How PBMs Have Created a Massive Hurdle for Patients, with Pharmacy Entrepreneur with Jesse Brashear
In the first episode of our CEO series, host Lee Murray engages in a captivating discussion with Jesse Brashear, the CEO of Brashear's Pharmacy, exploring the growth challenges within the pharmacy industry. The conversation delves into critical issues involving pharmacy benefit managers, federal regulations, and the emphasis on patient care. Jesse shares insightful reflections on overcoming obstacles in the pharmacy sector, providing a deeper understanding of the industry's dynamics.
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Lee Murray (00:04.018)
All right. Welcome back to Exploring Growth. Today, we have what I would consider a unique guest and our first in the CEO series that we're kicking off here for 2024. Just Jesse Brasher with Brasher's Pharmacy over in Inverness, Florida. Welcome, Jesse.
Jesse Brashear (00:07.351)
Today we have what I would consider a unique guest and our first in the CEO series. Jesse Brasher with Brasher's Pharmacy over in Inverness, Florida. Welcome, Jesse. Hi, Lee. Welcome. Thank you, Earth.
Lee Murray (00:25.002)
Sure. Yeah, I'm excited to talk to you. I love learning about businesses that aren't necessarily in the mainstream. You know, there's a lot of businesses that don't really get the spotlight on the successes that they're having and the things that they're doing. They're not, I would call, maybe not as sexy as other tech or AI or whatever people are talking about these days. So I'm excited to have you on, learn a little bit about how you approach growth for the pharmacy and honestly just learn a little bit about
Jesse Brashear (00:42.578)
as other tech or AI or whatever people are talking about today. So I'm excited to have you on, learn a little bit about how you approach Probe for the pharmacy and honestly just learn a little bit about how the business of pharmacy goes. So maybe that's probably a good place to start, just what I would call a crash course for how the pharmacy business works. Yeah, absolutely. So the business of pharmacy in today's world is very different than it was
Lee Murray (00:52.55)
you know, how the business of pharmacy goes. So maybe that's probably a good place to start. Um, you know, just what I would call a crash course for how the pharmacy business works.
Jesse Brashear (01:11.854)
20 years ago or even 30 years ago, as anybody might imagine, with changes in how the internet has changed things. So I'm a second generation pharmacy owner. I come from a line of pharmacists. My dad's a pharmacist. I've got two uncles that were pharmacists. All three of them are now retired. I work with a cousin who is a pharmacist.
Lee Murray (01:34.154)
Nice.
Lee Murray (01:39.922)
Okay, so it's all in the family. Yeah.
Jesse Brashear (01:40.53)
Um, every day. Yeah. It's my wife is a pharmacist. It's a absolute joy to work with her every day, side by side. Um, but the, how pharmacy operates is that, uh, you know, when a patient gets their prescription and brings it into the pharmacy, uh, nine times out of 10, the patients, uh, today have some sort of, uh, prescription benefit. And between their insurance company and the pharmacy, there's a middleman
Lee Murray (01:44.55)
Wow, okay.
Jesse Brashear (02:09.506)
called pharmacy benefit managers. And those PBMs, um, are, were initially designed 30, 40 years ago to be claims processes, uh, the pharmacy would buy a drug, uh, generally either from the manufacturer or from a wholesaler. And they'd put a markup on that, uh, adjudicate the claim, send it through the PBM and the PBM would issue a check, uh, from the pharmacy. So that's kind of how, um,
PBMs were originally designed to work with pharmacies. What we're finding now and what has actually become a huge burden on the industry of pharmacy, not just independent pharmacies like mine, but large regional chains, drug stores that you've heard of like Rite Aid, even Walgreens on occasion. A pharmacy can buy a drug.
put a markup on it and the PBM will say, well, we're not going to reimburse you that price, we're going to reimburse you this price. And it could even be, uh, less than the acquisition cost of that drug. So the pharmacist has a really difficult choice. I've got a patient in front of them. They have the drug in stock and they have to choose, am I going to take care of my patient or am I going to send them away, uh, because their PBM doesn't want to pay me.
Lee Murray (03:28.298)
Mm-hmm.
