

you're mentioning you're,

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you're a part of an organization.

I can't remember the name of it.

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We were talking about the podcast.

Oh, the. Revenue Enablement Society.

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Yes. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah, I, I got into enablement

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completely by accident,

relatively late in my career,

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I guess the last 12 years or so

of my corporate career.

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And so I guess now I've been

doing about almost 14 years.

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And the short story is I was

leading the Mid-Market East or.

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Yeah, Mid-Market East or North

America sales team at a company

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called In Contact.

We had a change of leadership.

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New EVP came in, and after he'd

been there a couple of months,

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I went in and my one on one,

it was in September or 12.

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I remember this and I went into

the last month of the quarter.

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I'm expecting to talk about deals,

to go commits, slides,

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all that stuff, and we probably did.

But remember what I remember as

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he walked to his whiteboard,

he wrote the words sales enablement.

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And in the fall of 2012,

I'd never heard that term,

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and I was not new to sales.

And he explained to me what that was,

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and he went on to explain that

he'd watched how I was

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developing my ideas, and he sent

me home with the challenge.

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Was I willing to take on a role that

he would create for me and figure out

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how to do what I was doing for my own

team, for the entire org, because

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there was no learning development,

professional development of any kind

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in our company for any department.

And I went home for the weekend and

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came back, and the rest is history.

So that's how I got into it.

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So I was doing a lot of research,

and the fact is there wasn't

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much documented.

It was a new industry,

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a new profession, maybe,

is a better word. Yeah.

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Uh, there were some people at

Forrester, was doc started,

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documented Gartner, some others.

But there wasn't a lot,

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a lot of it was figured out.

And I was always very grateful for

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those many years, uh, you know,

carrying a bag and leading teams

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that I had pretty good insights.

And my other, you know,

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sales leaders in that organization.

Okay, guys,

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we can't complain anymore.

Bill's given me, you know,

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budget and and we're going to have

training now. What do we need? Right.

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So we we figured it out so we

didn't get everything right.

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But but we got a lot right and I

got better.

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I went to GE and then I went to

Vonage and finally ended up in an

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edtech firm called Instructure,

where I had to come in.

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I never inherited a team.

I had to build the strategy, build

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the team, etc. and the same time I'm

going through this, the profession

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was going through this. Yeah.

So sales enablement but but,

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but with the growth of the profession

There was a lot of. So what?

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I'm looking for a lot of different

opinions on what sales enablement is,

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and some of it was very centric,

focused on just the learning and

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development and onboarding,

things like that.

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Then you had folks like me that

grew up in sales, and to me,

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if somebody's sitting in a class,

we better see an improvement in

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their performance at some point down

the road or we wasted their time.

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Yeah, enablement was a means to

an end and nothing more. So.

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So these two philosophies grew up

side by side, and at some point

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I don't remember really when it

was I started talking about as

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revenue enablement because I

started to figure out that,

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but just focusing on the sales team,

we were missing out on creating

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a better customer experience.

Others were figuring it out as well.

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So you fast forward to about two

years ago, more and more people are

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using the term revenue enablement.

I was elected as board president

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of the Revenue Enablement Society,

but it was called the Sales

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Enablement Society at the time,

and had always been one of the

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things that the board and I did,

uh, in the fall of 23 was announce

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a name change at our convention

to be more current with what the

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industry was actually seeing. Yeah.

So that's that's a short version.

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And there's also been a lot of

shakeup in the enablement community

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as the SAS company, as SAS,

the SAS economy contracted.

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Enablement was hit hard.

And as difficult as that's been,

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the silver lining.

And I hear this from a lot of

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folks I talk to,

is that enablement teams that

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weren't focused on revenue outcomes

now realize that's it, right?

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Those companies don't have

dollars to throw at the newest

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cool team or thing.

And so you've got to show a

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return or correlate a return.

You're not generating the revenue,

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but you've got to show some

correlation.

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So what is sales enablement?

I mean I say sales and you're going

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to higher level revenue enablement.

What is. It.

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It's a combination of things.

So the first thing people a lot

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of people think of is training.

Right. What what is it.

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And yes, training is part of it all.

Training is sales.

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Training is probably sales

enablement. But there's so much more.

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There's working with marketing

enablement.

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Teams cannot stand alone in an

ideal situation enablement, product

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marketing or possibly marketing,

depending on how they're organized,

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but specifically product marketing at

a minimum, and rev ops are a three

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legged stool, none of which will

succeed fully without the other.

