The Pivotal Point of Growth From Freelancer to Over $1 Million in Sales with Rey Ortega, CEO of Grata Software

In the week episode of our CEO series, host Lee Murray engages in a captivating discussion with Rey Ortega, founder of Grata Software, as he shares the journey from freelancing to a successful tech consulting firm. Learn about the importance of an engineering-first approach, building client relationships, and transitioning from engineering to leadership. Discover Grata Software's expansion plans and the new "Learn to Build a Business" program, designed to help small businesses and entrepreneurs. Tune in for insights on business fundamentals, mentorship, and transitioning to entrepreneurship!

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Go here: https://www.harvardmurray.com/exploring-growth-podcast

Connect on LinkedIn:

Lee - https://www.linkedin.com/in/leehmurray/

Rey - https://www.linkedin.com/in/rey-ortega-2774468/

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Then I just went cold turkey.
I literally went May 5th or sorry.

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May 1st of 2015 was the time
when I said, all right,

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instead of doing this on the side,
I'm doing this full time.

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And I made that leap and I had
just bought a house,

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so I had a new mortgage. Right.
Again, these medical bills come in.

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So it was stressful.
I would never,

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ever recommend anyone to do that.
This is our second episode from our

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CEO series, where I interview CEOs
from around Central Florida area.

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I sat down with Ray Ortega from
Granada Software,

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and he shared how he took his company
from just him as a freelancer to

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over $1 million in sales.
And we also talk about some new

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ideas he has for expansion.
This is part one of this interview.

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If you want to stick around for
part two, we go into a whole in

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depth conversation about I. Okay.
Welcome back to Exploring Growth.

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Today we have an interesting
story of a local Central Florida

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business that has recently expanded.
And I get to chat with Rey Ortega,

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founder of Grata Software.
Welcome, Ray.

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Hey, thank you for having me on,
I appreciate it. Yeah.

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I think, you know, I saw recent, LinkedIn posts that you had

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on LinkedIn about gratis software
expanding, and it just looked

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like the perfect time for me to, reach out, connect,

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explore what you what you're up to, and we were having a great,

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about AI right before this,

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so I want to get back into that.
Yeah, but, yeah.

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No, you know, this this whole
series about interviewing founders

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and CEOs around Orlando and just
getting to know what's going on,

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like, what are these companies that
are driving this local economy?

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What are they up to?
How are they growing?

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What hurdles have they had to
overcome?

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And so let's just start with Greta,
I want to I want to get to the

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things you're doing today.
Of course, but yeah.

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What makes it unique in the market?

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Who do you serve? What do you do?
I want to know everything.

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Okay, well, Greta,
software simply was just,

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Greta Software when I started it.
It was more of like a I was

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having issues at a job.
I was working at a job.

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And, and they were laying off
a bunch of people who are really,

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really smart people who I
thought were probably one of the

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best talents that we had.
And every time there's a photographer

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that used to come to my office,
he'd say, hey,

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so-and-so is persona non grata.
They just got released from the

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company.
And one day I said, man, I'm gonna

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come up with a company called grata.
So basically we, like,

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accept everyone as long as they we
don't care if they have quirks,

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if they don't meet,
like certain mold or whatever in

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the upper echelon, whatever.
Like they're they just have talent.

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We just want talent, so so that's kind of where

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the name Greta came from.
And, when I started,

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it was basically just me
freelancing at first.

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been one for over 25 years.

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in all different industries.

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And,
so I started off as a freelancer, and

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then obviously it started to grow.
So I had to start hiring people.

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And that's kind of how it became
a company.

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became a company that way.

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We're an engineering first
company focused on engineering,

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like, sales and everything else.

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One of the things I tell people is
that most companies that do what we

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do, they have a sales team that's
out there selling engineering or an

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engineering team out there selling,
because, you know, we have projects

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that we got engineer right?
That's right, that's right.

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And that's kind of how we we
focus everything.

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So we're a very boutique,
technology, consulting company.

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We work specifically with businesses
that are trying to emerge into this

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larger midsize, you know, large
size company, enterprise company.

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figuring out the technology they

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need in order to scale and grow.
So we come in, we do a full

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assessment of those companies.
We advise them on anything that

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we see that could be a benefit
to increasing their productivity

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through technology.
And then we architect them and

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then sometimes we'll implement the
solutions, sometimes they'll have

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their own teams implement them and
we'll just monitor and manage them.

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And it's very hands on.

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We work face to face with the
customers.

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clients a year.

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This year we've expanded to try
to take on a little bit more,

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but that's usually our numbers 5 to
6 because we're really hands on.

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We're working like a partner side
by side with these people. Yeah.

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Okay. So that's interesting.
So to get a little more specific,

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are you working are you building
software that I don't know,

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lives on their servers or are you
building web apps, mobile apps. Yeah.

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What specifically are you doing?
So I'm agnostic.

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It's a good question because
we're absolutely agnostic, okay.

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We're a solutions provider.
So what happens is, is,

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let me give you an example.
We had a client that came up to

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us that a year ago that they
were doing claims for FEMA.

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When there's a natural disaster,
FEMA would send them these

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insurance claims,
and then they would have their

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adjusters go out and do the claims.
When they came to us,

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they already had a platform in place.
However, it was a lot of manual

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processes throughout that platform.
We came in and we redesigned

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that whole platform to be a lot
more automated.

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That ties directly in with FEMA also has a mobile app that

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allows the adjusters to do all the
work on mobile apps, take photos.

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It puts that all into the same
system, and then essentially they can

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using a document management system,
we can send all these documents

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back up to FEMA for approval if
they get rejected.

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We have a whole process for that
and everything.

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And so when we built out this
whole platform originally,

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it was just to make their company
operate a lot more efficiently.

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Well, their company did ten times
better than everybody around them.

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And now FEMA is looking at this
platform as being the de facto

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standard for everybody else
who's in the industry.

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So that's just one small
solution for one company.