Jesse Brashear (03:30.722)
today for this medication. And it's a huge problem. It's closing pharmacies all over the country. In my own county here in central Florida, we've had five pharmacies that closed in the fourth quarter of 2023. Chain drug stores and independents. So, yeah. Yeah, so I mean, just to back up a step for the people like myself in the audience. You're buying pharmaceuticals
Lee Murray (03:50.154)
That's crazy.
Yeah. So, I mean, just to back up a step for the people like myself and the audience, you're buying pharmaceuticals from pharmaceutical companies, I assume. And then and those are your suppliers, right? To make it, you know, the language the same across other businesses. And those so those pharmaceuticals come in and then you resell those at theoretically an additional rate. But then that's where the problem really comes in. Is that what you're explaining?
Jesse Brashear (04:08.906)
language is same across all the businesses. And those, so those pharmaceuticals come in and then you resell those at theoretically an additional rate. But then that's where the problem is.
Yeah, the pharmacy industry is broken right now that the price of a drug that pharmacies can buy from their suppliers, um, very often throughout the day, they can be reimbursed by PBMs lower than the acquisition cost of that drug. Um, and so pharmacists are in this unique situation of having to choose between taking care of their patients or taking care of their own families and putting food on the table.
Lee Murray (04:49.434)
Yeah. Can you give me an example? I mean, I know you can't use names or anything like that, but give me an example that would help us to illustrate this for the audience, where, you know, if you had a specific type of case where someone comes in about a certain drug and they weren't able to get it or you weren't able to give it, I guess it's such a dicey situation.
Jesse Brashear (04:58.402)
if you have specific type of case.
Jesse Brashear (05:11.069)
Yeah, absolutely. Just a couple of weeks ago, we've had a patient that has been coming into one of our pharmacies for about two years now. He gets a medication to control anti-psychotic behavior, for lack of a better term. And our pharmacists are certified to administer that medication in the pharmacy.
Lee Murray (05:28.443)
Okay.
Jesse Brashear (05:35.318)
Um, it's not one that the patient injects themselves. It, it needs a nurse or a pharmacist or doctor to administer. And our pharmacists went and got special training to do that. Uh, we've been taking care of this patient for years, but in January, when we submitted that claim to his PBM, uh, they were going to pay us a hundred dollars less than it cost us to buy it. So this is a drug that took, um, increased, uh, effort.
dispense. It took more pharmacists time to dispense. It was an expensive drug already costing $1,500 a month and in this situation we had to call that patient who we knew and cared about. He was successfully being treated with this drug and had to say he had to go to another pharmacy. It was beyond our control in that situation.
Lee Murray (06:26.75)
That's tough. I mean, it's it goes beyond another type of business where you can say, hey, sorry, we're out of that product to, hey, we've been caring for this patient for months or even a lot of times, probably years. And now we have to say no to a person who their wellbeing is attached to this product. Um, I can't imagine having to do that. I mean, I'm in the business of marketing and video and consulting and stuff like that. You were not, you know, we're not curing cancer over here. You know, we're, we're just
Jesse Brashear (06:31.102)
business where you can say, hey, sorry.
Hey, we've been caring for this patient for months or even a lot of times, probably years. And now we have to say no to a person who their well-being.
Jesse Brashear (06:45.87)
I can't imagine having to do that. I mean, I'm in the business of marketing and video and consulting and stuff like that. We're not curing cancer over here. We're just making people feel good and hopefully compelling them to make a decision. It's different than another one. So I can't imagine having to turn away somebody. And if you were to turn that, or probably in that case, you had to turn that person away, where would they go? Where would they go to get that drug?
Lee Murray (06:55.418)
making people feel good and hopefully compelling them to make a decision, you know, that's different than another one. So I can't imagine having to turn away somebody. And if you were to turn that, or probably in that case, you had to turn that person away, where would they go? Where would they go to get that drug if they can't get it from you?
Jesse Brashear (07:12.066)
So the patient initially tried to go to another independent pharmacy that was in another town nearby, about 30 minute drive that also has pharmacists that are trained and willing to administer that kind of drug. Um, and that pharmacy called us, transferred the prescription. And when they, when they also adjudicated that claim, um, and sent it to the PBM, they also realized, Oh, I would be losing money on this as well. I can't, I can't dispense this.
