Growing Sales: The Oxygen of Your Organization with Dominik Tarolli, Founder of WinInTheUSA.com

In this episode of "Exploring Growth," host Lee Murray chats with Dominik Tarolli about creating an effective sales process, or "sales machine." They explain how many businesses lack a formal sales plan, which leads to inefficiencies. He advocates for a systematic approach to sales, focusing on understanding customer needs, building trust, and the importance of follow-ups. 

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Go here: https://www.harvardmurray.com/exploring-growth-podcast

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Lee - https://www.linkedin.com/in/leehmurray
Dominik - https://www.linkedin.com/in/dominiktarolli/

#ExploringGrowthPodcast #BusinessInsights #EntrepreneurialJourney #BusinessExpansion #EmbracingGrowth #MarketingTalk #DominikTarolli #WinInTheUSA #SalesMachine

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And usually what we are seeing

is like 92%.

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And we have now, to be honest,

is they don't have a detailed

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sales plan.

So we're like, oh,

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let's try a little bit Facebook.

Let's try a little bit content,

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let's try a little bit this and that.

But they're not really focusing

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on like a sales machine.

And I'm so passionate, uh,

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about setting up a sales machine.

And the sales machine basically means

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a sales system where you always do

the same things over and over again.

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Welcome back to Exploring Growth.

Today, I have the privilege of

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sitting down with Dominique Torelli,

entrepreneur,

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founder of when in the USA.

Com and overall sales Wizard, which

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you're going to see in a minute.

Um, Dominique is a passionate

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about helping entrepreneurs

break through limitations,

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unlock their full sales potential.

Welcome to the show, Dominique.

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Thank you so much for having me and

good to connect with you again.

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So thank you. Yeah, Likewise.

Um, and as we were just talking,

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I know you have a resource that

you want to share at the end, so,

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you know, stick around because you

want to see why we have the resource.

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But it's a great resource, uh,

for everyone and watching.

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Um, when we were talking before,

you know, I'll kind of tell you,

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like, I have a little bit of a

background in sales and then

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probably equally sales and marketing

now at this point in my career.

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But something that's always sort of

stuck with me about sales over the

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years is that it's like this idea

of selling sales cures. All right.

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Um, and I'm not sure if that's

entirely true because there are

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legal problems that probably

sales can't fix.

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Um, but for the most part,

I subscribe to this because there's

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not a lot of problems that revenue,

new revenue won't fix.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, the thing is pretty clear.

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I mean,

two thirds of all bankruptcies

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are based on low to no customers.

So it's really like that's the

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number one business killers is

allowed to know sales.

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And and if you think about it,

everything is sale, right.

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It's it's not just going out there

and knocking on doors and say like,

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would you like to buy my pen?

Or it's it's literally everything.

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Whether you are at the, uh,

in a bank, whether you're

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talking with your children,

whether you're getting like a

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nice dinner in a restaurant.

So everything is sale and you're

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absolutely right.

I mean, once you have sales, that

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solves like 80% of all your problems.

And then you're right,

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there's some some other things

that you have to fix at all.

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But it's it's like really sales

is really it's also hard.

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We have we have to admit it here.

It's it's not easy.

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But I think I have some ideas

how I can optimize. People say.

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Yeah, I think you do too.

Um, you know,

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I think a lot of companies

succeed if they have a founder,

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um, or CEO that is sales centric.

Um, it's just natural for them to

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be always selling the company.

Um, and I think in that second stage,

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if someone, you know,

CEO that's more marketing center,

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it's going to be of more value to.

But for those that are kind of sales

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averse or don't really understand how

to to go about getting new sales, it

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can it can definitely be really hard.

And I want to jump into all of this.

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So before we do that,

tell everybody a little bit

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about you, your background.

Uh, I know we talked about,

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you know, you're an entrepreneur,

you founded companies.

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Tell us a little bit about you.

So we have context to your ideas.

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Yeah, absolutely.

So so my funny accent comes from

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Switzerland.

So I was raised and born in

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Switzerland.

I had a degree in economics,

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then built the biggest startup

initiative in Switzerland, was a

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huge deal. We wanted. Against what?

Basically David against Goliath.

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It was a $60 million deal and we

were the underdog,

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had no chance. We want it.

And it was back in the day when

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entrepreneurship was not cool.

I that was back in the day when

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Accenture and McKinsey and Arthur

Andersen and all these people were

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like, on top of everybody's mind.

And I went in literally every

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university and university of

applied science in Switzerland

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and went in there and said, like,

hey, there is a second way to

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success outside of consulting,

so you can build your own company.

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And that went on and on.

And we have now this amazing

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boom in Switzerland of startups,

even, even unicorn.

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But then at one point people

were asking me,

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you're always talking about startups

and building your own company.

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Have you actually ever done it

before?

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And I was like, oh my goodness,

that's such a good question.

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I know I haven't. But.

I was just passionate about it and I

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was doing it all, all the way long.

But then it's like I built a company

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together with with amazing founders

from Switzerland, number one

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Technology University called ETH.

It's always in the top ten

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universities among MIT or Stanford.