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And we've worked with dozens of
companies over ten years.

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We've worked I'd say the numbers
over 60 easily. So yeah.

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So various bespoke solutions.
Yes. Yeah.

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Specific to the company and
their industry.

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for us, especially me being a

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business guy, as we talked about
earlier, like we love business,

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right? We love entrepreneurship.
And business is I get to learn all

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these different industries, and I get
to learn about all these different

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businesses and how they make their
money and how they do their business.

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So yeah, that's the fun part.
That is the fun part.

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So along this path of growth,
you went from freelancer to more

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working to handle.
So you hire a team and you've got

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you got a legitimate company going.
What was the pivotal point of

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growth for Greta?
I mean, was there a or is it an

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inflection point that you can
point back to and say, yeah,

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that's where we took off? Absolutely.
The pivotal point was I had to

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step back from engineering.
So as a software engineer and a lot

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of engineers, you talk to a lot of
engineer entrepreneurs out there.

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They'll tell you the same thing.
Like it's really hard to step back.

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Yeah, especially because when you
love getting your hands there,

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you love doing the coding or you
love doing whatever it is. Yeah.

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So the pivotal point was me having
to step back, trust the team,

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hire a team and trust them that they,
you know, they always tell you hire

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people that are smarter than you. That that is so true.

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Like if I hired people that were
smarter than me that I would have to

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ask them for advice at this point.
Right.

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And, and they do a phenomenal job.
And it basically was that

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pivotal point.
If it wasn't for that,

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I think we would still be stagnant.
But because of them, that's how we

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were able to grow. So then what?
What what part of that was

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natural for you in non-natural?
Because I seen a lot of leaders

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that are in,
a CEO role or about to be,

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depending on how they get there,
and there's a lot of things that

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they have as a natural strength,
but then they can be a

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bottleneck in other, other ways.
So you mentioned, you know,

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kind of alluded to being an engineer.
You could stay an engineer and

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then things wouldn't grow, but what are some of the other

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things you had to staff around you
if you were to pull yourself out?

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How did you fix that problem?
Well, the thankfully,

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my background in engineering is
self-taught.

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My actual degree in training is
in business management and

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administration. Okay.
So it was kind of one of those

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things like, yes,
I love the engineering and I wanted

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to stay there and keep doing that.
But because I did come from a

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business background and have a
business degree and all that kind of

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stuff from UCF, actually University
of Central Florida. Oh, nice.

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Yeah, I actually, you know,
use this tools and things that I

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learned there to kind of go,
okay, Ray, now you got to think

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like a businessman, like a CEO.
You can't think like an engineer.

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Now you need to step back.
You need to bring in the right

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people.
You need to bring in the right

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systems, and start doing that.
And that's kind of how that

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transition happened.
It wasn't as hard as people may

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think. It it was. It wasn't.
It was when I finally realized I

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didn't have to code.
That was probably the only time I

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kind of, you know, was like,
oh, like, I can't code anymore.

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Like, this is like, you know, but thankfully, for me,

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of my hobbies, and one of my

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hobbies is coding, yeah.
Just to tell you a quick story,

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00:08:13,770 --> 00:08:17,700, two weeks ago, I do work at
a nonprofit. I do a I'm a coach.

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I'm a basketball coach at a at a
travel basketball organization.

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Totally do it. Voluntary nonprofit, and, this this year,

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they were doing tryouts, and one of
the secretaries asked me like, hey,

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is there a system out there that can,
you know, manage our player

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registration and all that stuff?
And, and I was like, oh,

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fun code project, you know?
And so I did it for fun.

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And I knocked out an application
in like 14 hours.

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And lo and behold,
that application now may become a

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product because it's being requested
by other programs around the country.

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So, but anyways.
But to go that's kind of how it was.

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It's like, yeah, I do coding for fun.
I'm not coding anymore.

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So I didn't really hurt that much
because I still do it for fun.

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That makes sense. Gotcha. Yeah.
That's awesome.

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That's the best way. Yeah, so during that time when you

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pivoted, you know, where it was
for a pivotal time. Yeah.

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inside the company?

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Was it did it come on the back
of a big new contract that gave

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you the cash to hire the team,
or was it a little bit of a more of

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a risk, or did you have multiple
things that happen at one time?

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Well, so I can tell you.
So it was a risk.

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obviously to hire the amount of

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people because we wanted to make
sure we were we'd be able to scale,

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00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:33,690, you know, so we went out,
we got we got some funding and we

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were able to add to the team,
we started putting process in place,

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hired a sales team, hired,
we started doing marketing,

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all the stuff we hadn't marketed
in nine years, by the way.

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We grew the company with no
marketing.

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The company grew to $1 million
business simply by just referrals and

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just doing good work for people.
Right.

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And, and but then we decided,
oh, we want to scale from there.

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So. Yeah.
So it required us to get funding,

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it required us start putting
systems in place.

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we did run through our struggles

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because when you're, you know,
when you're stepping out from,

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you're the guy doing everything at
first and everything, you're like

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optimizing how everything works.
And then you start bringing people,

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you realize people that come in
don't necessarily have the same

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drive and care that you do for
your own business and your

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customers and everything.
So that's probably been the

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biggest struggle,
is like trying to find people that

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fit the same personality that I have.
Yeah, we're like, you know,

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I'm driven.
I'm literally like,

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you'll find me here in the office
at two, 3:00 in the morning,

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you know, still today.
And I'm not even coding or doing

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anything like I'm just that's
just me doing business strategy.

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You're just there.
Sleeping because that's what you

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do at three, two in the morning,
right? Yeah.

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Every day I'm living here and, and but, you know,

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you want to find people that
share that same kind of passion.

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It's really difficult,
but it's possible. Yeah. Get a few.

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Yeah. How's that road been for you?
Finding high, high quality people.

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People that fit the culture.
It's been tough. We've gone through.

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We've gone through significant amount
of people. It's. You never.

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You ever hear the term higher.
Fast. Fire fast? Yes.