Lee Murray (07:39.378)
Yeah. Right.
Jesse Brashear (07:41.958)
So the patient's family called us back saying, what do we do? And so we said, take it to a chain and then bring it to us. And we worked out a price where they could still pay us to administer it to them. And so in that case, it was an inconvenience to the patient, but we did the best we could in a bad situation.
Lee Murray (08:05.038)
Yeah, that's tough. That's tough that it really gets put on the patient to have to decide. And in some cases I've heard in the past too, talking about type one diabetics where they have insulin shortage or some kind of specific drug that they have to have, uh, where, you know, the, their, their actual, um, you know, their physical health is put on, on pause, you know, until, until they can work it out. And so their whole life really is on pause until they can get that next.
Jesse Brashear (08:22.094)
their actual physical health is put on pause until they can work it out. So their whole life really is on pause until they can get that next delivery of whatever that drug is. So that's gotta be such a tough hurdle as a business owner. So.
Lee Murray (08:35.25)
um, you know, a delivery of whatever that drug is. So that's gotta be such a tough hurdle as a business owner, um, to be so, you know, for lack of a better word and mesh with your patients and really truly caring for them and then being kind of handcuffed, uh, to not be able to care for them. I mean, I can imagine that that's produces such a hurdle in trying to grow your pharmacy because it's almost like you are pulling behind.
Jesse Brashear (08:46.334)
and really truly caring for them and then being kind of handcuffed to not be able to care for them. I mean, I can imagine that produces such a hurdle in trying to grow your pharmacy because it's almost like you are pulling behind, you have this weight that you're pulling behind.
Lee Murray (09:02.902)
You know that you have this weight that you're pulling behind you that continues to grow while you're trying to run faster Uh into the headwind that you're running into um, man, uh It seems like it's a hurdle that's almost um insurmountable
Jesse Brashear (09:07.682)
into the headwind that you're going into, man, it seems like it's a hurdle that's almost insurmountable. It does feel insurmountable, Lee, and yet we've committed to try and see this through. Our industry is changing. We are, as a business, as a corporation, we are looking at the future.
trying to do everything that we can to get to the other side of this. We advocate legislatively. I was heavily involved in state legislative efforts in 2023 and in Tallahassee trying to get some relief, get some control back for our patients with some six with, with success. But it feels like a little too little too late.
So even with what we hoped would be, um, you know, wildly successful, uh, pharmacies are still closing and that's not, and if all that does is put more grief, more difficulty on patients, it, um, provides more patients to fewer pharmacies, but, and you think in, in most businesses growth would be, or, you know, new patients would be an avenue to growth and in pharmacy, you know, which
Lee Murray (10:28.714)
That's right.
Jesse Brashear (10:33.378)
customers walking in their door every night. Um, however, in pharmacy volume does not necessarily lead to financial growth. Volume could the right, you've got to have the right mix of patients and payers and drugs to remain viable as a pharmacy business in 2024.
Lee Murray (10:35.594)
That's right.
Lee Murray (10:52.378)
Yeah, you know, I'm sitting here thinking is I wonder if this problem is kind of blanket across the board where, you know, you're experiencing probably decreases in payouts from all pharmaceuticals or is this really dedicated or are you seeing this in specific drugs?
Jesse Brashear (11:12.196)
in payouts from all pharmaceuticals or is this really dedicated or are you seeing this in specific drugs? It's specific drugs and it's specific plans on specific drugs. So you could take an insulin for example and you could have the same drug that you submit to four different payers, PBMs.
Lee Murray (11:17.928)
Okay.
Jesse Brashear (11:31.59)
And each one of the, you're buying it from your supplier at the same price, but each of those payers could be reimbursing a different price back to you. Some may be paying you above cost that you can afford to defend, dispense that medication. And some could be paying you under cost, sometimes wildly under cost, in which case you're, you've got to then be able to go and do the analytics to say, can I afford to still dispense this drug to the patient?
