The Future of Emerging U.S. Cities & An Economically Diverse America with Julie Huls, Founder & CEO of Waymaker Group
In this episode of Exploring Growth, host Lee Murray speaks with Julie Huls, founder and CEO of the Waymaker Group. They talk about the transformation of mid-sized U.S. cities in response to technological advancements, particularly AI. They explore the need for a long-term vision and the challenges in engaging entrepreneurs. The discussion emphasizes coalition-building and modernizing strategies to foster innovation and resilience in these communities.
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Julie Huls
00:00:00
That actually is the key to that's the key to success is understanding that transforming an economy takes a minimum of ten years, and a lot of cases longer than that. transforming an economy today requires not just understanding what you have at your fingertips that can be parlayed into the future and be applicable to technology based economies. It also absolutely mandatorily, if that's a word, demands coalitions.
Lee Murray
00:00:37
Welcome back to Exploring Growth. The topic today is focused on this idea of what happens to mid-sized cities when technology, thinking about AI a lot, when it moves fast and it kind of favors those who are closest to it. I'm pleased to be sitting down today with Julie Hall's founder and CEO at the Waymaker Group. She's involved in some very interesting work. I think you'll find helping emergency emerging cities or mid-sized cities mobilize their citizens, their institutions and their entrepreneurs. So welcome to the show, Julie.
Julie Huls
00:01:12
Great. Good afternoon. Great to be with you. Thanks, Lee.
Lee Murray
00:01:16
Yeah. You know, when we were introduced, the the sort of phrase of building a more economically diverse America stuck out to me in all the things I read about what you guys are doing.
Lee Murray
00:01:32
And then when we were able to sit down and kind of talk about what we were going to talk about on this show, I kind of was able to sort of scratch the itch a little bit. On what does this mean by economically diverse America? So I want to get into this conversation. But first tell us a little bit about yourself. Maybe your, you know, about your story, where you came from and, your company.
Julie Huls
00:01:55
Very good. Happy to. And and you hit Really? right in the in the center of our mission. And our mission really is driven very much by my personal and professional background. I started the company ultimately to ensure that our middle tier cities in the middle US were getting access to really groundbreaking and effective practices as it relates to centering economies around technology. We know that technology is not going to go anywhere. You're right. AI is going to impact all of us. It's already started. But the question really is how can we move out of some of the old traditional and local only methodologies and mindsets that we have been using traditionally in this country and really embrace, proactively embrace what we know is going to be transformative Formative change.
Julie Huls
00:02:56
So that background really was was informed and, and I would say very much driven and defined by some early experiences I had growing up in the in the middle US. I was raised actually on a farm in central Illinois, Champaign County, and really watched and experienced the decline of the agricultural and manufacturing economies in that part of our country. Right. And I'm not alone. Those declines impacted millions of us in the middle us. And so while the powerhouses that we know today, the powerhouses of tech were building their ecosystems 30 and 40 and even 50 years ago, and I'm thinking specifically about markets like Boston and Silicon Valley, there were millions of the rest of us who were maybe lagging in a in adopting new technologies and definitely lagging as it relates to embracing technology. When it comes to to forging new economic development principles so that hopefully sort of ties in sort of where I think we're headed as a country, right, in terms of all of us really need to be thinking about how we center economic growth. And very especially, you know, how do we make sure that all of our citizens get equitable access to opportunity in technology? And we can define, by the way, technology very, very broadly.
Julie Huls
00:04:27
I think that's an important point too.
Lee Murray
00:04:30
Sure. Yeah. I mean, because you have technology advances in different domains like manufacturing. Absolutely. And and then of course, you know, with all of the, B2B SaaS companies that are providing a certain type of service on the other end of the spectrum, you know, it's very it's varied and it's very, complex.
Julie Huls
00:04:53
No.
Lee Murray
00:04:53
And so when when we break this down, you're meeting with these sort of mid-sized cities or do you also call them emerging cities or those.
Julie Huls
00:05:02
We do. Yeah. All kinds of terms for them. Right. Middle tier markets, middle US cities, emerging markets, nascent markets. And I would say we have we have really quickly developing ecosystems in the middle us too. We can talk about that.
Lee Murray
00:05:17
Yeah. Yeah. So at the heart of what you're doing, you're really talking about something that I think is, is on a lot of people's minds with this onset of AI and that is job loss or, you know, kind of rethinking how people work.
Lee Murray
00:05:34
you know, the onset of the internet that redefined how we work. And now you've seen that play out, to where we have people that, you know, a lot of people work remotely now, I don't know what the percentage is, but it's pretty high percentage. and I it's funny, I was talking to a client of mine the other day about this clip I saw on Elon Musk talking about work from home culture and how hee hee hee hee. It was like, not really. Maybe an absolute thought that he had, but it seemed like it, he was very much against the, work from home or Laptop Warriors, as he called them. I thought that was kind of interesting. You know, he's he's making cars and rockets. And so he looks around and says, look, there's people here, you know, making things. And I get that not all jobs are actually putting your hands on something and making them. There is a management aspect to it that has to be there. And yes, you know, there's a lot of thinking that involves, you know, not necessarily putting your hands on something and that could be done remote.
