The Adventures of Taking a Consumer Product to Market with Angie Ruff, CPG Consultant at Flavor Craft Consulting

In this episode of Exploring Growth, host Lee Murray chats with Angie Ruff, CPG Consultant at Flavor Craft Consulting. They dive into the complexities of bringing products to market, stressing the need to solve consumer problems while balancing technical and creative elements through effective storytelling. This episode provides practical advice for those navigating the product branding landscape.

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Angie Ruff 00:00:00 I tell my clients early on in the process, they're going to be days. I'm going to say something and you're not going to like it, and I'm not going to tell you that it's this is it. Hit the road, Jack kind of thing. I'm going to tell you to think about it. And then after you think about it, come back and let's talk about it. And if you can really convince me that you're the passion, example or reasoning is correct, and we can find a way with data to prove that it will work, then I will agree with you and we'll move forward.

Lee Murray 00:00:35 In the market, there's always opportunity for bigger, faster, stronger, better, cheaper. And then there's those ideas that are just completely unique and completely change our lives. One that comes to mind is the scrub daddy. I mean, who doesn't love the scrub daddy? Today I have the opportunity to talk with an expert in product branding and I'm very excited about this discussion. Today I'm chatting with Angie Ruff, Ruf, who is the product branding expert from Flavor Craft Consulting.

Lee Murray 00:01:04 Welcome to the show, Angie.

Angie Ruff 00:01:05 Thank you so much for having me today. I'm super excited to be here.

Lee Murray 00:01:09 Yeah. You know, our paths have crossed so much in the past. And I was like, you know, this this makes perfect timing. I have never had anybody on the show like you, and I am excited to explore this world that I scarily don't know very much about. This is not a world that I play. I play mostly in the service business, in the service based businesses, not the product oriented businesses. So I'm excited to to talk talk with you about this. before we got kind of jump into this conversation, we want to have give us a snapshot of your background. Like how did you get to where you are? How did you become a consultant to brands?

Angie Ruff 00:01:44 Certainly. So started off with, with engineering. but school for engineering always loved manufacturing. Love the process of taking something, all the parts and pieces and creating something completely new out of it.

Angie Ruff 00:01:58 And So that journey took me through textiles, plastic extrusion and then ultimately into food manufacturing. There I had the immense opportunity to learn from the ground up what it really takes to put products together before they're ready to go to market. That was through private label, through manufacturing, and even working for a brand that I had the opportunity to work for for 16 years. And on that side, it was the distribution side and the sales side, the promotional side, the landscape of a grocery store and anagrams and how to get that special slot and the best place right at the eye level. Yeah, yeah. and there it became, working with other company fractures after I left there running an entire plant which did multiple products of some pretty big name retailers that most of your audience would probably recognize, like Williams-Sonoma and Sur Le Top, and ultimately leading to me opening my own company Factoring Facility, which I successfully ran for six years, and I just kept finding a need that every time we'd have a new client come in, they there was just so much of the CPG world, consumer product goods world that they had lack of information on, and I found myself giving advice, looking for that and knowing that manufacturing was not going to be my my end goal.

Angie Ruff 00:03:22 I felt it was a beautiful pivot when the opportunity arose to switch into full time coaching and consulting for consumer product goods and helping them on their journey.

Lee Murray 00:03:32 Okay, so you have an engineering side of your brain, you know, and you and then you worked in the logistics of manufacturing. So you know how to build a product and then get it manufactured. And then later came the branding side, the creative side, which I think is unique because, you know, when I walk into all these different companies, I see people who are very siloed, you know, and it's just human nature. People are very engineering focused and they are in that box or they are very creative. And those two people don't usually talk. So it's unique that you have someone that has both sides of the brain firing at the same time. How how did that come together since you started kind of naturally as an engineer and then ended up on the branding side?

Angie Ruff 00:04:18 Oh great question. And honestly, I think it's it's really my own internal personality how I am.

Angie Ruff 00:04:23 Okay, even though I went to school for engineering, my minor was in theater. I was very much that theatrical person. But I'd go in and do the the scaling for sets and creating costumes and, and all of those kind of things. So it's always I've always had a creative side to me and a bit of an entrepreneurial bug as well. So I understand that journey. I it's very I'm very lucky to have both of those aspects. And a lot of my manufacturing career was spent explaining the tech and the, the mechanical side of things to the creative and sales and marketing team, and vice versa. As the marketing team would say, look, we really need the product to look and seem like this. And again, a gift that was given from above for me to be able to be that liaison and speak both languages, if you will.

Lee Murray 00:05:15 Yeah. You know, to have somebody who is that person and I call them an interpreter or a translator, right? Like to have somebody who sits in between both of those fields and can say, okay, art people, this is what they're actually thinking.