And we build a company called

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procedural that had a software that

created 3D virtual cities faster than

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any other software in the world,

and we got picked up immediately

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from Hollywood.

So we the software was used in Pixar

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Cars two in Madagascar, three,

Incredibles, it's Independence Day,

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Game of Thrones.

So whenever you basically see a

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virtual city in a Hollywood movie,

there is a high chance that it's

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created with our software.

And then we we raise money.

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We made it profitable within three

years based on a sales workflow that

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we can talk about it afterwards

and that I recommend also to,

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to to my companies now.

But we're profitable.

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And once your cash flow positive,

everything changes because then

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you either can do it yourself,

you can get new investment or

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you get acquired.

And at the end of the day, we found

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this amazing company called ESRI,

which is one of the largest private

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software companies in the world doing

maps and is there over 55 years,

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still private, same owner.

And then we got acquired.

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And with that, I basically went

over to beautiful California.

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You can see it in the background.

We have this amazing weather and

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beautiful palms and everything.

And I work now for for ESRI.

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And on the side I'm helping because

I'm very passionate about that.

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Small businesses, startups,

but also big companies to optimize

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their sales. So that's in a nutshell.

Yeah that's amazing.

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And I know that pretty much everyone

listening, unless they are the

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smaller percentage that has all

figured sales out and they're,

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you know, off to the moon,

everyone is always has some kind

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of trouble with sales.

So you know, thinking about the small

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to mid-sized companies who are sales,

maybe sales first or they need.

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They really do need sales.

I also have sort of B2B in mind.

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Um, where would you say,

like where would you start with

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a company like that?

Because, you know, all these

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companies that are listening,

they I'm sure they either have a

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sales team that's not working,

it's not hitting their numbers.

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It has no direction.

Um, you know, maybe they haven't

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honed in their target audience or,

you know, fit.

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Product market fit isn't

completely there.

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Um, I mean, there's a whole host

of problems that I could give.

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Um, what's the first thing that

you do when you work with, uh,

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companies like this?

Yeah, that's such a good question.

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Uh, Lee and and usually it's not

the what?

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So people are doing different things.

It's the how, how they're doing it.

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Okay,

give me a let me give you an analogy.

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I mean, we all can play tennis,

but we cannot play like Roger

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Federer, for example.

We can all ski,

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but not like the best.

So we are doing the same thing,

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but we're doing it differently.

And usually what we are seeing

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is like 92%.

And we have now to be honest, is they

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don't have a detailed sales plan.

So we're like, oh,

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let's try a little bit Facebook.

Let's try a little bit content.

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Let's try a little bit this and that.

But they're not really focusing

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on like a sales machine.

And I'm so passionate, uh,

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about setting up a sales machine.

And the sales machine basically means

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a sales system where you always do

the same things over and over again.

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And this is so important because 80%,

80% of sales is personal behavior.

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Do I send that follow up email?

Do I really prepare for it?

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Do I mean, I go in meetings and

people are not prepared at all?

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They didn't even have looked up my

LinkedIn profile and say, what is

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like important for that person?

Because our Or our own interest

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is always ourselves,

but in sales it's the other side.

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You have to understand, Lee,

what really drives you?

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How can I capture your attention?

And in these days, it's like.

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I mean, we have an attention span of

8.25 seconds these days. Probably.

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It's probably going down every day.

Goes down. Yeah.

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Do you know what goldfish does

have attention span. Maybe nine.

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Nine seconds.

So it's like we have less

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attention span than a goldfish.

So to really capture the

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attention is number one.

And then number two is building

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trust.

And that's it's really building

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trust is something if we connect

with each other.

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And I really understand what you

want to do and where you want to go.

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And if I stand your problem and

I have a solution,

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then I earn your business.

And that's really the whole

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context of the sales machine.

And I'm so passionate about building

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these sales machine so that you

have the standards so that you

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have the behaviors so that you can

predict which sales you are doing.

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And then always measuring,

always measuring whether something

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is working because the market is

changing all the time. Right.

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And what was working yesterday

will not work tomorrow.

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So therefore building these

sales machines with with the

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small business and startup is

always my number one focus.

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And then one last thing is like the

fast and least expensive way to

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double your sales is focusing on

your best customers or prospects.

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Which means the more time you

spend with your dream customer or

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dream prospects, the faster and

the more sales you will make.

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It's easy,

but it's really it's an art.

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So most of them is same thing, but

they're doing it not in perfection.

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It sounds a lot like an art and

a science kind of put together,

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because the first part of what

you're saying is a system.

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It's very systematic.

You do the same thing all the time.

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That's a machine.

But then there's this behavior part

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of it that it's like you have to put

a little bit of who you are to the,

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to the back and say,

I need to follow the process, right,

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to get your to get you there.

But then you need to bring that

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back in those instances where it

matters and it's trusting the

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process and then trusting

yourself in those instances.

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Uh, it's it's a I think it's a

marriage of art and science.

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And I think it's.

Absolutely, absolutely.

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There's this amazing meme or,

or, uh, video out there of a,

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of a of a money blowing machine,

you know, where you're in the booth,

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and then it's just money coming

all over, and there is one person,

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so they compare it.