Lee Murray
00:06:35
So I'm kind of I'm not really necessarily 100% behind his thinking there. but it is it is interesting how our work has changed over the years. and now with the onset of AI, we're going to see it change even again and and and more exponentially I think so as that plays out in the local, aspect, because you're working with cities to help them sort of, you know, take the vision that they have for what they want their city to be economically and, you know, and help them walk towards that, that vision. So how does that how does that play out when you talk about like, remote work and, hybrid work and, you know, in-office or onsite work because there's, there's all kinds of things that are part of that discussion.
Julie Huls
00:07:26
Yeah, that's exactly right. Well, and I think we start actually at a place that is probably the, you know, what, 30,000, 40,000 foot level, meaning how do we get to your point to a place where we have more human beings that are walking around in very dynamic environments? We know that these dense, dynamic environments really do foster creativity.
Julie Huls
00:07:52
They foster. You know, problem solving. That's, by the way, why place based economic development is really getting its time in the sun. That's something else that we specialize in. and so so we really start sort of with those major questions. Right. Has the has this particular community suffered from economic decline? In a lot of cases, the answer is yes. Or they've suffered from just really stagnant economies. Have they suffered from population loss. And that is something that you can imagine is pretty painful, not just to the community itself and to small and local businesses, but also, of course, to the economy. And then the question really, again, starts with what might this particular region or community have at its fingertips that will enable it to take steps forward into the future and into technology. Right? And in some cases, there is an AI component. In some cases there's not. We are talking about actually maybe AI or other systems based technologies impacting, you know, traditional manufacturing businesses.
Julie Huls
00:09:06
Right. And so we really start our work by getting to know some of the key leaders. This is, by the way, hard work turn to transforming economies is you said complicated. Yeah. Yeah. Requires the work of a lot of human beings there in market. And it is it's not just arduous. It takes a long time to turn an economy around.
Lee Murray
00:09:30
So getting everyone to work together, that's probably the hardest part.
Julie Huls
00:09:34
Yeah. And I really.
Julie Huls
00:09:35
Want to spend a moment on that if we can at some point, because that actually is the key to that's the key to success is understanding that transforming an economy takes a minimum of ten years, and a lot of cases longer than that. transforming an economy today requires not just understanding what you have at your fingertips that can be parlayed into the future and be applicable to technology based economies. It also absolutely mandatorily, if that's a word, demands coalitions. Right. And that's sort of a technical, even a government term. But to your point, it takes a these individuals working together.
Julie Huls
00:10:22
A lot of wordplay has been given to that concept over the years. But I'll tell you, just as a practical matter, you know, we know that and a big part of the help that we also offer to markets is to help them find funding for these efforts. Right? Believe it or not, turning economies around is very also a very expensive business. Some of our major federal programs, there's a lot of major money out there right now from coming from the feds, coming from private industry, coming from even philanthropists. They are saying, we know that this is hard work. We are no longer going to give to a single institution. So to answer your question, we we come into a market, we identify who are the champions, who, for example, represents the entrepreneurs in this group, who represents the technology CEOs. Right? Who are who are those individuals? Who are the government entities, who are the higher education entities workforce and, you know, training entities? And then how can we look at what they have? And then finally, how do we begin to truly assemble healthy, sustainable partnerships and dynamics that will lay new groundwork and and form the basis of a new foundation that we know is going to work in tech based ecosystems, right? Those are new concepts for us in this country as it relates to economic development.
Lee Murray
00:11:53
Yeah. And you mentioned having everyone working together is is key. And I agree that's what everyone's trying to do it with everything. Right. It's just super hard. It's it's super.
Julie Huls
00:12:03
Special.
Lee Murray
00:12:04
Yeah I mean you have all these different parties. You mentioned the funding. You have the entrepreneurs or the the actual companies. You have the institutions, cities, the citizens, you know, the politics of it all. It's a very complex animal to understand and, and have all kind of rowing in the same direction as you go into new markets and you're working with your clients. what are some of the key ingredients that you would point to that kind of apply to anywhere you would go of success? Meaning if you go into, you know, somewhere in Ohio and they're saying, hey, here's our here's our vision to, this is what we want our city to look like. And here, you know, what are you looking at for key kind of ingredients that, you know, when you look around? Okay.
Lee Murray
00:12:52
Yes, this will actually work, you know, when we start working together.