Lee Murray 00:05:28 This is what they're trying to do. And I know it sounds kind of off putting, but you have to think about it from their perspective and then vice versa. You know, that person's very valuable inside of a company. But typically, as your path holds, those people are don't find themselves in a box because in order to be at a company, you have to almost choose one side or the other, or you have to own the company. So there's the entrepreneur side.

Angie Ruff 00:05:54 Yes, very much so. Could not agree better. You feel like you're constrained when you have both of those sides, when you're in the corporate world, because there's red tape and policies to follow, and while all those are fine and well, and they have their place when when you have both sides, it definitely is difficult to stay in a lane.

Lee Murray 00:06:12 So you've got lots of years of deep domain experience of creating products and manufacturing and taking them to market inside of companies you work for with big brands, and then you go on your own and you have the entrepreneur, which is a whole different thing.

Lee Murray 00:06:26 I mean, everybody, a lot of people listening to this can can identify with it, but people who are have not been entrepreneurs that are working in companies, they don't understand the brain shift of what it's like to run a company. You know what it's like to take on all the extra responsibility and risk that goes with starting at your own company. That's helping these brands get things manufactured and and taking them to market. So you've had that small business entrepreneur, you know, hat on for quite some time. That's such a well rounded perspective for, you know, one of your clients coming to you and saying, how do I how do I go from A to B? I mean, it's it's like that prism of light that you're looking through is real versus, well, I can tell you how to get a manufactured, but I can't really talk to you about art. You know, I, you know, I can tell you about a logo, but I can't really tell you about what's going to look like on the shelf.

Lee Murray 00:07:20 Right?

Angie Ruff 00:07:21 Correct. Yes. That that does happen. I have had other people come to me and say, oh, I hired a consultant, but they didn't know CPG or they only need one aspect of it, not from, you know, soup to nuts, literally.

Lee Murray 00:07:33 Right, right. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, we've known each other for a little while. So I know, you know, some of the things you haven't mentioned is, actually helping clients with co packing, right. For, for food distribution and distribution, you know, distribution channels and networks. you know, I think the people who are listening to this that are in a world that we're going to dive into here in a minute. Taking our product to market, CPG are going to know, okay, like these are these are the main kind of tenets of what I'm looking at. And it's so awesome to know that you have touched every single one of those in a very meaningful way. So this is it's really exciting to talk to you about this whole topic.

Lee Murray 00:08:15 So what I want to do is I want to kind of take us on a little bit of an adventure here and go down two paths, okay. All right. So the first path that I want to walk down is for the person who has that unique idea to think like patent, right. And they want to take that to market. the one that comes to mind is, you know, I went to Stetson University and was over there doing some work with them and their business school, Princeton's entrepreneurship program, helping them. And they had a girl that came through, and she invented this. It was like a, a little tool that you use in the kitchen to take the parsley off of the stem. And so instead of using your hands and getting part stem and part leaf, you know, here, here we are in like first world problems. Right. But but she had this tool she invented that was printed. And you know, you just take your cilantro or your parsley and you slide it through and instantly you have it in ready to cook in your dish.

Lee Murray 00:09:13 And I think she, she took it to it wasn't Shark Tank, but it was another similar show like that and won a lot of money and had a lot of and she had a lot of success. Took it to, to market and, and everything like that. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about, is something that is very unique and creative in the market. that's the first path. The second path we want to examine is the person who has a product that they just think is better, faster, cheaper, you know, greener, some edge in the market that has competitive advantage over the rest of the people in the market, but they're kind of similar to other products. So are you up for that?

Angie Ruff 00:09:48 Let's do it.

Lee Murray 00:09:48 All right. Let's do it. So the first path the person has a unique idea where I mean, let's just start at the beginning. Let's say I'm that person. I have this idea, and someone told me I should talk to you. Like what? This is a brand new thing for me because I.

Lee Murray 00:10:03 I'm a creative person. I just come up with ideas. I don't know anything about CPG and retail space and all of that.

Angie Ruff 00:10:09 Help me. Sure. Let's do it. So you've got this really cool new idea. First thing we do is we actually go, okay, what's the problem that your idea is going to solve? At the end of the day, you're not solving someone's problem. We could make the best thing on the planet, but if no one's going to buy it and it's it's it's a moot point. So before we even go down the line of all the other fun stuff that we're going to talk about, that is the most important part is we make sure that it's really solving a problem. Once we get on that, then I ask some pretty simple questions. I ask questions like, so if money were no object, yeah, where would you want to see this sold? Who is the ideal person that you want to sell this to? What problems is? Is it going to solve? Is there already something else out there in the market similar to it? And you know how what why is your product different? Once we get to that point now we start talking about real product development.