Are there other drugs that this patient is taking that maybe offset this loss? Cause pharmacists don't ever want to send away a patient. Pharmacists want to care for that patient. That's what they're trained to do. They're experts on it. Um, pharmacists, we have, um, doctorates in, uh, in pharmacy. Um, they are the experts on how drugs work in the body and drugs only work in patients that take them and so they don't ever want to have to send a patient away.
Lee Murray (12:07.626)
That's right.
Jesse Brashear (12:28.646)
So we desperately try and look at the whole patient to see if we can keep them Before having to send somebody away. We never want to do that, but unfortunately In our industry today it has to happen
Lee Murray (12:42.63)
Yeah, I can appreciate that. You know, I what I want to do is pause for a minute and come back to this conversation. I really am interested in knowing, you know, what's your thought process and your mindset around trying to grow through this. But before we do that, I want to go back to however many years ago it was before all of this kind of madness started in your in your industry. How long ago was that when things were sort of normal? And during that time,
Jesse Brashear (12:57.646)
Before we do that, I want to go back to however many years ago it was, before all of this kind of madness started in your industry. How long ago was that?
Lee Murray (13:11.666)
What did you do to grow your pharmacy?
Jesse Brashear (13:14.462)
Okay. So 20, I've been working in the pharmacy industry for 20 years, right out of college. And when I started in pharmacy, um, about 90% of patients did not have any drug coverage for their prescriptions and 10% did. Um, and so back then to grow your business, you marketed, you got out in the community, um, and tried to bring in.
Lee Murray (13:32.603)
Okay.
Jesse Brashear (13:44.01)
like most businesses, as much volume as you could possibly attract to your pharmacy, and then you work to be very competitive on price locally. Uh, you'd research what other pharmacies were charging for drugs. You anticipated, um, you created certain schedules of, um, drug pricing where, Hey, I know this is a top mover. Um, we're going to dispense this drug all, all day long. We want to be really competitive on this drug.
Um, so we'll mark it with kind of a smaller markup because we know we're going to sell a lot of it. And, and that made sense. Uh, that worked. Um, the 10% of patients at the time, um, that did have drug coverage. That was not any trouble. We could handle both. Um, and over the years, um, actually in, in 2005 is when Medicare Part D started. That was a, um, proposal by president, uh, George W. Bush.
to help seniors with their drug coverage on Medicare. And over the last 20 years that has changed so that now in today's world, only about 10%, it's flipped, only about 10% of people don't have some sort of drug coverage. So back in the day, we were able to just attract patients the normal way that you would. You would reach out to their doctors, you'd have good relationships with physicians' offices.
Um, so that if they had a problem, they, they would call you, they might even refer a patient to you. Uh, you put advertisements in your local newspaper. Um, the idea of advertising on social media wasn't even a thing back then. Um, yeah.
Lee Murray (15:14.626)
Okay.
Lee Murray (15:27.09)
That's right. Yeah, well, that's good too, because we have a broad audience here, you know, business owners and leaders that are in multiple different types of industries and services. So I think pulling out one tactic that you did that worked in the past is helpful for them today because they're not in the highly tumultuous industry that you're in currently. And I think the one thing I would pull out of that is that you would reach out to these doctors and form relationships.
Jesse Brashear (15:34.678)
multiple industries and services. So I think pulling out one tactic that you did that worked in the past is helpful for them today because they're not in the highly tumultuous industry that you're in currently. Yeah. I think there's one thing I would say.
Lee Murray (15:53.19)
you know, to inform those conversations and have an actual line of communication. So, you know, reaching out to what other people might call partnerships or strategic partners that are also talking to your customers is a great avenue for building relationships that, you know, they give, they give gifts for a long time. You know, you, you build that one relationship and that is going to help you for, for a long period of time. Okay. That's, that's a great picture. I appreciate that. Cause I, it shows that there was a time that it was normal.
Jesse Brashear (15:54.071)
to inform those conversations and have an actual line of communication. So, you know, reaching out to what other people might call partnerships or strategic partners that are also talking to other customers is a great avenue for building relationships that, you know, they give gifts for a long time.