Julie Huls
00:12:56
Yeah. Great question. And hopefully this is inspiring to your audience. By the way I love what you're doing. What you're doing is very important. Right. Making sure that we are sharing information about entrepreneurial and business growth best practices is very similar to what we do. We're doing it sort of at this at, you know, at a city level or regional level. But but the practices to answer your question are really the same. To to put a finer point on it, we really have to and we go straight towards where there is a high concentration of industry leadership. And by that what I mean is are there entrepreneurial organizations Within that market, do they? Are they representing founders or more established companies? By the way? We need both. We need the early stage companies to have a voice in these economic development efforts. We need seriously, you know, and certainly that is, later stage companies to have a voice in this.
Julie Huls
00:13:57
The short answer is we have to work in markets where there where industry has an organized presence. And that's where a lot of reasons training partners don't know how to develop training programs unless they know which jobs they're training for. Funders cannot write checks, towards these transformative efforts. And unless there is an industry voice at the table for for many years when local, when business was strictly local, it made sense for us as a country to give to single institutions. Right. We were giving the feds, for example, were giving millions of dollars to higher education institutions. They were giving them to other local or state governments. And now those funders are saying, we could do that, but we're not going to do it until there's proof that there's a business voice at the table. Yeah. So I would highly also encourage your audience to get involved in some of these efforts. It sounds boring, but but great news it's not. Yeah. Another piece of great news. We need your voices sitting around these tables.
Julie Huls
00:15:08
Yeah.
Julie Huls
00:15:09
We can't be effective in designing, you know, future economies until we understand where business is going. Business is driving all of this growth. Right.
Lee Murray
00:15:21
Do you need sort of these incubator type of you know it's I'm thinking of like a food hall right. For restaurants but like incubators that have lots of different, startups. Do you need something like that to really kick things off? Or does it matter if a city doesn't already have something like that in place?
Julie Huls
00:15:41
Yeah, that's a great question. it doesn't matter if they if they don't have an incubator or accelerator structure or program or entity, we don't need one. What we still need, however, is some sort of an organized, presence of activity. Right. And it can be it can absolutely be informal. Right. We are working in markets in fact, right now that are emerging that don't necessarily yet have incubators or accelerators and, and maybe the chamber, the local chamber of commerce, which has been the sort of traditional local business place for, for for CEOs to go, maybe they're not really into sort of where we're going.
Julie Huls
00:16:23
And that's okay too, where we are working with informal networks of early stage companies. And then of course, we're working with some of the, you know, fortune 500 companies, even fortune 100 companies individually and other markets that we serve.
Lee Murray
00:16:38
Yeah, it sounds like I mean, and I'm not I don't want to put words in your mouth. I'm just saying this as an observation. I it sounds like the old school traditional, kind of, kind of chamber of Commerce approach needs to be modernized. I mean, it's been it's in my opinion, I haven't been a part of a chamber of commerce, and I don't know how many years. Yeah. And I don't really know how much value they bring to the local local service based company. You know, that knocks on doors, right? I don't really know if there's any value there or not. So I don't want to speak negatively on it. But I think in large part if you were to do a poll, most people would say, yeah, we need basically a modern day version of what the chamber's role was.
Lee Murray
00:17:21
And I think, your company coming in and, and, you know, kind of corralling all of these different entities is, is, the start of that. It's just like the start of trying to rebirth what the old chamber was.
Julie Huls
00:17:35
That's right. Yeah. And I think you've got it. I have, I have to say, you know, we we don't want to throw every chamber of commerce out the window. I know that's not what you said, but but I but I and I have to also sort of brag that we actually right now are working with a handful of very progressive chambers of commerce. Right. Chambers, though we we can say this in a blanket fashion. And that is and this is very was very, very true in Austin. I spent 25 years in that market and ten of which I led, the Austin Technology Council and the Chamber of Commerce in Austin was absolutely visionary. They were pro entrepreneur. They were pro technology. But way before many other chambers around the country were all of those things.
Julie Huls
00:18:22
So I have to give them major props, and I have to also just give some of our current clients who are very progressive chamber, chambers perhaps, but. But generally speaking, yes, you are very right. And I think it's not even just about sort of blowing up the old chamber model. It is also us as a country looking at all of our systems, right? Because our systems are no longer serving, for the most part, industry, our workforce, training programs. I don't care who you are. I don't care if you're a higher education institution, a technical college or community college. Again, I'm not throwing all of them under the bus because they are. We have a number of amazing clients in each one of those categories. But but the more successful institutions and agencies and chambers, are the ones who 20 years ago adopted these protect pro entrepreneur, pro-business principles and policies. Right. They are they are segregating programming by technology cluster. Right. They they if for example, they have aerospace, they have a high concentration of aerospace and defense entrepreneurs.
Julie Huls
00:19:29
They are really catering the event, the networking, the resources within that market to that section, to that category of entrepreneurs. And same goes for biotech etc.. but these are best practices again, in our in our more advanced markets, mostly on the East and West Coast, that they have been practicing for decades. Some of us, a lot of us in the middle part of the US are just catching on to it. But last plug for for, you know, my friends here in the middle, US and our clients, they are adopting very quickly and they are deploying very quickly. Covid lit a fire under everyone. It really has been a serious impetus as it relates to adopting these pro tech policies sooner rather than later.