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I've never heard that. Yeah.
So it's I'm a hard it's hard for

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me to do that. Yeah, because I'm one of those people.

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I think about people, personalities.
I think about people's families.

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Yeah.
Yeah,

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I care about my employees families.
You know, I had,

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I had an employee who wasn't
performing for a while,

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but because she had medical issues,
I didn't want her to feel like to add

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to the burden. You know what I mean?
She was already dealing with so.

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So I have a hard time with the
fire fast part, you know, so.

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But I've been working on it,
and that's been probably my

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biggest struggle.
I think I mentioned it in a TikTok.

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I said, that's my biggest weakness.
My biggest weakness is like the fact

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that I, I'm a people person, and
I care about people personalities.

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I care about people's families. Yeah.
And I always, so I try to

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give people a chance, and,
and give them more chance. Is it?

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Probably they should,
before I make the decision if it's

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not going to work out, but that's.
Yeah, but, you know,

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we've been able to survive, we've been able to thrive.

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And, and the best part about
it is, like, right now, I have a

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team that's optimal, you know?
And it's like a bunch of me's

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out there right now. Sure. Yeah.
So so I don't.

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Know, weirdly,
this in my mind where it makes

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me go is retention of clients.
Because I think a person like

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yourself is probably suited for,
you know, high retention because you

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care about people, you care about
the relationship, the connection.

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Is that been true in your business
and how much of your business

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has been repeat? Absolutely.
We've had clients have been with

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us since.
So we've been in business for

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ten years is our 10th year.
We have a client that's been

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with us for eight.
We have another client been with

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us for seven, we have a new client or a

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client that's considered new, we, we started working with

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them in October of, actually,
no, sorry. August of 2023.

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00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:36,990, and we're still talking and
we're still working and we're

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still doing work for them,
and we already have, you know,

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multiple phases in the future that
we're still going to be doing

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stuff for them. That's amazing.
So I love the retention piece of

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things.
I, I think that more businesses

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should be focused on that part
of it because it takes so much

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to land a new client. Then.
Yeah, you let that all that work

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go out the back end and again,
back to the point of finding

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good quality people to help you
with that retention.

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That can be a struggle. Yeah.
We have a we have a client of ours

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at every Christmas they invite
us to their Christmas party.

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So every Christmas we're hanging
out with the whole team.

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And it's like it's like we're
part of the team. Yeah.

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In fact, that's the goal.
It's it's awesome. And it's.

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And the thing is, it just makes for
and this is one of our clients that

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now is potentially going to get
acquired by a private equity firm.

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So and this has happened not
just once we've done there's

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four other clients of ours that
have been able to exit after

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selling to a larger firm. Right.
You know, and, because that's

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what it's all about, right? Yeah.
The way I explain to people is like,

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when I see small businesses,
I see families, yes.

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So my goal is to help that CEO
or that owner develop a company,

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a product or service or whatever
they're doing so that they can

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be successful.
They can support their families

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today and for future generations.
That's always the goal.

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And that's kind of what I focus on.
Yeah.

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For B2B, businesses, you know,
you're selling from business to

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business. It's all relationship game.
And I've had this sort of chart

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that it's like you want to go from
stranger to best friends and,

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you know, not in literal terms,
but essentially that's the idea.

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And you being at their your client's
Christmas party is a good example of

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that, being invited into the,
their, their house and being,

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you know, celebrating the things
that they celebrate.

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If you could have enough of those,
then that's a very sustainable,

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repeatable, you know, low stress,
high reward business.

287
00:14:22,050 --> 00:14:24,420, that, that, you know,
people that are other people that are

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in a service based business that
are selling to other businesses,

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00:14:27,780 --> 00:14:30,990
that's that's the goal.
Yeah, that should be the goal.

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00:14:30,990 --> 00:14:34,350
And, you know, the, a good
story that I'll tell you is like,

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so during the pandemic, one of our
clients is in hospitality, right?

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Everything's shut down during
the pandemic, right? Yeah.

293
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We they have a whole cloud server
cloud solution that they're managed,

294
00:14:44,310 --> 00:14:46,950
that we're managing. Right.
So,

295
00:14:46,950 --> 00:14:49,470
I knew that they were shut down.
I knew they weren't going to get any

296
00:14:49,470 --> 00:14:52,080
money, you know, and I called them
up and I said, hey, don't worry,

297
00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:54,330
I got your cloud services until
everything picks back up.

298
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Yeah,
like I'll take care of it myself.

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You know, my I didn't at that time.
I had a smaller team and,

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00:14:59,820 --> 00:15:03,570
and my team was like, you know,
we couldn't work, right?

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So we were shut out of our office.
Yeah.

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So I just told my team, hey,
just consider this like a furlough,

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00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:11,760
not a furlough, but consider, like,
a vacation, right? Until we get back.

304
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Back to going, I said.
But I'll take care of the clients

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and manage all of their oars until.
Until we get back.

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That's amazing. You know?
And, again, that's the client

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that's been with us for like seven,
eight years. So it's like awesome.

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00:15:23,100 --> 00:15:26,070
But that's kind of relationship
we like to have, you know, and,

309
00:15:26,070 --> 00:15:28,950, we don't always have it.
So, you know, I don't want to,

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00:15:28,980 --> 00:15:31,350
you know, paint this picture if it's
all sunshine and rainbows, like we

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00:15:31,350 --> 00:15:36,810
do have people that take advantage
of our the amount of love and care

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00:15:36,810 --> 00:15:39,510
we give to our client, right?
We try to take advantage of it,

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00:15:39,510 --> 00:15:42,600
and then we have to.
And then we then we we feel those.

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It's got to be a healthy relationship
both ways. Exactly. Yep.