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And so a big part of enablement is

working with those other teams,

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like a product marketing team,

and making sure that product

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marketing has that customer map,

that customer journey map.

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Product marketing is generating

collateral and things.

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But is that lining up with the way

that we're teaching the sellers to

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sell and prospect and all of that?

Let's make sure we're supporting

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them. All of that.

It's working with the folks that

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rev ops to make sure that we are

measuring the impact that

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enablement is having.

Um, and I mentioned earlier, it's

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working with enabling the training

and onboarding and continuing the

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professional development of those

customer success teams that are

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so vital for those customers,

okay, to be successful.

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That was a that was a horrible,

terrible that was an essay question

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from high school and say thank you.

Anyway But but you get my point.

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Because the minute you sign a

contract,

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the renewal cycle has started.

And if they don't have a great

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hand-off and a great customer success

experience, renewal gets becomes

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very difficult in 1 or 2 years,

whenever it is so.

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So again, at a high level to me,

enablement, revenue enablement

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is all of those things.

You've got onboarding, you've got

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ongoing professional development.

But but it's coordinating being

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almost a hub with these other

groups to make sure that things

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are the sale.

Sellers are hearing one voice,

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a united voice in how we're

going to market. There you go.

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So it's sort of the connective

tissue for, for for ideally.

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Yeah. Working together. Yeah.

When it's working. Well.

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Oh interesting about this um,

timeline that you're talking about

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from 2012, you know, into the

current day is at the same time,

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in a parallel, you have the birth

of inbound marketing and you

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have inbound marketing is now,

um, you know, at first it was

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sales enablement, right?

And then as time goes on with inbound

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and other forms of product marketing

and those kind of things coming,

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coming on especially heavy in

tech and SaaS.

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Um, that's where I think it has to be

looked at as revenue enablement,

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not just sales. Yeah.

Yeah, I think I think, yeah.

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Go ahead.

And there's still not consolidation.

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You'll hear people call it sales

enablement.

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Revenue enablement I've even heard

go to market or GTM enablement.

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I don't totally buy into that.

I can see where they might be

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coming from.

That's why I just came up with my own

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label, Customer Journey Enablement,

because I found when working

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with executives,

my last company I worked for was

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part of the Thoma Bravo portfolio.

We were one of their port calls, and

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I was asked to come in and a couple

of times and do a do an advisory

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session with their CRO operating

group for all the port calls.

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And what I found in doing that is

this group of highly educated, highly

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successful people truly did not did

not understand what enablement was.

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And part of why is because if you're

not living in it day to day and you

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hear 2 or 3 different terms for it,

you're seeing it executed in 2

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or 3 different ways, right?

That just confuses.

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It's just confusing for anyone.

That's where I came up with the

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customer journey enablement,

because that anybody can get their

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head around, even if they have no

background in enablement. Yeah.

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Revenue leaders and go to market

leaders understand customer journey.

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So yeah for sure.

And you know what I've seen you tell

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me from your perspective this is this

is something that's very hot and

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heavy in the SaaS world primarily.

Do you see this in the traditional

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B2B world at all? It's growing.

Yes. The answer is yes.

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It's probably depending on who I

talk to.

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5 to 10 years behind where it is

in the tech world. Makes sense.

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Yeah, but I have friends.

I have a good friend who is the

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head of sales enablement for The

Economist in London. Oh, okay.

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Very traditional. Right. Magazine.

Well, it comes as a newspaper, but,

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um, but I know folks that head up

enablement or UN enablement and

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American Express at some of the

biggest banks in the country at the

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post office. Um you get the idea.

Uh, yeah. Uh, I'm trying to remember.

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Where is the one?

Um, I'm thinking of Ford.

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She runs a huge enablement

program at Ford Motor Company.

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So it's coming along.

And more traditional,

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I guess Ford is is B2B or B2C,

but but more and more companies are

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starting to figure out the benefits.

Yeah. Okay.

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So as we kind of now set our

sights on the buyer's journey and,

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you know, you work with a lot of

sales team salespeople when when

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you meet them and you find them

in their current state. Mhm.

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Um, how are they typically operating.

Are they thinking about buyer's

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journey or are they thinking

about any of that.

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That's hard to say because because

within a sales team of any size,

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some have figured it out and some

have it, you're always going to

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have some some highly successful

salespeople that either either

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subconsciously or consciously

have figured some of this out on

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their own, and they're they're

crushing it because of that. Sure.