Julie Huls
00:20:16
Yeah.
Lee Murray
00:20:17
Yeah, I could see that. and so as I listen to what you're saying, I guess what I, what I take from it is that their focus really is more on the entrepreneurs and making sure that they have. And. Technology companies making sure that they have what they need to grow in their environment.
Lee Murray
00:20:34
That's right. Because of course, economically, that's where the new revenue is going to come. The new jobs are going to come. Absolutely. So then it's aligning those sort of almost like a consortium formally or informally between those companies with the the city and other parties that are, that have, have. Wait.
Julie Huls
00:20:52
Is that exactly.
Lee Murray
00:20:53
Okay?
Julie Huls
00:20:54
Yeah.
Julie Huls
00:20:54
You've got it. And and the, you know, cities again that are, that are open and all of the cities we work with are almost desperate to connect to this band of entrepreneurs, right, regardless of technology, category. again, because first of all, entrepreneurs don't have time, right? I'm betting that 99.9% of your CEOs or executives that you, that you, you know, cater to through your podcast, don't they don't have time to show up to meaningless meetings at City hall, etc. so I respect that. But the progressive and the smart municipalities, state governments, higher education institutions that are so desperate for that kind of engagement, they wised up really quickly to what it takes to corral and to engage those entrepreneurs.
Julie Huls
00:21:47
Right. And it takes time. The other note I have to mention is that smart public entities that are seeking and eventually secure the engagement of your audience also recognize that there's a language barrier, right? There's a we know already. Obviously there's a culture massive culture barrier, right? Business leaders live and breathe to get things done and to move quickly and to experiment and to break glass and to fix problems and to grow and to hire and to revenue and government. In the past, I think things are changing for the better. Has not been motivated by any of those things, right? Higher education in the past has not been motivated to do any of those things. And so, again, the more savvy public institutions are bringing these business groups, the entrepreneurs, to the table and saying, we know that we don't speak your language. So please tell us how we can help you. Tell us what you need. Let's recognize there's going to be a language and some culture and even timing right? Barriers.
Julie Huls
00:22:59
But but again, savvy ones are going to be persistent. And they're going to be smart about how they speak to entrepreneurs and really get them to come to.
Julie Huls
00:23:07
It sounds like it.
Lee Murray
00:23:07
Sounds like vision is really at the core of all of this, because if there's a strong vision and you have people in the city that are behind that vision and hopefully a part of or instrumental in casting that vision, then it's going to start to take shape. As I'm thinking more through this and we're talking, I'm thinking about the entrepreneur business, you know, business owner company that I'm just wondering, you know, yeah, they don't have time. They don't have time to really think about this as being a problem or being, you know, thinking about any solutions. They're working to build their company. Right? I think that when it comes across their desk, it has to do with their top or bottom line, you know. And so so I'm wondering like, what is what's in it for them on the front end of building all of this out? Because I think that there's a lot of benefit on the on the mid to end of building this out where they get the benefit of the ecosystem.
Lee Murray
00:24:06
Right. but if, if it's at sort of the beginning, you know, what's the benefit to, to them.
Julie Huls
00:24:15
Yeah.
Julie Huls
00:24:15
Great question. And I have lots of answers. Let me touch really quickly first on the vision piece. And then I definitely will answer your question about what's in it for entrepreneurs. The vision piece actually is the hardest part. It sounds easy. I think business executives, founders, entrepreneurs are really savvy about this. They they are, trained and cultured over many years to practice the art of articulating a vision, testing a vision, refining a vision, pivoting from the original vision or second or third vision because.
Lee Murray
00:24:53
They have to be.
Julie Huls
00:24:54
Focused. Yeah.
Julie Huls
00:24:55
I mean, that's just part of that's just part of our DNA. that is not the case for public entities. I don't have to tell you. And again, I have to be careful. I don't want to throw everybody under the bus here, but they.
Lee Murray
00:25:08
Know I think everybody understands.
Julie Huls
00:25:10
Yeah.
Julie Huls
00:25:10
It's just sort of not part of their culture.
Julie Huls
00:25:12
And so again, the savvy public entities are the ones who are going to put the Australian vision out on the table. But then say to industry, we need your help. We? We know that we developed this with our lens. We need to know a number of things. First of all, does this resonate with you at all? Second of all, please help us as a public institution understand where your technology is going. Help educate us about AI. I mean, there are so few policymakers or folks within higher ed, unless you're a researcher in this arena that understand what AI is, what is quantum, how is it going to impact society? How is it? How is it going to impact my economy? So there's a lot of education, language barrier, etc., right. And vision articulation that I think these two entities, for profit and, and public entities can work on together. And, and I cannot emphasize that enough. There's a lot of upfront work that really needs to happen there.