315
00:15:46,710 --> 00:15:49,110
Well, getting back to this LinkedIn
post I saw of yours where you were

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00:15:49,110 --> 00:15:52,680
saying that you're expanding, I'm, I'm excited to talk to you

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00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:55,380
about what that expansion means.
I mean, I, I really don't have any

318
00:15:55,380 --> 00:15:58,680
other questions for you, like,
prepared, other than getting us

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00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:01,530
to this place to say, okay,
let's talk about what is great

320
00:16:01,620 --> 00:16:04,710
software look like in the future.
You know, let's talk about the

321
00:16:04,710 --> 00:16:07,590
ins and outs of that.
And I want to get back to the AI

322
00:16:07,590 --> 00:16:09,600
conversation we're having too,
because that was a very interesting.

323
00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:13,170
Yeah. Well, the expansion part.
So so the post that you saw was

324
00:16:13,170 --> 00:16:17,910
basically I was, we have we have
been involved in several companies.

325
00:16:17,910 --> 00:16:20,250
Some of them will have equity
and some of them we've built,

326
00:16:20,490 --> 00:16:23,280, so we built two other brands
who you media and,

327
00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:26,820
learn to build a business.com. Okay.
So who you media is just the media

328
00:16:26,820 --> 00:16:29,010
brand. We talked about it earlier.
You talked about how you guys do

329
00:16:29,010 --> 00:16:31,440
video and stuff like that.
That's kind of what the who you media

330
00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:34,860
is. We've been doing video for years, I worked in a TV studio for

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00:16:34,860 --> 00:16:36,510
six years.
So I have a passion for, for,

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00:16:36,510 --> 00:16:39,090
for TV and video and all that.
That's awesome. Yeah. So.

333
00:16:39,090 --> 00:16:43,110
So in fact, if I actually pan this
camera around, you would see, like.

334
00:16:43,210 --> 00:16:45,910
While my high end cameras,
lighting and all that stuff.

335
00:16:45,940 --> 00:16:49,030
You know, and it's because it's just
something that I'm passionate about.

336
00:16:49,030 --> 00:16:52,180
It wasn't to build a company
necessarily, but it was just a we

337
00:16:52,180 --> 00:16:56,320
created the brand so that when
we wanted to do something like

338
00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:59,410
along the lines of that, we can
put it under a brand name, right?

339
00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:01,510, we didn't want to dilute
product because grass is

340
00:17:01,510 --> 00:17:04,510
specifically technology.
But then on top of that,

341
00:17:04,510 --> 00:17:08,320
the learn to build the business was
actually brought up because of Greta.

342
00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:10,600
So in fact, if you look at all of our
Learn to build a business thing,

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00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:12,700
it always says Powered by Greta,
because the reality is,

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00:17:12,700 --> 00:17:15,760
is we during the pandemic,
we did a bunch of presentations, we

345
00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:18,280
did a bunch of virtual conferences.
We were invited to do a bunch of

346
00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:20,530
virtual conferences for small
businesses.

347
00:17:20,530 --> 00:17:22,390
And every small business we
talked to,

348
00:17:22,420 --> 00:17:26,410
they ate up everything we had to say.
They were like they loved all the

349
00:17:26,410 --> 00:17:29,080
information we were providing
about how to use technology in

350
00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:31,630
their business, how to expand
their business with technology.

351
00:17:31,780 --> 00:17:34,420, we were giving and we were giving
very detailed, and it wasn't like a

352
00:17:34,420 --> 00:17:37,870
normal webinar where it's just like
bland information. Get with us later.

353
00:17:37,870 --> 00:17:40,540
Yeah, I was never I'm not an
expert in webinars,

354
00:17:40,540 --> 00:17:45,130
so I tend to love to teach.
So I was teaching in these webinars

355
00:17:45,130 --> 00:17:48,850
and we have was they're like,
Ray, we would love to hire you.

356
00:17:48,850 --> 00:17:53,200
We can't afford you, you know,
but if you had a course or a

357
00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:57,010
membership site or a yeah, something
for like 20, 30, 40, 50 bucks a

358
00:17:57,010 --> 00:18:01,720
month or even like a one time fee,
like we'll sign up for it. Yeah.

359
00:18:01,900 --> 00:18:05,470
You know, however,
the time I was like, okay, well,

360
00:18:05,470 --> 00:18:08,890
we're in the pandemic,
I don't have the resources to kind of

361
00:18:08,890 --> 00:18:11,380
just expand out and do anything.
So I had to wait.

362
00:18:11,380 --> 00:18:14,480
And so I waited until, you know,
we, like I said, we became $1

363
00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:16,660
million business just recently, last year.

364
00:18:16,660 --> 00:18:18,430
And I was like, okay,
now we have the resources,

365
00:18:18,430 --> 00:18:21,910
the funds and everything that we
can do. We can add this component.

366
00:18:21,910 --> 00:18:23,860
So we decided, well,
we don't again, we don't want to

367
00:18:23,860 --> 00:18:26,770
dilute the grotto brand.
Grotto brand is, you know, a little,

368
00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:29,350
you know, a little bit more of a
boutique shop, like I said. Sure.

369
00:18:29,350 --> 00:18:31,090
So what we said is we're like,
okay, well, why don't we create

370
00:18:31,090 --> 00:18:33,280
a whole nother brand for this?
So we created Learn to Build a

371
00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:34,960
Business, and,

372
00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:38,080
and that's where if you want to learn
how to transition from working a

373
00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:41,170
job to becoming an entrepreneur,
you want to learn how to find the

374
00:18:41,170 --> 00:18:44,140
right product or service that you
want to, you know, sell, find the

375
00:18:44,140 --> 00:18:46,570
target customers that you want,
the audience that you want to serve.

376
00:18:46,570 --> 00:18:49,690
And then also you want to determine
how to sell to those customers,

377
00:18:49,690 --> 00:18:52,630
what kind of messaging that you need
marketing, then that's what that's

378
00:18:52,630 --> 00:18:56,110
for. It's a program that we built.
It's a membership site, that

379
00:18:56,110 --> 00:18:59,380
allows people to learn all of this,
the foundations of business,

380
00:18:59,380 --> 00:19:01,810
because one of the biggest issues
working in the tech industry that I

381
00:19:01,810 --> 00:19:05,530
see today is everyone's focused on
these tech startups, these unicorns.