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But typically the typical seller, um,

and typical organization that I've

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worked with, either as an internal

resource or as a consulting resource.

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There's a couple things going on.

Even if the sellers and the

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buyers and sellers are trying to

think about the customer and the

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buyer journey, they haven't been

provided with that information.

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There's not a cohesive plan to

train them on it and reinforce

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it and give them materials that

help them utilize it.

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And what that results in is they

do not have the business acumen

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to hold a conversation with a

prospect that's not 20 questions

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and or a demo and or a pitch deck,

and, and those things may all

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have their place do have their

place somewhere in the process.

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But in that first conversation, it is

not the ideal customer experience.

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You need to go in and add value.

Yeah, and that's a problem in

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most organizations.

Now you can you can identify that

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and you can teach them all of that.

It's all fixable.

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But that's that's probably the

biggest problem I see coming in.

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You know, salespeople are very

tactical and very technical in I

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don't know if I'd say technical.

It's probably confusing to say it

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that way, but taxes would differ.

Yeah, it's just that they're.

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Yeah, they're not technical know.

So that's not a bad,

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bad way to describe it.

But they're tactical and that

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like you described they have they

have their set game plan and

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they don't know about where the

buyer is coming from or where

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the buyer is going to. Right.

And that's a big problem for

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context in how they're deploying

their game plan. Right.

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And you've got typically you're

going to have multiple ISPs or

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buyer personas, whatever the

company happens to call them.

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And they've got to understand

who they are.

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What do they care about. Right.

What what are the things in their

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world that whatever product or

service we're selling can impact?

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And why?

What are the use cases and the

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problems that current customers

that do the same, that are in the

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same job role are, are solving for?

And why are they buying?

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And you bring all of that and you

package it in a way that sellers

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can digest and make conversational

prospects. Notice Prospects.

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Yes, we've heard this over and

over and over again.

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They notice that kind of discovery

meeting and they appreciate it.

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It's much more intentional, much more

personalized. So let's get into it.

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And a lot stickier too. Yes, yes.

Um, you know, there's a lot probably

301

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probably when it gets down to it,

just because you're building so

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much more trust in those,

in those interactions.

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Um, and then your, the trust that

you build is being delivered on,

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um, so your, your,

your framework, your, your um,

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your thinking in terms of uh, the,

the revenue, um, what did you call

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the buyer's journey enablement?

I call it customer journey

307

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enablement. Okay.

So let's talk about that framework.

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What does that look like and how

is it different?

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I mean, we know probably we don't

need to talk about how it's different

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because we know it's pretty very

different, right, than what the

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current salespeople are doing.

But how are you getting salespeople

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to shift to this new mentality?

Well, when I talk about customer

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journey enablement,

that's more than just the sales

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teams as we talked about.

Yeah, but but to answer your

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question Any major change like

we're talking about here, whether

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it's in how they're prospecting,

how they're doing, discovery,

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how they're negotiating, anything has

to come with executive sponsorship,

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whether you've got a chief sales

officer or a CRO and EVP of sales,

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whoever that highest sales leader is,

this needs to be something that

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they see the need for,

and that is then going down through

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the frontline sales leaders.

Because one of the things I

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learned very quickly when I

moved into enablement is nobody

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in sales reported to me anymore,

and they didn't have to do

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anything that I suggested.

And so so making sure that we've

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got that we're working with the

sales leadership team, frontline

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through executives is critical

to driving any of these changes.

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It's just that simple. Yeah.

Yeah. Makes the best. Enablement.

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The world will do nothing if sales.

If they have to listen. Right. Yeah.

329

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That's right, that's right Yeah.

It's got to come back to a business

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outcome that's driven from

leadership. Exactly. Um, yeah.

331

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Okay. So, so so how how are you?

Let's describe your customer

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journey enablement framework.

Um, take us into take us into that

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and tell us kind of how that works.

We've covered a lot of it with

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some of your other questions.

Uh, because again,

335

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the way I look at it is you talk to

the beginning of the conversation

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about companies needing to have

mapped out that customer journey

337

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or by your journey. Right.

So let's assume they've done that.

338

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Then what we're doing and it's

those teams.

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It's marketing, it's rev ops,

it's enablement.

340

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Looking at that and sales

leadership at some point as well.

341

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But looking at that and figuring out

what those touch points are. Um.

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Figuring out what could we be

doing better. Right.

343

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So we've already talked about a

different kind of discovery,

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a different kind of prospecting,

a different kind of. Right.