Julie Huls
00:26:13
And then to answer your question about, you know, what's in it for an entrepreneur? I would encourage your entrepreneurs to get engaged because they have, first of all, the leverage. Second of all, government has the ability to make changes in arenas that are actually very important to business leaders. Talent recruitment. Right. There are a number of states and cities that have really developed some interesting, policies as it relates to bringing talent in from other markets. Right? A lot, a lot of cities and states have historically been incentivizing businesses to, increase job creation within their respective markets. The other sort of, and this is this is a relatively new trend, but government is getting more and more involved in they've always been involved in things like housing, childcare. And I would even I would put sort of place making in this in this bucket. Right. But what are the things School districts. Right. School performance? crime. There are a number of, levers, if you will, that impact companies very directly.
Julie Huls
00:27:27
Right. If you're an executive and you're trying to bring in new employees from out of market, and they can't find homes that are affordable to live in their market, that's something that's a lever that their respective city can can push on. I've been in a number of conversations between state governments, local municipalities and major companies that involved housing supply. Right. You wouldn't think that would be a normal sort of economic development thing, but it is same child care, right? And same with literally the sort of, the almost like customer experiences that entrepreneurs and their employees have within a city. Right? That's what Austin got. Right? That's another thing that Austin got. Right. And I'm going to brag about folks that I got to work with, with Chamber and Opportunity, Austin, etc. they were amazing about promoting. Not that you know, hey, if you're a tech employee, come to Austin. They that was a secondary sort of value proposition. The first one was come to Austin because we're we have great stuff to do.
Julie Huls
00:28:29
We're fun city, we've got art, we have music, we have this amazing outdoor lifestyle. Come check out our barbecue and our other restaurants. They led with the lifestyle and the place making your place specific qualities. And so those are the levers that cities can pull. That business is really need to kind of again be.
Julie Huls
00:28:49
Articulate about yeah, yeah.
Lee Murray
00:28:51
Yeah. That's when I think of Austin, I think of food and music. I haven't been yet, but that's what I, that's why I would want to go.
Julie Huls
00:28:57
Yeah. Right.
Lee Murray
00:28:58
Yeah. And to think now that it's becoming a tech hub and, you know, all these other things that it's becoming that I don't even know. Yeah. it's really it really is a good I mean, a shining star example. you know, so I think manufacturing. Okay, you have cities that do have an industry, of some size, and you want to attract new people there. So you have to you have to focus on all of these things.
Lee Murray
00:29:27
Right? And you have to look at how can we put our best foot forward and work through the next decade of building what we want it to be, because we have what, you know, assuming that, automation in I don't, take away those jobs that we want to create for manufacturing. That whole plan makes sense. What about keeping entrepreneurs that are doing something that is very tech forward? and they're looking at places like Austin and, and Boston and New York and these other places where they could just move there and be part of that scene. They don't have to wait eight years or however long, you know, how do you keep those people there?
Julie Huls
00:30:08
Yeah, yeah, that's another great question. What we are finding is that a number of these middle tier cities, and I'm thinking about places like, you know, we're working right now in Oklahoma City, Wichita, Kansas, by the way, on fire. There are there are smaller markets, right. Lansing, Michigan is on fire right now.
Julie Huls
00:30:29
Places. Madison, Wisconsin on fire there. There are these pockets of, communities that are doing the lifestyle thing very, very well. And what we are finding is that younger generations in particular are saying we maybe we go to New York or Silicon Valley or Boston or some of the other. We can put Austin in that category for the first few years of our career. Yeah, we get skills. We we work alongside, you know, really inspiring peers. But we're working in a really deep pool. But at the end of the day, my value system is a little different. I actually don't want to work 14 hours a day. I don't I don't want to work ten. I you know.
Julie Huls
00:31:13
That's a good point.
Julie Huls
00:31:13
I want to have a family. I want to have a life. I like, like, you know, like hanging out with the lake.
Julie Huls
00:31:19
Yeah.
Julie Huls
00:31:20
Exactly. And so we're finding that there is this exodus out of some of these urban markets, right? Especially, for entrepreneurs and talent of a certain sort of chapter within their life.
Julie Huls
00:31:35
And, and they're going to these smaller parking pockets because they can afford to buy a house. Yeah. They. Right. They are listened to by the public entities. Right. They have maybe these cities have really cool, you know, water features and river walks and other fun restaurants. Yeah. Like craft beer. Yeah. Center of gravity. I mean, it's like they're just there's.
Julie Huls
00:32:00
Values and.
Lee Murray
00:32:01
Activities.
Julie Huls
00:32:02
Absolutely. That's exactly right. That is clearly a driving force. Right? I mean, like 90% is not a real number. That's a made up sort of anecdotal number, but the majority of the of.
Julie Huls
00:32:14
A lot of people want.
Julie Huls
00:32:15
It. A lot of people want it. Yeah, they want to live healthy lifestyles. They're more focused on wellness and wellness first, career second. And so there actually is a bit of a resurgence coming into, you know, certain pockets of the United States, which of course, we love to see.