One person is just trying to do

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everything.

And and then at the end he is ending

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up with, with 2 or 3 bills in there.

And then just somebody stands

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just there and, and it's blowing.

And he's, he has a plan,

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he knows what to do.

And at the end all the dollars

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are basically in front of him.

And he went out with the hunter.

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So it's really doing a few

things a thousand times instead

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of doing a thousand times,

a thousand things a few times.

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So it's that's that's literally

the difference.

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And that's what I'm working with

businesses all over the world to

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really focus. Yeah.

On the on the best buyer so they

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can spend more time measure it

and doing it over and over again.

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Yeah, I have to say I'm I'm the

worst at that.

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I over the years I think

distraction I get distracted by

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so many opportunities. Right.

Because someone will come in front of

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you and they'll have an opportunity

for you, and there's money on the

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table and you want to take it.

And I think that's where a lot of

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startups and small businesses go

awry, and how they never grow because

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they get spread too wide or too thin,

and they're hiring around and

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creating systems around stuff

where they are not focused.

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And my I think the problem that

I have as an entrepreneur is

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that I'm an entrepreneur.

I have the idea,

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I have the the vision,

and I can see where this would go.

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But that becomes a problem for

me whenever I need to not have

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the next idea.

And I did stop and focus on the

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one thing that I'm doing and

have it actually scale and go in

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a unidirectional. Yeah.

And you're mentioning such,

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such a great thing.

It's about usually people are

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either strategic or tactical. Okay.

And on the one side, seeing where we

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want to go and then doing it over

and over again, that's basically

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what most people struggle with.

And then keeping the focus and I

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mean, Lee, just just between you

and me, the, the, the numbers of

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time that I have just to give

confidence to people and say like,

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no, no, no, it will work.

Just keep on another month,

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another month and another month

and then you will see results.

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Because we we all expect results

like immediately.

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And they don't understand that

we are building up trusts and

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that takes time.

So when I usually start with

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with with companies, I say like,

hey, don't expect anything

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within the first 4 or 5 months.

If it's coming in, it's okay,

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but don't expect anything.

And we set up a plan for the

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first six months so that they're

not getting nervous at all.

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If there's like in months two,

there's nothing, nothing,

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no sales are coming and said,

hey, that's part of the process.

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You're good. All will be good.

It will come in month 4 or 5.

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But you know what that sounds

like to me as an entrepreneur is

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that sounds boring.

And I honestly think I honestly

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think that's a major piece that

trips up people like me, because I

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want it to be interesting, right?

To the nature of what I'm doing here.

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Like I'm exploring growth,

right? I want to talk to boring.

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Boring is always the best for me

as an entrepreneur.

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Yeah, if it's boring and money's

just coming in, yes,

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I'm completely good with it.

But you are mentioning also one

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thing that's really,

really crucial for sales.

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So not be interesting,

but be interested.

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And that's really the key.

And that's really I don't have

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to be interesting.

I don't care whether I'm

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interesting or not.

It's like I have to be

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interested in you and understand

what you really want to do.

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And and then I can earn your trust.

And then at the end of the day,

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all sort of sales. Yeah.

You're getting to something else we

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talked about when we were introduced

and that's the um, like who's the

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person in the role of sales. Right.

So you're getting to kind of like

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one thing that I love and, uh,

have adopted is a disc person.

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The disc, um, I don't know if you

use that at all, but um. Oh, 100%.

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And, uh,

you want to introduce the concept or.

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Well, I think it's such an

interesting concept because you

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have these four different, um,

sort of behavior types, uh,

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dominant influencer, um,

submissive and calculating. Cautious.

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Yeah, yeah. Steady and cautious.

And I, you know, I'm, they say

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you a little bit. What are you.

Because I'm an I, I see, so I'm,

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like, at odds with myself all

the time where I again,

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I kind of I constantly want to

explore a new ideas and then

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build systems around them,

which is a weird thing because I want

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one of them eats the other. Right?

So is this constant like devil, devil

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angel thing going on in my head?

Are you are you creating a lot

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of projects all the time or can

you stick with one?

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Well, so actually, uh, I mean,

you hit it right on the head,

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like, for a long time.

I was always jumping from one

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project to the next.

And that kind of gets to my

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point of being bored.

I don't like being bored.

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Um, which is such a weird concept of,

like how that's such a big thing,

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right?

Um, but recently, in the last

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couple of years, I've really been

trying to hold myself accountable

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to sticking with one thing and

seeing it all the way through.

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Um, and it it is not easy, right?

I mean, it's it's similar to like

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weight loss program or get trying to

start working out and following a

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program and not seeing the results

you want for a little while.

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It's very similar because it's

boring, right?

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You want to see results,

you want to move on.

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And again it's it's it's it's

it's 80% of sales.

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Success is personal behavior.

It's it's not about knowing the

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right tactics or using the I know

it's it's personal behavior.

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Can I manage the person in the

mirror and say like, no,

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you have to send a follow up email.

No, you have to pick up the phones

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and, and contact somebody because

nothing, nothing will happen if

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you're not getting in contact.