382
00:19:05,770 --> 00:19:08,140
So they and they think it's like,
okay, I start a business,

383
00:19:08,140 --> 00:19:09,970
I go get funding,
and then I build this unicorn.

384
00:19:10,120 --> 00:19:12,910
You have to be able to run the
business. That's right.

385
00:19:12,910 --> 00:19:16,000
There's a fundamental way of
running a business. Yes.

386
00:19:16,150 --> 00:19:20,080
You know, cash flow. Right.
Managing employees, you know,

387
00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:23,020
all these like resources in
general how to get resources,

388
00:19:23,020 --> 00:19:27,100
how to use your resources,
how to, you know, manage,

389
00:19:27,100 --> 00:19:29,950
clients expectations,
how to do customer service.

390
00:19:29,950 --> 00:19:33,730
There's all these aspects to running
a business that in the tech world,

391
00:19:33,730 --> 00:19:37,030
a lot of people don't talk about
until you hear it on the news that

392
00:19:37,030 --> 00:19:39,100
so-and-so has to shut down because
they've already burned through

393
00:19:39,100 --> 00:19:41,440
their $10 million of investment.
Right? Right.

394
00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:43,870
And it's because they're not
running a business fundamentally.

395
00:19:43,870 --> 00:19:46,930
So what we want to do is we want
to show people who are going into

396
00:19:46,930 --> 00:19:48,820
the world of entrepreneurship,
this is how you run a business

397
00:19:48,820 --> 00:19:51,220
fundamentally like this is how
you manage your cash flow.

398
00:19:51,220 --> 00:19:53,590
This is how you manage your clients.
It's how you do sales like

399
00:19:53,590 --> 00:19:56,020
everyone thinks you need to have
the Clickfunnels and all these

400
00:19:56,020 --> 00:19:57,910
other tools.
I'm like, dude,

401
00:19:57,910 --> 00:20:01,960
my whole business was I said,
I'm going to provide the service.

402
00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:03,460
I pick up the phone,
I start calling a bunch of

403
00:20:03,460 --> 00:20:05,830
people that that potentially
could use my service. Yeah.

404
00:20:05,830 --> 00:20:10,150
And then I, a few of them bit on
it and those became. Yeah.

405
00:20:10,540 --> 00:20:14,110
And then the money I earned from
that I reinvested back into the

406
00:20:14,110 --> 00:20:17,350
business to continue growing it.
I didn't take investment until

407
00:20:17,350 --> 00:20:19,180
recently.
I didn't take I didn't take a

408
00:20:19,180 --> 00:20:22,330
money till like a year ago.
A year ago, the first time we ever

409
00:20:22,330 --> 00:20:25,420
got funds. This is really good.
I like what you're talking about.

410
00:20:25,420 --> 00:20:28,120
I think it has such a need in
the market to get back to the

411
00:20:28,120 --> 00:20:29,470
fundamentals.
I mean,

412
00:20:29,470 --> 00:20:33,940
I can't tell you how many stories
I've heard and seen of entrepreneurs,

413
00:20:33,940 --> 00:20:37,990
small business owners, even bigger
business owners that they go awry.

414
00:20:37,990 --> 00:20:41,680
They there's so much,
misinformation out there.

415
00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:44,470
And I would say not even maybe
not even misinformation.

416
00:20:44,470 --> 00:20:50,140
There's so much information that
can be miscommunicated in terms

417
00:20:50,140 --> 00:20:53,290
of the context of how that
information can be most valuable.

418
00:20:53,290 --> 00:20:57,580
And, you know, someone that is,
someone that needs Clickfunnels to,

419
00:20:57,580 --> 00:21:00,100
you know, to to harp on that for
a minute. Yeah.

420
00:21:00,100 --> 00:21:03,220
May not be the person who's
running a software company, right.

421
00:21:03,220 --> 00:21:06,310
There may be a solution for it out
there, but it may not be for someone

422
00:21:06,310 --> 00:21:10,000
who wants to go from being a software
engineer to running their own shop.

423
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:15,100
Yeah, there's so many different
flavors of how, businesses

424
00:21:15,100 --> 00:21:17,800
that can be started and run.
Yeah, and there's new ones

425
00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:21,670
created every day,
and there is not a one size fits all.

426
00:21:21,670 --> 00:21:24,100
And so when you get on TikTok
and you get on Instagram and you

427
00:21:24,100 --> 00:21:28,810
get on YouTube and you're you
don't know what you don't know,

428
00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:32,410
you take it all in and think,
oh man, they were very compelling.

429
00:21:32,410 --> 00:21:35,830
And talking about this one thing, I
guess that's what I need to do. Yeah.

430
00:21:35,950 --> 00:21:38,260
And you don't you don't ever
really make any progress.

431
00:21:38,260 --> 00:21:41,980
So I think it's great to have
fundamentals 101 type of thing.

432
00:21:41,980 --> 00:21:44,990
It sounds like you're.
Focused on that.

433
00:21:45,050 --> 00:21:47,750
Are you focused on specifically
engineers that have jobs that

434
00:21:47,750 --> 00:21:50,630
want to be entrepreneurs,
or just kind of people who have jobs

435
00:21:50,630 --> 00:21:53,240
in general want to be entrepreneurs,
working, working professionals?

436
00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:56,360
So basically anybody who's working
a professional job right now that

437
00:21:56,360 --> 00:21:59,780
wants to it's, you know, tired of
the 9 to 5, tired of the rat race,

438
00:21:59,780 --> 00:22:03,200
you know, they're they could even
be an executive because executive

439
00:22:03,470 --> 00:22:06,230
a lot of people think executives
are like living large and having

440
00:22:06,590 --> 00:22:09,170
no they have the most stress,
the most things to deal with.