Jesse Brashear (16:17.998)
Okay, that's a great picture, I appreciate that, because it shows that there was a time when it was normal, and you probably never foresaw this issue of, how do we actually just care for a patient? So let's go back to our other conversation now when we were talking about this issue that you're currently in, and you're hopeful that it's gonna resolve on various levels. How are you approaching growth now? How are you...
Lee Murray (16:23.134)
And, you know, you probably never foresaw this issue of, you know, how do we actually just care for a patient? So let's go back to our other conversation. Now that we were talking about this issue that you're currently in and you're hopeful that it's going to resolve on various levels. How are you approaching growth now? How are you thinking about I know you mentioned trying to be strategic and, you know, look at the whole picture?
Jesse Brashear (16:45.89)
thinking about. I know you mentioned strategic.
Lee Murray (16:51.51)
I think there are a lot of people that are listening that are in businesses that are having issues in their industry, regulatory, you know, I've talked to lots of businesses that are highly regulated and they are constantly having to, you know, look around the red tape and figure out what the red tape even says, you know. So, so I'm curious to know how you're, you're trying to grow through this.
Jesse Brashear (16:51.69)
I think there are a lot of people that are listening that are in businesses that are having issues in their industry, regulatory. I've talked to lots of businesses that are highly regulated and they are constantly having to look around the red tape and figure out what the red tape even says. So I'm curious to know how you're trying to grow through this. Yeah, so the pharmacy industry today still has multiple avenues.
available to them for growth. Um, we still are active on social media marketing. Um, that has been really helpful to us, uh, in the last year and a half. Uh, we've got a great, uh, following in the various social media channels. Um, and we work with an outside agency that helps us with that. I outsource that to try and take that and grow that to the next level beyond what I had been doing as a business owner. Um,
Lee Murray (17:44.402)
Yeah, that's great.
Jesse Brashear (17:47.31)
You know, just like any business owner, you can't do everything. You're not going to be good at everything. Um, for us, it made sense to hire somebody outside and outsource that. Um, we still bring, so our goal is still to bring in, um, patients every day, new patients, uh, but then we have to be more strategic with who we're actually going to. Not every patient is a good fit. Um, not every patient or not every customer is a good fit for a business. Um,
Lee Murray (17:51.274)
Mm-hmm.
Jesse Brashear (18:15.942)
And so we've got to find ones that make sense for us and who have, um, payers and, um, prescriptions that make sense for us to the dispense. Um, the regulatory part of this decision is also pretty difficult. Um, on the federal level, there are federal agencies that have seen issues in our industry, not with Breshears pharmacy, but with pharmacy as a whole, where
Lee Murray (18:23.016)
Mm-hmm.
Jesse Brashear (18:44.51)
In our country now, you've, you've probably heard about that there's an opioid crisis. Well, um, in the past, some chain drug stores were dispensing way more opioids than they had any reason to do. And so because of when the federal government tries to make changes, they do so in a wholesale way and affect everybody. So, um, even certain sorts of, uh, certain controlled substances that were normal for us as a pharmacy to
to dispense. The federal government has seen fit to lower our ratios of what we can dispense. So which all just makes life harder on patients that are legitimate and that we need those medications. So you sort of get in on all sides. Oh, yeah. With the market itself.
Lee Murray (19:26.356)
That's right.
Lee Murray (19:32.254)
So you sort of get hemmed in on all sides. I mean, the market itself with the payers and the government then regulate regulating more, you know, swiftly. That can be a lot to manage at the same time.
Jesse Brashear (19:43.721)
That can be a lot.
It is a lot to manage and I feel especially hard on, or I feel especially soft towards pharmacy owners that have one store because one store, one pharmacy, one business location in our industry makes it very difficult to have enough staff that you can look at all this data, that you can look at these analytics, that you can...
have time to manage your social media and attract new business. We were able to grow years ago to two locations. And that has been very helpful to see us through these changes nowadays. We've tried to grow again. We've tried to look for right opportunities to add new stores to our business about four or five years ago.
couldn't find the right deal at the right time. And, um, I talked to a, um, pharmacy owner just yesterday that was looking at selling and asked if we would buy it. And because of changes in our industry that are ongoing right now, I didn't think that was a safe business decision. So, um, I know that all of business is hard, uh, because it's personal to me. Pharmacy feels more difficult than some with all the different
um ways that it's being attacked and yet it's been good to our family. It's been good to uh we feel like if Brashear's Pharmacy wasn't here we want to be the kind of business that if Brashear's Pharmacy isn't here people would notice that we're not here anymore and that there would be something missing. Um and I think that's a way that being able to market ourselves in that way also helps us grow that people want to join us and be a part of what we're doing here.