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Um, how do we.

And then and then how are we

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going to plug those gaps?

You can't do everything all at once,

347

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but you can get a lot done when

you're doing it coordinated

348

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across multiple teams.

So I don't have a standard

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framework lead just from the

standpoint that although there

350

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are many commonalities,

when I come into an organization,

351

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there are still enough differences

that a deep assessment is is

352

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always what I recommend before

we start building anything,

353

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let's go in and let's.

So that's usually the first step

354

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I will do.

I you know, they'll give me

355

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access to gong or chorus.

They'll give me access to

356

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Salesforce can be accessed,

you know and I will interview.

357

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Very. Comfortable. Yeah.

And then I'll come back to the

358

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executive team with a recommendation.

Say, you know, here here's a Swot

359

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analysis kind of a funnel right.

Here's a Swot analysis high level.

360

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Here are the here's your biggest

thing I see the impacting revenue.

361

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Here are the next three things.

Here's what you can do about it.

362

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Right.

And I and my idea is that if

363

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I've done a great job, hopefully

they'll keep me around and pay me

364

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to help them execute all this.

But I also promise my clients to give

365

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them a standalone analysis that they

can take and execute on their own.

366

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Maybe they can execute, but, uh, um,

so so that's part of the framework

367

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too, is, is honestly figuring out

what's going on within those revenue

368

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and go to market teams that's causing

the problems that we're seeing.

369

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So so when you're you're looking

at all these organizations,

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what you see patterns and everything,

what's something that sales and

371

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marketing teams could do right now

to sort of adopt this methodology,

372

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this, this idea, um.

If, if you don't have or if they

373

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don't have a well-defined ICP

buyer persona.

374

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And by that I'm talking a profile,

fully developed profile, um,

375

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background.

You know what they do,

376

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what a day in the life looks like.

Again, problems that they are

377

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current customers in that role

are solving with what you sell,

378

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what the company sells.

Uh, you get the if you don't have

379

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that well defined and worked

with enablement or worked with

380

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somebody to give it to the sales

people in a digestible way.

381

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So that is battle cards?

Maybe, but it's also are your

382

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outbound scripts and anything you're

writing for them speak that way.

383

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Does your website speak that way so

that the salespeople are being set

384

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up for that kind of conversation?

That's where it begins.

385

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If you don't have those buyers

figured out and your salespeople

386

00:21:58,820 --> 00:22:01,400

trained on how to talk to them

at a business level, yeah.

387

00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:04,760

Anything else that I'm going to talk

about isn't going to work. Yeah.

388

00:22:05,390 --> 00:22:09,200

So then let's flip it on its head.

What what is at least something

389

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they should stop doing?

Stop defaulting to a demo on the

390

00:22:14,870 --> 00:22:18,590

very first call. Yeah.

And and and to be fair and SAS,

391

00:22:18,590 --> 00:22:22,070

we've done it to ourselves now

customers expect it. Yeah.

392

00:22:22,070 --> 00:22:25,760

But I've also it's rare to run

into a customer who when you

393

00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:28,790

explain again you're not going

to play 20 questions with them,

394

00:22:28,790 --> 00:22:32,210

but you explain the purpose of the

conversation and they can see that

395

00:22:32,210 --> 00:22:35,780

it's actually a conversation with

some intelligence behind it. Sure.

396

00:22:35,930 --> 00:22:38,750

Um most of if there are serious

buyer,

397

00:22:38,750 --> 00:22:41,900

most of them will appreciate that.

Even if they say, well,

398

00:22:41,900 --> 00:22:44,390

I was expecting a demo.

This is where I talk about we got to

399

00:22:44,390 --> 00:22:48,440

make sure we're all working together.

When marketing has got the stars

400

00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:50,150

and bidders report to marketing

a lot of times.

401

00:22:50,150 --> 00:22:53,300

So what is the what are those

bidders setting for expectations

402

00:22:53,300 --> 00:22:55,490

when they create the appointment

and they're setting up for a demo,

403

00:22:55,490 --> 00:22:58,580

or they setting an expectation

that this will be a conversation

404

00:22:58,580 --> 00:23:00,920

about your business?

Everybody's got to be setting

405

00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:04,550

the sales team up to do that.

But that's the biggest thing is stop

406

00:23:04,550 --> 00:23:08,390

default, because without knowing

what that prospect is dealing with

407

00:23:08,390 --> 00:23:11,510

and what they're looking for,

you're just throwing a lot of,

408

00:23:11,510 --> 00:23:14,630

you know what at the wall. Yeah.