441
00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:11,600
Sometimes they have least time
with their family. And yes.

442
00:22:11,900 --> 00:22:15,290
So that's why so but the problem is,
is that when you're making six

443
00:22:15,290 --> 00:22:18,440
figures a year as an executive,
you know, it's really hard to just

444
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,890
jump over to just being your own
boss. It's super hard, you know?

445
00:22:21,890 --> 00:22:24,590
So and I was there, I was.
Living there.

446
00:22:24,860 --> 00:22:27,560, there's there's a mortgage.
There's got to be repaid.

447
00:22:27,950 --> 00:22:30,170
You know, I was talking to a
buddy of mine earlier today

448
00:22:30,170 --> 00:22:33,260
about this same thing where,
you know, you see people online,

449
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:35,870
especially young people,
they're the easiest to to, you know,

450
00:22:35,870 --> 00:22:38,630
harp on is that they live at home,
they have no responsibilities.

451
00:22:38,630 --> 00:22:41,210
They have nothing to lose.
They can they can throw darts at

452
00:22:41,210 --> 00:22:44,900
a wall and have success.
And it and it's great because it's

453
00:22:44,900 --> 00:22:47,840
all basically all profit, you know.
But when you actually start building

454
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:50,780
a company like you're talking about,
it gets a little bit more

455
00:22:50,780 --> 00:22:53,150
complicated.
And then you have a company where you

456
00:22:53,150 --> 00:22:55,580
have people that you have to support,
and you have a family at home with

457
00:22:55,580 --> 00:23:00,350
a mortgage and all the things.
It just becomes much more complicated

458
00:23:00,350 --> 00:23:03,290
than it seems on TikTok. Absolutely.
Listen,

459
00:23:03,290 --> 00:23:06,560
there's a thing called the IRS. Yes.
Every year they come to you,

460
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:09,290
they want money, they're there.
And you got to be able to put

461
00:23:09,290 --> 00:23:11,360
money aside to pay the IRS,
because if you don't,

462
00:23:11,390 --> 00:23:15,200
they will come for you. That's right.
And that's the funny thing is,

463
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:17,060
I love,
I made this joke the other day.

464
00:23:17,060 --> 00:23:19,220
I said, all these TikTokers and I
also have to talk about how they

465
00:23:19,220 --> 00:23:21,350
make millions of dollars sitting
at home and just, you know,

466
00:23:21,350 --> 00:23:24,320
a few hours a day. Yeah.
I'm like, I'm like, if I was the IRS

467
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:27,200
right now, I'd be like, all right,
let's give this guy a call. Yep.

468
00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:30,500
Like, because chances are these
people don't aren't even managing

469
00:23:30,500 --> 00:23:33,230
their money correctly because,
you know, as a business, depending on

470
00:23:33,230 --> 00:23:36,260
the type of business you are, like,
if you're if you're a corporation

471
00:23:36,260 --> 00:23:38,270
every quarter, you have to give
money to the to the government,

472
00:23:38,270 --> 00:23:41,690
you have to do meetings, you have to
do you know, if you're an LLC, then

473
00:23:41,690 --> 00:23:44,000
you have your own responsibility.
Like there's all these structures

474
00:23:44,030 --> 00:23:46,820
that are that require those.
Are the simple. Things and those are.

475
00:23:48,140 --> 00:23:51,410
The. Absolute simple things.
You know, you hire someone, you know.

476
00:23:51,410 --> 00:23:53,720
So, you know,
I had this conversation with someone

477
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:55,760
the other day and they're like,
they're like, oh, man,

478
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:59,270
why don't you why don't you pay, you should be paying more for,

479
00:23:59,270 --> 00:24:02,330
for engineers stuff.
I said, you know it for your salary.

480
00:24:02,330 --> 00:24:05,540
I have to pay another 11% on top of
that for just an employment taxes

481
00:24:05,540 --> 00:24:08,240
and then the unemployment taxes.
I'm like, so I have to pay

482
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:10,730
unemployment, whether you're going
to stay with me or not, you know,

483
00:24:10,730 --> 00:24:13,220
I still have to pay that.
The government requires me to

484
00:24:13,220 --> 00:24:16,580
pay that no matter what.
So it's 11% on top of your salary.

485
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:19,520
It's math. Right.
And I don't even have to.

486
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,220
And I don't get it. I don't I'm not.
That doesn't come back to me at all.

487
00:24:22,220 --> 00:24:25,640
No, no, there's no benefit there.
I'm handing it to the government.

488
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:26,840
You got it.
And then I just have to live

489
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:28,640
with whatever I got left,
you know? And that's.

490
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:30,830
That's my life,
you know what I mean? So.

491
00:24:30,830 --> 00:24:32,750
But, but those are the
things that people just

492
00:24:32,750 --> 00:24:36,200
fundamentally are not aware of.
In fact, because of this,

493
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,290
I've actually volunteered at score.
I don't know if you heard a score.

494
00:24:39,290 --> 00:24:41,720
I have heard a score. Yeah.
So I volunteered as a mentor at

495
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:45,440
score. So, so we need.
More people like you. Yeah.

496
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,950
So we so we work that out, like,
you know, I was at a meeting

497
00:24:48,950 --> 00:24:50,690
somewhere, and someone's like,
you need to be a mentor at score.

498
00:24:50,690 --> 00:24:52,760
And I said, okay.
So I went and I checked it out,

499
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:56,090
and as soon as I talked to them,
they were arms wide open, like,

500
00:24:56,090 --> 00:24:59,450
please come here.
Oh, yeah, help us coach all of

501
00:24:59,450 --> 00:25:01,550
these new entrepreneurs that are
coming in. Yeah.