Lee Murray
00:32:32
It's funny too, because, anecdotally, I've talked to some colleagues and friends and some clients that are in tech and they've said that a lot of their friends that are have been in tech developers, engineers are getting out of tech, and they're moving into businesses like starting buying, businesses that are much more practical, you know, retail type businesses.
Lee Murray
00:32:56
Yeah. service businesses, outdoor businesses, partly because of the AI thing that's happening. They see what's happening and they don't want to be kind of squashed by it. So I think there's a little bit of a, you know, true practical fear and then some, some irrational fear. personal opinion. But then I think people are kind of just done chasing the tech, you know, behemoth and that whole lifestyle. So they want to get back to what, you know, living used to look back like back maybe in the 80s and 90s.
Julie Huls
00:33:27
That's right I completely agree. We're hearing some of the same things. And I think also Covid gave us a bit of an existential moment of of reflection, right? Where I think between younger generation looking to their parents and seeing their parents get completely burned out on that lifestyle, they're saying, first of all, I don't want that. And second of all, it wasn't even worth it, right? The money's not even that great anymore because I still can't afford to buy a house.
Julie Huls
00:33:55
or they're saying, you know, we just want to live a different life. We, you know, and I think also the, the remote thing that that verdict is still out. I think I'm a I'm a pro remote worker person. Just for the record, I don't have anything against it. And clearly every company just needs to make its own decision. But it's no accident that we're finding companies. You know, a lot of companies now are coming back and saying, well, we really kind of want people to come back to work. And we're hearing that a lot of people actually are welcoming that maybe not five days a week, but they're saying, man, I would just miss being around people. I just like the creative aspects of hanging out and trading notes, you know? And so I think we're living in this again, very transformative time. Everything is being transformed before our very eyes.
Lee Murray
00:34:44
Yeah. Well, I like your idea of and I wouldn't categorize it as just young people, but, you know, in large part younger people, that are going to move to these bigger cities to get their experience.
Lee Murray
00:34:56
I think that also applies to the younger companies, too, in the startup phase, you know, as they get into growth, you know, maybe second stage and they're getting some momentum, right? I think that these emerging cities, it's smart for them to reach out and understand who these companies are that are away and attract them back if they've been there before or so. You know, this is starting to make more sense to me. You know, sort of like this, butterfly effect, you know, more more so than just the linear path, of how how this works.
Julie Huls
00:35:27
Yeah, I completely agree.
Julie Huls
00:35:29
And I, and I think investors are wising up to this too. Right? So if you, for example, start a company in a small town in Minnesota and you go out to Silicon Valley and you, you know, get your funding and you establish a great network out there, I think, I think investors are getting a little bit more flexible about it, too, because because there is such.
Julie Huls
00:35:50
A.
Julie Huls
00:35:51
There's at least an increasing number of entrepreneurs who are saying, I can't, I can't do the rat race anymore. Right? Yeah. So I'll take maybe it takes me longer to grow my company.
Julie Huls
00:36:02
Right.
Julie Huls
00:36:02
Maybe I have to go to not just Silicon Valley sources for funding, but, you know, other networks in the upper Midwest. Sure. But but more and more people are making those choices.
Julie Huls
00:36:12
And a lot of.
Lee Murray
00:36:12
A lot of investors are understanding for that, that for themselves personally, too. So they're able to connect with that narrative.
Julie Huls
00:36:19
That's right. Yeah.
Julie Huls
00:36:20
Think about all the famous investors that I look back at, like my time during the Austin Tech Council when we were chasing, we were so desperate for venture capitalists to pay attention to Austin. Right. This was 15 years ago. So please take that. keep that in mind. But there were so many investors that we were chasing, both in Silicon Valley and even on the East Coast. And now some of those same entities are living in Austin.
Julie Huls
00:36:49
If you would have if you would have told me that ten years ago, I'd be like, no way. Yeah. It's great. It's refreshing. Right?
Julie Huls
00:36:56
It's getting interesting. Yeah.
Julie Huls
00:36:58
I have nothing against Silicon Valley or Seattle or. Yeah, or Boston Red. The overwhelming majority of all that venture capital is still flowing through, you know, roughly five markets on both coasts. And I don't have anything against that, but I do I'm really excited about the fact that investors and and, you know, entrepreneurs, folks are starting to understand that we have assets. There's all kinds of assets in the middle of us, right? We have crazy creative people. They fix things. They solve things. Our engineering talent is crazy deep. so yeah.
Lee Murray
00:37:33
I think it takes people like you, to come in and open the eyes of cities and entrepreneurs to what is possible because they're, again, working on their businesses or their working in their cities with other agendas, and they don't see that there's a connection that can be made there.
Lee Murray
00:37:50
So, so I think that, you know, I think that work is is really good work. A question came up in my mind, and this kind of goes back to vision a little bit, I think. Yeah. but I'm curious, what's the primary reason that you've seen that cities want to become one? If we were to call it innovation cities, right? Yes. When you work with someone, what's like the what's the primary reason that they want to they want to move. Yeah.