Lee Murray (21:38.794)
Sure, I could see that. You've talked a lot about organic growth by using marketing. Have you considered looking at any type of strategic investment outside investment groups or partnerships as a means to growth?
Jesse Brashear (21:40.302)
He talks a lot about organic.
considered looking at any type of strategic investment outside...
Jesse Brashear (21:55.222)
Yes, we have tried without much success, but have certainly made several overtures to partner with local hospitals to help patients transition home. For a year, we had a really highly skilled employee working in one local hospital, helping patients get bedside delivery. We thought that would be of great benefit to the patient. And we thought it'd be great benefit to the hospital.
and might help us attract new customers.
Jesse Brashear (22:33.266)
And unfortunately, because of the changes that were still going on in, in hospital, um, the hospital industry with, um, nurses leaving in droves with nurses, always pursuing the next highest paying position and not having a lot of stability with their employees turnover. Um, we never could get to the right. Um,
Lee Murray (22:50.378)
turn over.
Jesse Brashear (22:57.642)
We never could get to the right gatekeepers in on each hospital floor. We are always having to constantly inform them, reteach them that we're there every day, that we were available, that we could help in this way. And after a year, we just had to kind of cut our losses. It wasn't growing the way we wanted it to. So we've always looked for new ways to grow. Um, 10 years ago, um, we bought equipment to help us, um, provide a new level of service for, for patients.
Lee Murray (23:00.518)
Yeah, that makes sense.
Jesse Brashear (23:26.706)
to help them stay out of nursing homes. It would organize their medications by day and time of day that they needed to take it. That continues to have great success in patients' lives that we really enjoy seeing. You know, when you can...
Lee Murray (23:39.892)
Okay.
Lee Murray (23:43.274)
So is that like a countertop type of dispensary or how does that work?
Jesse Brashear (23:48.699)
So I know what you're talking about with the countertop. This is, we dispense it in a little box about the size of a paperback, large paperback book, large hardback book. And it comes off in little strips that they can just tear off every throughout the day when they need their medications. But they don't have to fumble around with pills. They don't have to remember, hey, did I take this or not?
Lee Murray (24:01.403)
Okay.
Lee Murray (24:13.97)
Yeah.
Jesse Brashear (24:15.259)
So it organizes that form. That's been a great help. Help us grow.
Lee Murray (24:19.31)
Yeah, I love that. That's really good. So it seems like you're really listening to your customers about how they are utilizing the product essentially, how it's affecting them in their lives. I'm sure that just the nature of your business, you probably hear more than you wanna hear across the counter about their lives and the things that it's affecting. But listening though is your job too, is...
Jesse Brashear (24:21.45)
It seems like you're really listening to your
Thanks for watching!
Jesse Brashear (24:30.574)
how it's affecting them in their lives. I'm sure that just the nature of your business, you probably hear more than you wanna hear across the counter about their lives and things that it's affecting. But listening though is your job too, is how do we take these insights and the feedback they're giving us and turn them in something that's more valuable to them? It seems like you're doing it. Yeah, one of the things that I've always tried to do, Lee, is not silo myself. We're an independent pharmacy, but I...
Lee Murray (24:43.742)
how do we take these insights and the feedback they're giving us and turn them into something that's more valuable for them? It seems like you're doing that.
Jesse Brashear (24:59.862)
work very hard to network with other pharmacy owners like myself to learn best practices. I attend a trade show every year, not because a trade show, not because the trade show presentations are all that good. Very often it's the same presentation you heard the year before, but the chance to network with other people in our industry and learn what they're doing well, what's not working for them, who's come up with a new idea.
that others can put to use. That's something that every business owner should be doing, just is getting out of your business and talking to other people in your industry and learning what works best.