And we're most of the time in

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our own head and think, yes,

should be and what should be,

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and not going out there and talking

and collecting. What if we do.

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It this way this time, or what?

Do we try this, right.

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That's what that's what gets me.

Because being in marketing and I'm

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big in the marketing strategy,

you know, who would have guessed I,

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I see all the pathways that we could

take, and I want to try them all

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because I want to see what they do.

But in marketing,

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you get feedback sometimes

quicker than you do with sales.

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Um,

and depending on what you're doing.

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And,

and that just doesn't work for me.

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Like I, I, I want it to be

interesting and, and not boring.

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And when it gets boring, it's like,

well, yeah, it probably will work.

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And I do believe you that it

will work, but I'm not going to

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be around for it to work. Yeah.

And to, to, to close the circle

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with the disc system.

So it's a personality test.

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And in sales we see uh,

the best salespeople.

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So really superstars that are

outperform any other salespeople are

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the one with the high dominance,

but then also with influence.

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So what does that actually mean.

So it means I want to prove

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myself with confidence that I

can close anybody and I don't I

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wouldn't want to give up.

So I follow up all the time.

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I'm really have this personal

kind of ambition.

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I'm passionate, I want to do that.

but then also I can connect with

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people.

If you just have dominance,

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then it's usually they don't

connect with people.

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And you need also to schmooze a

little bit with with people to

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understand them and really be

interested in them.

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And not just, uh, interesting.

So that's, that's basically to

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close that circle with the disc.

I've met a lot of salespeople

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that fit that description.

Those are the ones that just

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naturally rise to the top.

It doesn't matter what they're

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selling. Um, and you know why?

Why is that?

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Because they can show empathy.

And we all, like, nobody likes to

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be sold. I mean, that's right.

If you sold me as a no,

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I don't want to do that.

But if you educate me,

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if you earn my trust,

then I will definitely buy from you.

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And I'm just in the market here

for a new HVAC system.

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And I have this fantastic,

this fantastic HVAC guy called

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Nick Hellenic.

If you're if you're listening

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and watching it to it and I he.

He always treated me so good.

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I have such a high trust.

And I will go with whatever he

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will recommend.

I don't care whether it's 2000

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and $3,000 more expensive.

If Nick is recommending me that,

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then I'll do it.

And that's he has my attention,

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he has my trust, and then price is

really in the background and and

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that's really that lesson from

from we don't like to be sold,

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but we like to be educated and

we like to have trust and we buy

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from people that we actually like.

Yeah, I believe we believe that 100%.

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And as you're saying,

that makes me think, um,

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I've always heard that salespeople

are the easiest ones to be sold.

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So do you think that that's what's

happening with Nick or or does he

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just have a good sales process?

Yeah, yeah.

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And again, it's, it's that the

biggest problems that we see in the,

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in the market is these days.

Attention.

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How can I go through the noise.

And there are certain techniques

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that that I teach and I go through,

but it's mainly about basically

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shifting the selling criteria.

So if I go to you,

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Lea and just say like, hey, buy,

buy, buy, used like, no, thank you.

335

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And there is this dirty little

secret out there.

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Have you ever heard of the

buyers pyramid? Lee? No.

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So the buyers pyramid,

if we would ask now your audience

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who is currently in the market.

Oh, yes. Yeah.

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Yeah,

I haven't been I haven't heard it

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been called the Buyers Pyramid, but.

Yeah, I know what you're talking

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about. Yeah, yeah.

At every moment in time,

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there's only between 3 and 7% of your

dream cost that the perfect dream.

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Because just three and 7% are

buying right now. Yeah. Others are.

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They just thought they don't need

anything in the next 2 or 3 years.

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They don't know where they need.

So instead of just selling and saying

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like buy, buy, buy cheaper, cheaper,

cheaper, I try now to educate

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people so that 100% think like,

oh that, that's that's interesting.

348

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I want to I want to know more

about that.

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And that's also a company that I

work with.

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It's in the IT services industry.

And, you know,

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IT services is basically a

commodity these days. Yeah.

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And if you just go out there and

say like, oh, I'm cheaper and I

353

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can do this and that,

that's not going to work.

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00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:40,380

But if you basically would go out

there and go to CIO, so you go up

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00:21:40,380 --> 00:21:44,550

the value letter and say like, hey,

I have the five most dangerous

356

00:21:44,550 --> 00:21:48,450

trends for CIO these days.

Did you know that there are more

357

00:21:48,450 --> 00:21:52,710

regulation than ever?

There are like for every cybercrime,

358

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you can get up to $100 million in,

in in damage in their.

359

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Did you know that that AI is

eating up the whole market.

360

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So if you start to to educate

them interesting.

361

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And then they start listening to

you and then you can establish a

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relationship,

that's how you build up trust.

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And whenever that person or that CIO

is in the market, you said, I didn't.

364

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We have that amazing conversation,

Conversationally.

365

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I will call Lee and see if he

has a solution for me.