Julie Huls
00:38:16
Short answer. Single word talent. Okay. I think that, for decades, a lot of our cities have suffered from the loss of, especially their skilled talent. Right. There are, many, many parts of the middle us where you, you know, and as a kid, by the way, I can relate to this, right? I was raised in a very rural part of Champion County and, you know, got to the big city of Champaign-Urbana. And I was like, oh my gosh, what's going on? This is, you know, exciting that I started going to Chicago, and then I started going to Indianapolis.
Julie Huls
00:38:52
And so if you don't have enough to offer, if you're not catering to the career and lifestyle needs of your next generation. And by the way, if you're not thinking about that now, you should now be thinking about the talent that you need to retain 20 years from now in your city, right? Yes. And so that's the short answer. Cities. And there is there is an absolute direct effect when it comes to economic impact. Right. You've mentioned it before. I mean you're talking about all kinds of losses there economically. And and then that becomes sort of this self-fulfilling, cycle. Right? If you have young people that are leaving you, you, you know, the community just in general starts to get a reputation and then, you know, you lose your amenities and it just becomes a pretty negative. I mean, I've witnessed this again. I'm coming back to my smaller, hometowns Towns plural in the, in the, you know, rural parts of Illinois and just literally saying, you know, businesses are shuttering every day, every year and young people are not coming back and they're saying, I'm going to Chicago and I'm not ever coming.
Julie Huls
00:40:11
I mean, so so I think the yeah, the good news is we've been we are awake now, I think as a country, most of us. Right. And again, I have to give all of the middle US leaders that we've been working with and talking to for the last. We're almost going on ten years of services now, right? Ten years of service. And so there has, in the last 2 to 3 years been this massive awakening. Covid helped fuel that, I think.
Julie Huls
00:40:38
But yeah, I.
Julie Huls
00:40:39
Think people are are figuring out they need to keep their young people. That's a direct quote from a mayor that we worked with in southeastern Wisconsin. In the first meeting we had with him and say he we sat down and he said, I said, well, you know, why are we here? Why did you call us in to help. And he said, I'm losing my young people and I don't know how to stop it. Oh gosh. Okay.
Lee Murray
00:40:59
Yeah, that's kind of what I was getting at.
Lee Murray
00:41:01
Is that question right there, why are you here is a great way to start the relationship, I think just from a business standpoint. But but I think their answer is going to be so hopefully transparent and honest.
Julie Huls
00:41:11
Yes.
Lee Murray
00:41:12
You know, to to say, okay, this is what we're working towards. And that makes a lot of sense. If I had to guess that would be up there. Maybe my top three guesses on why a lot of these smaller, cities are, are looking for help. yeah.
Julie Huls
00:41:26
Yeah. Just one really quick thing I'll add is maybe answer number two. And that has to do with sort of how we started this phone call. And that is cities are starting to understand that it can't just be can't just be about a single entity solution. Right. There can't be a single entity leader. They are truly recognizing that because of the power of the disruptive power of technology. You will either be left behind if you continue to do business economic business in the same way that you've been doing it.
Julie Huls
00:42:01
Or you can get out there. Embrace the uncertainty that we all feel right as as relates to AI and just the impact of future technologies. and you can start now. Start today to build the trust. Right? That process takes time with your other, you know, key regional leaders. And you know, when we know that by the time the, you know, technology sort of hits the fan, if you will, what you've done, if you're successful is you have created this fabric of trust and you're solving very complex technology, driven challenges. You're solving those challenges with other bright minds within your region, right? Because there's not a single person who nobody understands what's going to happen with AI. We certainly don't know what's going to happen with quantum, what's going to happen with biopharmaceutical technology, genomics. I mean, name our technology. No one has really sort of an understanding of what the future looks like. If you would have told us a few years ago that we'd be we suffer from a global pandemic.
Julie Huls
00:43:13
No one had that on their radar. But if you're successful as a region and a regional leader, whether you're leading with a business lens or leading with a with a with a public, you know, sort of perspective, you have to be able to lean, literally lean on your on your fellow leaders to help really overcome what we know are going to be some barriers, right? We're going to have to solve for job loss and job shifting and disruption.
Lee Murray
00:43:42
Yeah, that helps me a lot to understand this more fully, because the question that I wanted to kind of end this with was, how do you plan for what will be relevant in five years or ten years from now as you're building out infrastructure. And I think and I you know, I want you to answer that question, but I think what you're getting at is when you start to build these connections between all of these different entities, and it stops the siloed effect, because everyone working together, then everyone is working towards this vision of what it should be, and they can all change together along the way.