And watching to see what sticks.

409

00:23:14,630 --> 00:23:17,300

If we're honest, that's all.

That's all a demo is without

410

00:23:17,300 --> 00:23:19,730

intelligence first. Yeah, right.

That makes sense.

411

00:23:20,180 --> 00:23:25,280

Um, if so, you know, maybe to round

this out, talking about, you know,

412

00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:29,330

measuring success or or even

reporting, it seems like there would

413

00:23:29,330 --> 00:23:33,830

be a mechanism, you know, like,

for my own, for my own knowledge.

414

00:23:33,830 --> 00:23:37,070

I'm interested to know Um,

about sales enablement.

415

00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:39,770

Um,

in terms of how you're communicating,

416

00:23:39,770 --> 00:23:43,460

what value that's bringing, right.

You mentioned how, you know,

417

00:23:43,460 --> 00:23:45,830

you're measuring certain things

and you're being able to report

418

00:23:45,830 --> 00:23:50,180

what does that look like?

It's gotten a lot easier to do

419

00:23:50,180 --> 00:23:52,310

because of technology that's

come on the scene in the last

420

00:23:52,310 --> 00:23:55,130

couple of years.

By calling in to emphasize only

421

00:23:55,130 --> 00:23:57,380

sellers generate revenue,

enablement teams do not.

422

00:23:57,380 --> 00:24:01,340

Marketing teams do not generate

actual revenue, but they both need

423

00:24:01,340 --> 00:24:03,980

to be able to show correlation,

reasonable, consistent correlation

424

00:24:03,980 --> 00:24:07,820

to that revenue increase.

And when I started trying to

425

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figure out how to do that before

the technology existed, uh,

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a mentor of mine, a guy who's, uh,

led for 3 or 4 successful exits.

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So he knows a thing or two, right.

Uh, recommended a book to me called

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the strategy Focused Organization.

It's Harvard Business Press.

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Kaplan and Norton are the authors,

and it's a little dated,

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but the concepts are not.

And and the and what Kaplan and

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Norton tried to solve with this myth.

And it does read like a textbook

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because they're professors.

But what they were trying to

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solve for was a dilemma.

I imagine that you've seen

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multiple times.

I definitely have companies roll

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out a grand strategy,

and six months later nobody

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could tell you what it was,

much less any measurable results.

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That's what they were trying to

solve for.

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And they do that by creating a

strategy that starts with

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revenue outcomes.

And every element of the strategy is

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building and connecting back to that.

I mean, I'm super simplifying this,

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but sure.

Um, and also there's a balanced

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scorecard for every element of

that strategy.

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You are setting a goal,

a measurable metric of

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improvement for every element of

the strategy might be monthly.

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I have found quarterly is about

the right cadence to, you know,

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change those and you're

measuring the success of that.

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And if you've built the map correctly

and you're and you're making those

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measurable improvements in every map

of this element of the strategy map,

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the revenue will take care of itself.

So that's how we did do it.

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Now again,

there is some great software out

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there for enablement teams to use.

Now that also ties into

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Salesforce or Dynamics.

and you can track things that the

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sellers and the customer service team

are doing, success team are doing,

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and measure it back to those

Salesforce revenue numbers.

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That's made it a lot easier.

So for me, it's probably a blend

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of both of those right now,

because if you don't start with

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the strategy map, you still

don't know what you're going to

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measure in the technology piece.

So yeah, that's right. That's right.

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Well, this has been a great

conversation. Thanks, Paul.

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Yeah, thanks a lot packed in here.

And so anybody that's tuning into

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sales enablement for for the first

time just hit repeat and listen

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to this again because we've just

covered a lot of ground.

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And I think there's a lot of

rabbit trails that you can take

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off of this conversation.

Oh we could do a few episodes.

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Definitely. Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

So if I want to send people your way,

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where do I send them?

Uh, they can go to the website,

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00:26:19,030 --> 00:26:22,090

book an appointment with me

directly through the website, or.

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00:26:22,090 --> 00:26:24,850

I'm, I'm, well,

easy to find on LinkedIn,

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00:26:24,850 --> 00:26:28,030

fairly pretty active on LinkedIn.

And always happy to hear from people

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that way as well. That's awesome.

Thanks again, Paul, and we'll have to

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have you back All right. Thanks, Lee.