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So that's basically shifting the

buying criteria instead of making

367

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just more noise, more noise,

more noise, you start to educate,

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build the trust, and then you

can close the sales. Yeah, 100%.

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And that's a lot of what we help

our clients do to is, is, uh,

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long form content, short form

content through the buyer's journey,

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you know, uh, supporting all of

those points of engagement,

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trying to drive up engagement,

drive through conversion,

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through that journey so that when

they're it's ready for a sales

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conversation, it can be influenced

so that timing can be influenced.

375

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Um, you know, as a quicker to so

they're sort of in market,

376

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but now they're really in market.

Uh, or if they're in market, um,

377

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that, that, that they'll remember.

They will remember you and say like,

378

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oh, I know Lee, he's in that market.

Let's see what, what he has to say.

379

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And that's. Yeah, that's right.

It's such a great tool and such,

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such a great strategy.

Uh, to to do. Is? Yeah. If so, you.

381

00:23:16,900 --> 00:23:19,630

I know you have a sort of a

methodology or a framework that

382

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you use with your clients.

Um, walk us through some of that

383

00:23:23,380 --> 00:23:29,260

thinking, because I know that, um,

you know, sales teams probably know

384

00:23:29,260 --> 00:23:32,620

they should have a process and by but

de facto, they do have a process

385

00:23:32,620 --> 00:23:36,850

whether they think they do or not.

Um, but, you know, a good sales

386

00:23:36,850 --> 00:23:42,940

process is really going to be key to

increasing conversion for not only

387

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into the process but through to,

to, to the sale.

388

00:23:45,700 --> 00:23:49,570

So, um, yeah, talk to us about that.

Yeah, absolutely.

389

00:23:49,570 --> 00:23:54,460

And that how I cover it, it's,

it's total sales optimization and

390

00:23:54,460 --> 00:23:58,330

building this, uh, sales machine.

And again, at the beginning,

391

00:23:58,330 --> 00:24:04,150

it's it's about attention.

How can I get noticed by my dream

392

00:24:04,150 --> 00:24:08,680

customer and and you will laugh now,

but I'm starting to send out more and

393

00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:14,430

more physical letters through mail

and adding a little gift in there and

394

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sending that every one two weeks.

Or an example stopwatch I put in

395

00:24:18,690 --> 00:24:22,680

there a stopwatch and the clock

is ticking. Are you ready yet?

396

00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,530

Or a Rubik's cube?

Let me solve you this puzzle.

397

00:24:25,530 --> 00:24:29,610

And or are you puzzled about sales?

So I started really to send out

398

00:24:29,610 --> 00:24:33,900

physical letters. Why?

Because people don't get so many

399

00:24:33,900 --> 00:24:36,570

letters these. Days at all.

Yeah, yeah.

400

00:24:36,570 --> 00:24:39,870

And then if you have one and it's

it's well written and there is a

401

00:24:39,870 --> 00:24:43,350

little gift and it doesn't have

to be too big to gift or you

402

00:24:43,350 --> 00:24:46,590

don't want to bribe, it's just

something that's interesting.

403

00:24:46,590 --> 00:24:49,860

And then first they think like,

oh, Lee's crazy.

404

00:24:49,860 --> 00:24:52,440

Sending me a Rubik's Cube.

Well it does,

405

00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:54,810

it will raise their eyebrows.

They will think about you in a

406

00:24:54,810 --> 00:24:58,260

different way.

And then they after four times if you

407

00:24:58,260 --> 00:25:01,950

send it like for a month, they said

like why is he sending me again?

408

00:25:01,950 --> 00:25:04,770

And you know, and then after two

months, three months,

409

00:25:04,770 --> 00:25:08,910

people are calling you back and say,

hey, can you have this innovative

410

00:25:08,910 --> 00:25:11,940

kind of gifts in here?

And this is this campaign.

411

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Can you help us do the same?

Because we struggle with with

412

00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,990

getting the attention.

And then you start that process

413

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and then the the biggest thing is

once you have the attention you

414

00:25:22,740 --> 00:25:27,000

build now trust and you build

trust with educating people,

415

00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:31,860

not selling. Nobody likes to be sold.

Everybody likes to be educated.

416

00:25:31,860 --> 00:25:35,820

So people like to go on Amazon

and find out stuff and research

417

00:25:35,820 --> 00:25:39,540

and find the right kind of thing.

And that's basically the process that

418

00:25:39,540 --> 00:25:44,580

you have to do and how you do that.

I mean, just take a doctors as a role

419

00:25:44,580 --> 00:25:48,150

model. They ask a lot of questions.

So like, hey, in a perfect world,

420

00:25:48,150 --> 00:25:51,390

how would that look like?

What are you experiencing now?

421

00:25:51,390 --> 00:25:56,010

And then focus more on emotion

than really on the rational,

422

00:25:56,010 --> 00:25:59,940

because once you get their emotion,

they will buy everything.

423

00:25:59,940 --> 00:26:03,840

Like with Nick, my HVAC guy,

he has my heart so I will go

424

00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:06,480

with him. He can sell you your.

Next car as far as you're concerned.

425

00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:08,250

There you go.