Julie Huls
00:44:18
That you've got it. You you absolutely answer the question, right. We help we try to help our clients on a practical level, level, just get educated about what technology, you know, subject matter experts, where they see aspects of artificial intelligence and manufacturing or genomics and, you know, fill in the blank. You know, there is typically a combination of technologies that that will really warrant the most disruption and opportunity, right? We have to say that in the same breath. So we, we, you know, we we have a number of different data sources. We have a national network of SMEs that we bring in to talk to clients that have really deep, crazy, deep technical expertise. And they can articulate sort of where they think that industry or that technology is headed. That's important. Right? Because very.
Julie Huls
00:45:11
Important. Yeah.
Julie Huls
00:45:11
We're not we're not having those we're not reading those articles in the Wall Street Journal every day. Right. Most of us don't have an understanding of really what quantum is or how it's going to impact society.
Julie Huls
00:45:21
Same with AI. And so that's sort of the first step. But but you hit the nail on the head. And the more important nail, which is you know, in the past these entities have been acting alone. they have maybe been equipped to answer certain questions on their own in this siloed environment. But the questions now that are being brought forward with with the complexities of technology cannot be answered in a siloed environment. And so, again, to your point, what we're doing now is setting up new systems and systems that are that actually adhere to what we commonly understand to be pro-business or technology sort of cultural attributes. Right. This new fabric, this new group is being transparent with one another. They don't they're not coming to the table with all the answers. In fact, they're coming to the table with a lot of vulnerabilities and they're playing right. We have no idea how to train our candidates in artificial intelligence. Right. So but but then again, what you're doing is you're combining forces. You are combining strengths.
Julie Huls
00:46:31
You're sort of shoring up one another's gaps or misunderstandings or miscommunications. And you're developing this, this engine in this roadmap together, where at the very least you're embracing the uncertainty of it.
Julie Huls
00:46:44
All right.
Julie Huls
00:46:45
It's Right. Key to success.
Lee Murray
00:46:47
Right. I have this sort of philosophy that I've been saying a lot lately, and I'm going to continue to say, as I, we work with our clients on the single media side and with my consulting clients, and even here is that the future? I think the future is human. It's sort of powered by AI. Yeah. You know, and I think that, all of what you're talking about having cities do is, the connection piece. I mean, it's it's sort of a cliche, but essentially what we're talking about is building community, you know, a community among the different, domain leaders. And so that when there's community, then there's everything, you know, everything can be worked out towards a collective vision. that's probably the more hard part of the whole thing.
Julie Huls
00:47:33
But.
Lee Murray
00:47:34
assuming that there's some general vision that the city is going and you have these collective leaders now connected. You're talking about the SMEs. You know, just being connected to those people Yes, is a huge deal because what they said today is going to be different than what they're going to say in 18 months. No question. So being able to call them back and say, hey, you know, tell us again, what's the weather report look like? That's right. You know. Yeah, I think that is the the core piece to all of this working. obviously vision is a huge piece of this, but that community aspect is the next piece.
Julie Huls
00:48:07
No, you are 110% accurate. The overwhelming majority of the work that we do, you know, we certainly over ten actually if not 20 years have developed really solid methodologies. Right. But in in terms of, you know, our consulting practice and and we certainly have we have this amazing national network. and we have great experience over the last 20 years.
Julie Huls
00:48:34
And so we now we're at a place where we can very quickly recognize patterns. Right? But to your point, at the end of the day, what we do is solidly human based. We are coming into markets. A client will call us and say, well, help us win this major federal grant, because we're looking to infuse $50 million worth of investment into our market. And we say, absolutely, we can help you with that. But let's first have a conversation about what kind of a coalition, what kind of fabric do you have to support, by the way, the future, let's say you get the 50 million and you know, what is your story, what's your narrative, what's your vision? And most importantly, who is going to help you accomplish this $50 million goal, right? Right. Who who is sitting next to you? And so we spend, frankly, the most number of hours helping our clients develop, you know, definitions for partner strengths. We help them really think about truly leadership profiles.
Julie Huls
00:49:35
Right. Engagement strategies. it's very much still thankfully, a human based business.
Lee Murray
00:49:43
That's awesome. Julie, this has been really fun, I think. Thank you so much for coming on such a great interview and interesting topic, some very different than anything I've had on so far. So thanks for that.
Julie Huls
00:49:54
Thank you. I really enjoyed it also. Emily, thank you again for your leadership. Keep doing what you're doing. We need more intelligent, you know, speakers and spokespersons and and advocates and champions, especially as it relates to our entrepreneurs and our, you know, CEOs and growth leaders. We can't get enough. So I really appreciate the opportunity to be here today.
Julie Huls
00:50:18
Yeah. Well it's.
Lee Murray
00:50:19
Fun. if I want to send people your way that are listening to this and they want to find you, how can they find you?
Julie Huls
00:50:24
Yes, check out our website. We've got a form, there that will come directly, actually into my inbox. And that URL is waymaker-group.com.
Lee Murray
00:50:36
Perfect. Thanks so.
Julie Huls
00:50:38
Much.
Julie Huls
00:50:39
Thank you Lee.