Lee Murray (25:42.982)
Yes, for sure. That applies across the board. Are you so trade shows, exhibitions, conferences? I'm sure. Are you part of any type of co-op or organization, an association of sorts where you can sit across like minded pharmacist and talk about your business?
Jesse Brashear (26:04.798)
Yeah, some of that happens at those trade shows. And some of it, a lot of it happens on Facebook and in Facebook groups for our industry. So that's, that's really productive for me and for others, I think you can ask questions, give answers, help other people, encourage them, equip them, teach them. Very often you'll.
Lee Murray (26:07.303)
Okay.
Lee Murray (26:13.022)
Oh, right. OK. Makes perfect sense. Yeah.
Lee Murray (26:25.328)
Mm-hmm.
Jesse Brashear (26:29.222)
I've been doing this now 20 years. And so I've seen a lot of things that others that have just been doing this a few years just haven't seen yet. And so it's fun to me to, it's fun for me to be able to go and take my knowledge base and share it with someone else, uh, kind of like engaging on this podcast.
Lee Murray (26:31.111)
Mm-hmm.
Lee Murray (26:46.398)
Sure. Yeah, that's great. Well, so it sounds like you're navigating the waters and you're discerning what it is that you need to do with your business and your business model, maybe even to make it through these copy waters. If you could look out into the future, if you had a crystal ball, do you see this changing drastically or do you do you see it just being
Jesse Brashear (27:10.062)
Do you see this changing drastically or do you see it just being part of...
Lee Murray (27:14.398)
part of the new nature of the business you're in.
Jesse Brashear (27:18.326)
Do I see a light at the end of the tunnel? I, I have to. Yeah. Um, I think there will be, I think legislatively it's going to ultimately lead, take, um, it is legislation that has caused this mess in our industry. It's going to take legislation to see a path outward out of it. Um, and.
Lee Murray (27:20.754)
Right. Yeah.
Jesse Brashear (27:45.966)
I mean, some pharmacies are going to survive. Some already aren't. And that's the nature of capitalism. Right. Um, and, and that's okay. Sometimes in some situations, those businesses weren't set up for success. Um, we're doing everything in our power to set our business up for success, to see ourselves through to the other side, um, managing costs, hiring great people. Um, and.
And just trying to look to see where we can and finding the right customers, with the right payers, all those things. That's what we can do. Um, we look for new services that we can provide. We look for new ways we can advertise. Um, we had this unfortunate thing that we just could not capitalize on. Um, just a few months ago where we had a, um, a post on TikTok get 600,000 views within a few days.
Um, tick-tock is not something that I spent a lot of time on, but my social media marketer tells me it's important. Um, but we weren't, we're a brick and mortar store. We always have been. And, um, 600,000 views on tick-tock doesn't necessarily help the brick and mortar store, no matter how much I wished it would. Um, so we learned from that, that maybe we need to figure something out for that the next time we go viral. Um, so that. Right.
Lee Murray (28:59.242)
That's right.
Lee Murray (29:07.686)
Right. Yeah. How do you capitalize on that opportunity? Yeah. Right.
Jesse Brashear (29:12.042)
Yeah. So that was a failure on my part that I didn't manage how to capitalize that. But, you know, learning from that and getting ready for next time.
Lee Murray (29:20.574)
Right. Yeah, well, that's great. This has been very informative. It's helped me, you know, have a little peek inside to the pharmacy business. I'm sure everybody's watching has gotten some from this because there's so many lessons to take from these hard, you know, waters, these choppy waters that you're trying to navigate all the businesses, all the people who are watching this have some hurdle that's either coming or has just passed or they're currently jumping over it. So.
Jesse Brashear (29:29.742)
watching has gotten something from this. There's so many lessons to take.
Jesse Brashear (29:39.642)
All the businesses, all the people who are watching this have some hurdle that's either coming or has just passed. Or they're currently...
So thanks for being so transparent and insightful about the things that you're going through. I appreciate that. Thank you, Lee. Yeah, great having you on. So we'll wrap it up there. Anything else you want to say to an audience of CEOs and business owners?
Lee Murray (29:49.366)
Thanks for being so transparent and insightful about the things that you're going through. I appreciate that.