If you tell me I have to buy

426

00:26:08,250 --> 00:26:10,280

that car, I would take that.

He would probably do it.

427

00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:14,600

Yeah, well that's. Not.

Not to miss one point on on what

428

00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:16,400

you're saying about it, because I

know you sent me something in the

429

00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:20,570

mail too, with a handwritten note.

You know, I, I have this on my desk,

430

00:26:20,570 --> 00:26:24,200

and I just went through, um,

my office kind of cleaning stuff out.

431

00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:27,230

But, you know,

this is this cost you money to print.

432

00:26:27,230 --> 00:26:30,770

Like, this is a legitimate piece of,

uh, a publication and a

433

00:26:30,770 --> 00:26:33,410

handwritten notes. Nice.

So I kept it on my desk. Right.

434

00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:38,030

Um, and I think that's a there's

a there's a piece of that nurture

435

00:26:38,030 --> 00:26:40,640

campaign you're talking about

that that's a real thing where

436

00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:42,950

if there's something physical

people don't want to throw out,

437

00:26:42,950 --> 00:26:45,410

they put it on their desk.

And actually, I was talking to a

438

00:26:45,410 --> 00:26:49,880

client the other day who had done

some direct mail, um, years ago,

439

00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:54,230

and one of her prospective

clients kept it literally on her

440

00:26:54,230 --> 00:26:58,430

desk for like, three years.

Yeah. And the need came up.

441

00:26:58,430 --> 00:27:01,940

She pulled it up, called her. And.

I mean, there's even calendars.

442

00:27:01,940 --> 00:27:06,290

I will probably now make some

calendars for my Swiss friends with.

443

00:27:06,290 --> 00:27:09,550

With beautiful pictures with

Palms and Sons from California.

444

00:27:09,580 --> 00:27:12,670

They will keep it on their desk and

they will say, because they always

445

00:27:12,670 --> 00:27:16,210

have like snow and bad weather.

They will keep that on their desk

446

00:27:16,210 --> 00:27:20,620

and whenever they have nieces.

Oh, it's right in front here.

447

00:27:20,620 --> 00:27:25,210

And you had this amazing podcast

about an entrepreneur who who

448

00:27:25,210 --> 00:27:27,940

has that mailing business.

So these days it's really easy

449

00:27:27,940 --> 00:27:30,850

to do the mailing.

And I was like, oh my goodness,

450

00:27:30,850 --> 00:27:33,850

that's so genius.

I missed that option with the gift.

451

00:27:33,850 --> 00:27:36,130

I think I have to contact that,

that person.

452

00:27:36,130 --> 00:27:40,150

But if you just can automate

basically mailings with gifts

453

00:27:40,150 --> 00:27:45,160

together, that's like sending out

emails, but with a actually an

454

00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:49,360

attention rate that is like three,

4 or 5 fold what you're usually

455

00:27:49,360 --> 00:27:52,780

getting with emails, it is.

And once again,

456

00:27:52,780 --> 00:27:55,330

we have the attention.

Once we have the trust,

457

00:27:55,330 --> 00:27:58,750

then it's about closing the deal

and closing the deal.

458

00:27:58,750 --> 00:28:02,110

It's not like back in the days where

it's like, sell me the pen, Lee,

459

00:28:02,110 --> 00:28:05,440

how can you sell me the pencil?

No. I don't want a pen.

460

00:28:05,740 --> 00:28:10,210

You don't want a pen.

And no, it's really about following

461

00:28:10,210 --> 00:28:14,950

up and really staying in contact.

So we know that 82% of all the

462

00:28:14,950 --> 00:28:19,330

sales are closed after or on the

fifth contact.

463

00:28:19,330 --> 00:28:21,640

And usually people make two

calls and say like, no,

464

00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,550

people are not interested,

so I will not contact them again.

465

00:28:24,550 --> 00:28:28,030

But you know, you these days you

have to be always on there.

466

00:28:28,030 --> 00:28:32,560

And, and I did a little research

myself just to understand how

467

00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:37,360

the best companies like Apple,

Bank of America or eBay, Amazon.

468

00:28:37,360 --> 00:28:40,810

How many times do they send me

an email? What would you guess?

469

00:28:40,930 --> 00:28:44,260

How many emails does Amazon send

me per month?

470

00:28:44,590 --> 00:28:53,470

Oh, probably 11A day or maybe 20,

25 to 3040 emails. Oh wow.

471

00:28:53,470 --> 00:28:56,290

So it's like they're all and

they know. What do they know?

472

00:28:56,290 --> 00:28:58,630

They know the fortune is in the

follow ups.

473

00:28:58,630 --> 00:29:02,410

Yeah eBay sent me 32 balls,

the brand 22.

474

00:29:02,410 --> 00:29:07,350

So they know if they're not

constantly in your inbox,

475

00:29:07,350 --> 00:29:12,510

you are busily you have stuff to do.

And if they're not constantly there,

476

00:29:12,510 --> 00:29:15,540

you're going with somebody else.

And that's one of the biggest.

477

00:29:15,540 --> 00:29:19,140

And closing the deal is really

about the follow. Up follow up.