502
00:25:01,820 --> 00:25:04,640, and because they do get a lot of
technical people that are coming in

503
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:07,550
to try to build new apps or whatever,
and some of them just need a

504
00:25:07,550 --> 00:25:10,820
practical, knowledge and
understanding of what building an

505
00:25:10,820 --> 00:25:13,790
app really means. Yeah, it's sort.
Of a local first point of entry

506
00:25:13,790 --> 00:25:16,370
for a lot of people. Yeah.
It's very it's free, you know,

507
00:25:16,370 --> 00:25:19,190
and that's and the great thing is,
is they, they were okay with me

508
00:25:19,190 --> 00:25:21,650
having my learn to build a business,
which is the paid version of score.

509
00:25:21,650 --> 00:25:24,230
There you go. That's what score does.
But it's a paid version.

510
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:26,000
That's right.
Because that one's more like

511
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,310
your coaching. Coaching.
Like I'm more involved with the

512
00:25:28,310 --> 00:25:31,190
companies and I'm talking to, where score is like you're

513
00:25:31,190 --> 00:25:34,010
mentoring and you kind of like,
leave them to go do it on their own.

514
00:25:34,010 --> 00:25:37,370
Yeah, that's the biggest difference.
So yeah, I love this concept.

515
00:25:37,370 --> 00:25:39,680
I think it's great.
I think, we need more of this

516
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:42,950
out in the market to there's,
there's the market is flush with

517
00:25:42,950 --> 00:25:47,330
people who want to be entrepreneurs.
And not everybody needs to be an

518
00:25:47,330 --> 00:25:53,840
entrepreneur that first and foremost, and there's a lot of like,

519
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:57,440
hand-holding that needs to be had on
the front end with some people to

520
00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:01,430
say, hey, you're making good money
with what you're doing right now.

521
00:26:01,430 --> 00:26:05,450
How about you not quit your job?
Let's start on these first few steps.

522
00:26:05,450 --> 00:26:08,330
Let's get the ball rolling.
Yeah, and let's make a good

523
00:26:08,330 --> 00:26:10,310
financial decision.
A good decision that, you know,

524
00:26:10,310 --> 00:26:12,170
is good for your family and the
company you're with and the

525
00:26:12,170 --> 00:26:14,600
company you're starting.
Instead of jumping in with both

526
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,030
feet and thinking you're going to
be in the next Mark Zuckerberg.

527
00:26:17,330 --> 00:26:21,290, you know, it's just there's,
there's there's a few. Right?

528
00:26:21,290 --> 00:26:26,270
It's it's not it's not the majority.
It's, all these conversations

529
00:26:26,270 --> 00:26:28,970
have to be had. Well, even.
When I tell that story on the Learn

530
00:26:28,970 --> 00:26:31,610
to Build a business platform,
I say, look, I went cold turkey,

531
00:26:31,610 --> 00:26:35,750
I went crazy, I was like,
I was a software engineer working

532
00:26:35,750 --> 00:26:38,390
at a startup, by the way,
a fully funded startup.

533
00:26:38,390 --> 00:26:41,510
I was leading the team of about
20 to 30 engineers.

534
00:26:41,510 --> 00:26:43,550
We were building basically.
Social media.

535
00:26:43,580 --> 00:26:46,550
Another Facebook competitor.
You know, we knocked it out in

536
00:26:46,550 --> 00:26:51,080
six months, a beta version.
And, throughout that whole time.

537
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:55,160
The real reason why I went full
cold turkey was because I had two.

538
00:26:55,340 --> 00:26:57,320
I have two daughters,
and both of them had medical issues.

539
00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:00,500
But those they exacerbated that year,
that year that I decided to go

540
00:27:00,500 --> 00:27:02,240
cold turkey.
And what happened was,

541
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:04,910
is I was spending, you know,
one of them had thyroid cancer,

542
00:27:04,910 --> 00:27:08,420
the other one had having violent
seizures and all of this stuff.

543
00:27:08,420 --> 00:27:10,970
So I'm making great money,
like I'm doing good.

544
00:27:10,970 --> 00:27:13,190
I'm living like,
I felt like I was on my dream job.

545
00:27:13,190 --> 00:27:16,160
I was working at a startup, I was an
engineer, I was running the team.

546
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,200
I was making six figures,
I had insurance,

547
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:21,170
but then all this stuff happened from
the medical side and the insurance

548
00:27:21,170 --> 00:27:24,830
wasn't able to cover the bills.
Yeah, I realized there is no way

549
00:27:24,830 --> 00:27:28,790
I can sustain the all the
medical stuff and everything.

550
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,460
There's just no way I can sustain it.
So that's when I was like, okay,

551
00:27:31,460 --> 00:27:33,200
I gotta go out on my own.
Thankfully,

552
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,260
I have business skills, right?
So I went out and I sold about

553
00:27:36,260 --> 00:27:39,560
$100,000 worth of work. Yeah.
And then I just went cold turkey.

554
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:44,090
I literally went May 5th or sorry,
May 1st of 2015 was the time

555
00:27:44,090 --> 00:27:46,820
when I said, all right,
instead of doing this on the side,

556
00:27:46,820 --> 00:27:50,060
I'm doing this full time.
And I made that leap and I had

557
00:27:50,060 --> 00:27:53,120
just bought a house,
so I had a new mortgage. Right.

558
00:27:53,120 --> 00:27:55,040
Again, these medical bills
coming and it was stressful.

559
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:58,400
I would never,
ever recommend to anyone to do that.

560
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,250
You know, what's so funny is my
story is very similar and I

561
00:28:01,250 --> 00:28:03,020
always say the same thing.
You know,

562
00:28:03,020 --> 00:28:06,170
I would people say if someone wants
to be an entrepreneur or whatever,

563
00:28:06,170 --> 00:28:09,560
what advice would you give them?
I'd say, keep your job. Yeah.

564
00:28:09,740 --> 00:28:12,500
Because, you know,
it doesn't always work out.

565
00:28:12,500 --> 00:28:16,160
It is a lot of stress, a lot.
And and it doesn't matter if

566
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,620
you're great, it's still going
to be a lot of stress.

567
00:28:18,830 --> 00:28:22,280
So it works out for some people
and some people it doesn't.