478

00:29:19,290 --> 00:29:22,140

The fortune is in the follow up

and that's so easy.

479

00:29:22,140 --> 00:29:25,530

And most people are just giving up

and say like, oh, I don't, I don't

480

00:29:25,530 --> 00:29:28,380

want to annoy you anybody. And yeah.

Maybe they don't want to buy

481

00:29:28,380 --> 00:29:33,540

after all. Yeah, I, I'm not sure.

But being just constantly there and,

482

00:29:33,540 --> 00:29:38,040

and really helping them to understand

what you're doing and add you're

483

00:29:38,370 --> 00:29:41,940

adding value to their business

that that's the key and that's

484

00:29:41,940 --> 00:29:45,030

everything together is basically

building that sales machine.

485

00:29:45,030 --> 00:29:49,020

And then I'm meticulous in

measuring everything.

486

00:29:49,020 --> 00:29:54,060

And that's then at the end of the day

that's how sales are made. Yeah.

487

00:29:54,060 --> 00:29:57,090

And and that last piece you were

talking about, follow up is

488

00:29:57,090 --> 00:30:01,140

really the magic in all of it.

And that's such a natural thing

489

00:30:01,140 --> 00:30:07,520

for the the high D or the D in the

disc um assessment to do they they

490

00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:11,750

don't have a problem picking up the

phone or picking up email um and,

491

00:30:11,750 --> 00:30:15,620

and following up until the person

tells them to to get lost.

492

00:30:15,650 --> 00:30:18,590

I've seen, uh, you said 5 to 7

or something like that.

493

00:30:18,590 --> 00:30:22,760

I've seen 8 to 12 times.

Is is the actual, you know,

494

00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:25,520

so it's really a lot. Right.

Like you need to be following up

495

00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:28,880

until you, you get a no. Yeah.

Definitely.

496

00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:33,170

And that's where we're where I really

encourage people and give them the

497

00:30:33,170 --> 00:30:37,670

confidence to say no, no, no, no.

We are following up at least 12

498

00:30:37,670 --> 00:30:42,740

to 18 times because if you want

to be the 1%, you have to do what

499

00:30:42,740 --> 00:30:47,030

the other 99% are not doing.

And that's exactly how you're doing.

500

00:30:47,030 --> 00:30:49,910

You're being like very,

very friendly, very, very nice.

501

00:30:49,910 --> 00:30:53,540

You're always adding value,

but you're constantly showing

502

00:30:53,540 --> 00:30:56,210

how you can help.

And and that's how you can,

503

00:30:56,210 --> 00:30:59,690

can really, really earn their

business. Yeah. That's true.

504

00:30:59,690 --> 00:31:02,090

So now that we're kind of

towards the end.

505

00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,190

I know at the beginning we said,

you have a resource.

506

00:31:04,190 --> 00:31:07,010

Tell us about your resource.

Yes, yes.

507

00:31:07,130 --> 00:31:11,480

So this is the Startup Secrets

Black Book.

508

00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:15,500

And it's basically for everybody

that wants to test a business

509

00:31:15,500 --> 00:31:19,940

idea or a business to see how you

actually can make money with it.

510

00:31:19,940 --> 00:31:23,990

And it's it's really you can read it

in two hours. It has seven tools.

511

00:31:23,990 --> 00:31:27,770

You're basically going through

seven tools to find whether you can

512

00:31:27,770 --> 00:31:31,580

make money with your idea or not.

And I make it a little bit

513

00:31:31,580 --> 00:31:35,030

entertaining.

So there is a story about how I

514

00:31:35,030 --> 00:31:39,020

met Gene Simmons from Kiss,

or how I was on a James Bond movie,

515

00:31:39,020 --> 00:31:41,270

Quantum of Solace, as an extra.

That's cool.

516

00:31:41,270 --> 00:31:45,080

So I add a lot of personal stories

in there so that you really can go

517

00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:50,360

through it in two hours and fill out

who is your your dream customer,

518

00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,930

what's the Swot analysis?

What's the go to market plan?

519

00:31:53,930 --> 00:31:55,880

What's your vision,

where you want to go?

520

00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:58,070

Then there's also an

entrepreneurial test.

521

00:31:58,070 --> 00:32:01,600

So it's like you can go through

it and it should be entertaining.

522

00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:05,920

And I wrote it during the Covid

lockdown and say like, hey,

523

00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:11,440

can I actually write a book and also

print it myself and then also sell it

524

00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:15,070

myself? And it was a huge success.

And here, by the way,

525

00:32:15,070 --> 00:32:17,980

nobody understand that.

I will change that in the second

526

00:32:17,980 --> 00:32:21,850

edition, but that should be

Steve Jobs as the start of main.

527

00:32:21,850 --> 00:32:27,700

So you see the the goggles and and

and hear his and it's, it's and

528

00:32:27,700 --> 00:32:31,750

that that's the amazing thing.

It was designed by Simon Otto.

529

00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:36,250

Hello. Simon.

Uh, he's the he was actually the,

530

00:32:36,250 --> 00:32:40,240

the lead animator for How to

Train Your Dragon 1 to 3.

531

00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:42,760

So he's a he's a big animator in

Hollywood.

532

00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:46,510

He's now directing the next

Netflix Christmas movie.

533

00:32:46,510 --> 00:32:49,180

He's currently in London and

he's a close friend.

534

00:32:49,180 --> 00:32:52,960

And therefore he he did me that,

uh, design with that cover.

535

00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:58,020

And if you want to have that for

the first ten people that actually

536

00:32:58,020 --> 00:33:01,530

contacted me on LinkedIn and said,

like, hey, please send me the book,

537

00:33:01,530 --> 00:33:04,740

send me just the address,

and I will send ten of these

538

00:33:04,740 --> 00:33:09,180

copies directly to them.

And for one, for the first one,

539

00:33:09,180 --> 00:33:13,590

I have a special surprise.

I have also a brand called It Can Be

540

00:33:13,590 --> 00:33:19,200

Sold. Cool. And that's a t shirt.

So for the first one who contacts me,

541

00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:24,300

then I will get, uh, also that t

shirt for that. That's great.

542

00:33:24,450 --> 00:33:26,580

Thanks for thanks for putting

that offer out there.

543

00:33:26,580 --> 00:33:29,190

And I'll, I'll link your, um,

LinkedIn bio there.

544

00:33:29,190 --> 00:33:32,010

You know, of course, a lot of these

things go out initially after

545

00:33:32,010 --> 00:33:35,640

published, um, Spotify and Apple,

but we put them on LinkedIn. So yeah.

546

00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:39,300

Yeah, I'm really passionate

about entrepreneurship.

547

00:33:39,300 --> 00:33:43,170

So I, I was very fortunate and

lucky to, to have done some,

548

00:33:43,170 --> 00:33:47,400

some businesses that I could sold.

I'm also investing I'm a limited

549

00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:51,840

partner in the venture capital fund.

So I was very fortunate in my life.

550

00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:54,450

And and for me,

it's now time to give something back.

551

00:33:54,450 --> 00:33:58,910

And I try to do it with knowledge.

So teach people how to fish instead

552

00:33:58,910 --> 00:34:03,590

of giving them yeah, fishes and that.

That's now my time to give really

553

00:34:03,590 --> 00:34:06,800

something back. And that's my thing.

If you have a better one,

554

00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:10,820

please let me know than than I will.

Well, we need people like you in the

555

00:34:10,820 --> 00:34:14,780

world are passionate about sales

because it is a it is a hard topic,

556

00:34:14,780 --> 00:34:17,480

I think, for a lot of business

owners and a lot of, you know,

557

00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:20,600

a lot of them fail because of it.

So, um, you know, that's great.

558

00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:23,390

And the thing is,

like once they they build a

559

00:34:23,390 --> 00:34:28,880

process and they know what to do,

it's really it will change the whole

560

00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:32,960

kind of mental frame of sales.

And I remember when I was at my

561

00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:38,180

first conference or tradeshow and

somebody just put me on, on the

562

00:34:38,180 --> 00:34:41,480

floor and said, like, now sell.

And I've sort of okay,

563

00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,360

what I'm doing.

But the more and more I design

564

00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:47,840

process around it and know,

like which questions are working,

565

00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:52,250

what is working, I get confidence.

And the more confidence I build up,

566

00:34:52,250 --> 00:34:56,300

the more fun it is.

I mean, if you can close like 40 to

567

00:34:56,300 --> 00:35:00,410

50% of all your sales in it, that's

fun. That's actually really fun.

568

00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:02,630

But you don't know it if you

don't train it.

569

00:35:02,630 --> 00:35:06,230

Therefore, I told you at the

beginning, it's not the what,

570

00:35:06,230 --> 00:35:10,310

it's the how you do it.

So it's not everybody's doing sales,

571

00:35:10,310 --> 00:35:12,530

but how you do it makes the

whole difference.

572

00:35:12,530 --> 00:35:16,340

And that's where I help startups

and small businesses, really,

573

00:35:16,340 --> 00:35:20,420

to create that sales machine so

that it's really becoming fun.

574

00:35:20,420 --> 00:35:24,590

And once you close 40 to 50%,

imagine how much fun that would be.

575

00:35:24,590 --> 00:35:27,350

Or if, you know. Yeah, people.

Sales every year.

576

00:35:27,950 --> 00:35:29,510

Think about what your friends

will say.

577

00:35:29,510 --> 00:35:32,900

Your friends are like,

you're crazy. How do you do that?

578

00:35:32,900 --> 00:35:36,800

And then it's all becoming like

this beautiful dance and game.

579

00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:39,830

We're just increasing and

growing like very, very,

580

00:35:39,830 --> 00:35:42,620

very fast. It's amazing.

Thanks so much for your time.

581

00:35:42,620 --> 00:35:46,550

This has been great. Yeah. Thank you.

It's always a pleasure connecting

582

00:35:46,550 --> 00:35:49,700

with you. All right. Thanks a lot.

We'll have you back some time.

583

00:35:50,210 --> 00:35:51,530

Thank you. Lee. Bye bye.