568
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:25,010
And you know, you don't know if
you're going to be that person.

569
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:27,410
Exactly.
I mean, the funny thing is I would

570
00:28:27,410 --> 00:28:29,840
spend every day like looking at
job listings while I'm,

571
00:28:30,290 --> 00:28:31,940
you know what I'm saying?
Because you're sitting, you're like,

572
00:28:31,940 --> 00:28:34,820
okay, why did I do this? Yes.
And then you're like,

573
00:28:34,820 --> 00:28:37,040
and you're looking at job listings
on one screen while you're working

574
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:39,500
on the other going, you're trying
to sell to a customer here while

575
00:28:39,500 --> 00:28:43,340
you're looking at jobs. Yeah.
So that's the whole first like

576
00:28:43,340 --> 00:28:45,410
six months was like that.
It was just crazy.

577
00:28:45,410 --> 00:28:47,600
And, yeah,
I have a picture of my office.

578
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:51,200
I converted a walk in closet in
my house to an office, and,

579
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,050
no AC, no vents.
I'm sweating in that thing all

580
00:28:54,050 --> 00:28:55,760
day long. Gosh.
You know, and I'm sitting there

581
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:59,120
going, like, why did I do this? Yeah.
You know, I kept reminding myself,

582
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:01,730
oh, well, I can't pay the medical
bills unless I do this. That's right.

583
00:29:01,730 --> 00:29:04,520
So that's the real test.
And, you know, telling that

584
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:09,560
story in the most, you know,
surreal way that you can tell it to

585
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:13,220
these people that you meet with.
Yeah, it's probably the most benefit

586
00:29:13,220 --> 00:29:16,940
you can give them to say, you know,
let me tell you about that closet

587
00:29:16,940 --> 00:29:19,790
that I sweat in and wondered what
what am I doing with my life?

588
00:29:19,790 --> 00:29:23,330
And I have all these problems going
on. Yeah. Are you willing to do that?

589
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:24,950
You know,
if you're willing to do that,

590
00:29:24,950 --> 00:29:27,410
then this might be good for you.
You might want to take the step.

591
00:29:27,410 --> 00:29:29,150
Let's talk. Let's keep talking.
Exactly.

592
00:29:29,180 --> 00:29:32,780
If you're not, then you probably
should take a slower road. Exactly.

593
00:29:32,780 --> 00:29:35,270
And that's and you know,
and most people aren't you know,

594
00:29:35,270 --> 00:29:39,050
let's face it, like today's society,
like most people can't handle

595
00:29:39,050 --> 00:29:42,530
that amount of pressure.
I mean, everyone's being

596
00:29:42,530 --> 00:29:46,670
raised now to be more of, like,
they're not baby, because I wouldn't

597
00:29:46,670 --> 00:29:49,010
want to say that, because that
would be that would be kind of like

598
00:29:49,010 --> 00:29:51,650
talking down to even my employees.
They're really good people.

599
00:29:51,650 --> 00:29:56,480
Like, yeah, like it's just different.
I don't want to I don't want to sound

600
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:59,870
bad. It's just different. Like.
Everybody's more comfortable, more.

601
00:29:59,870 --> 00:30:02,420
Comfortable, far more comfortable.
Now, if you're comfortable, you don't

602
00:30:02,420 --> 00:30:05,750
want to give up that comfort as much
as you might think you do. You don't.

603
00:30:05,750 --> 00:30:08,660
Yeah. And that's the difference.
Like the difference is you gotta

604
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:12,440
if you want to really make it,
you gotta learn to be uncomfortable

605
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:17,960
99% of the time. All the time.
You know, I have a funny enough,

606
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:22,130
I have a video I posted the other
day, so I have access to,

607
00:30:22,130 --> 00:30:25,940, a lounge, over.
So at the Amway Center right here

608
00:30:25,940 --> 00:30:28,940
where the Orlando Magic play. Yeah, I have season tickets, but then

609
00:30:29,030 --> 00:30:31,670
sometimes I get the Ultimate Lounge,
which is down in the tunnel.

610
00:30:31,820 --> 00:30:34,670
It's where all the people who
have money or nice tickets,

611
00:30:34,670 --> 00:30:38,240
they go there, right? Yeah.
And everyone would think I go

612
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:40,580
there to network or whatever.
No, I have a picture of me

613
00:30:40,580 --> 00:30:42,410
literally sitting there.
The game is already on,

614
00:30:42,410 --> 00:30:46,190
it emptied out, and I'm sitting there
at a at a table, and I just took a

615
00:30:46,190 --> 00:30:49,610
photo of myself in the room with
just the employees that work there.

616
00:30:49,610 --> 00:30:52,460
It's just me and the employees,
and I'm like, not talking to anybody.

617
00:30:52,460 --> 00:30:56,720
Like I'm in the room is empty. Yes.
I'm like, sometimes this is all

618
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,720
I need. This, right?
I just need to sit in an empty room

619
00:31:00,110 --> 00:31:03,650
because because you are under a lot
of men's pressure all the time. Yeah.

620
00:31:03,650 --> 00:31:07,490
So sometimes you just need that.
I totally can understand that.

621
00:31:07,490 --> 00:31:11,330
It's. It's a thing for sure.
Absolutely. That's amazing.

622
00:31:11,330 --> 00:31:13,370
Well, I want to get back to the
I conversation.

623
00:31:13,850 --> 00:31:18,200
I know this is kind of a, you know,
not the same conversation, but yeah,

624
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,170
prior to us jumping on here,
a great little okay, okay.

625
00:31:21,170 --> 00:31:25,460
I apologize for the interruption,
but I had to cut this here because

626
00:31:25,460 --> 00:31:28,430
where we're going with this,
I conversation needed to be its

627
00:31:28,430 --> 00:31:31,310
own episode.
So just go ahead and click to

628
00:31:31,310 --> 00:31:34,820
the next episode and you'll
thank me later. Enjoy.