Angie Ruff 00:11:03 And in that depending on the product, if it's food, then we're working with a food scientist. If it's something that's more product driven, say like a tool or a game or a toy, then we're working with product developers in that, in those fields to make sure that we're aligned with all the appropriate, things that are, you know, that the government makes us to have to be there, you know, the consumer protection. Sure. There's all the regulatory stuff for us. We create a portal for the client. That way they know every step of the process and all the checkmarks that have to happen. Gotcha. We create a manufacturing brief all the way down to what's the plastic that we're using, what's the metal we're using, what's the ingredients that we're using. And really start to create the process that's necessary so that when the customer is ready to scale it, not just prototype it. We know all those things in the beginning, and we know what the cost are going to be. So we're not creating the Taj Mahal.

Angie Ruff 00:12:04 And then six months down the road, oh crap. We have no way to sell this because no one can afford it. Yeah. So those are that's the beginning piece is we just start really working on all of the product pieces around there.

Lee Murray 00:12:17 So it's sort of like discovery, you know, and digging into the path forward.

Angie Ruff 00:12:24 Correct. And then from there, the next person for us, once we have identified everything that's going to look like all the parts and parameters, we've done a Swot analysis, we've done a regulatory analysis, we've done all of the parts and pieces for preliminary branding because the name could change before we finish. Yeah, that happens actually more often than you would think. And then that's there's nothing wrong with that. I mean this is all Conceptual. Everything that it is, it's it's the dream part. It's the exciting, the fun part. Then we get into the meat and potatoes. Can this be, you know, truly scalable? Do we need to find a community factor? Is this something that the client can make themselves? What all goes beyond that? And a lot of times people have a business coach at the same time that they're working with us, and we let them kind of navigate some of those other challenges if they want, because at the end of the day, the overall company profit and loss statement could have other factors be on this product.

Angie Ruff 00:13:20 Sure.

Lee Murray 00:13:20 Yeah.

Angie Ruff 00:13:21 And so we want to make sure that everything stays in alignment and that we're making something that's profitable moving forward. in that second phase we start working on what are our target opportunities, our distribution channels. We start working on price point analysis and getting everything. What is the final packaging going to look like? Colors. We start working with a graphic designer. We don't do the graphic design in the beginning because so many elements could change leading up to that point. and then after that, we start talking launch strategy. Where, where are we going to launch this? And one of the key things that I can tell you, especially when you're talking about something that's in an idea stage where you think it might solve that conversation we had in the beginning may not end up where it actually does get sold, right. An example could be maybe you have a health and wellness product that you want in Whole Foods, right? But your actual client is really shopping at the vitamin store down the street and not going to Whole Foods to do that.

Angie Ruff 00:14:18 So right now it's a path is it big box retailers? Is it small retailers? Is it small mom and pop shops? Is it online only? Is it various e-commerce? There's more than just Amazon. I always like to tell people, you know, there's so many different.

Lee Murray 00:14:34 And that's a question I had for you to kind of at this point in the the conversation is, are you talking to businesses or primarily brick and mortar or boat or hybrid, online or or hybrid.

Angie Ruff 00:14:46 It's really hybrid. generally, I mean, it's you see some that are maybe only going brick and mortar, some they're only going, online. And then you have the ones that, well, maybe we, we split it and we do a little bit this way, a little bit that way. again, it just depends on the product and where their target market is. Shopping.

Lee Murray 00:15:03 Yeah. And I would think that a lot of it has to do with pricing because, you know, it has to be, you know, pricing dictated by the who's buying it and the, the value to bring to their, to, to them in their lives.

Lee Murray 00:15:14 and then what through what channel you're selling it. But how much time do you spend on pricing and, and do you sort of try to navigate that with their business partners?

Angie Ruff 00:15:24 100%? We navigate through pricing. That's why we're so focused in on the Khamenei factoring experience. Okay. I mean, honestly, materials can and labor can kill your price point, right. And as a former company and a brand owner, I, I know all too well what the can look like and how you can get very quickly. another example in the food industry is you have people that have the the best rub or the best spice, right? And they come and they bring you your recipe, and then you find out they're using a McCormick blend or a media blend or something else at Lowry's is another one that's not the holistic ingredient. And so now your production is dependent upon their supply, and then your cost is dependent upon their cost. So I always encourage people to reverse engineer down to the minuscule native ingredients. So it's really your own project.

Lee Murray 00:16:19 Yeah. Yeah. Okay. You know, it makes me think and I don't know how it's weirdly connected. Maybe it's not, but, I like bourbon whiskey. And there's, I found out after kind of getting into it, I thought that I was drinking all these different whiskeys, but I was really drinking a large part. The same with bourbon that came from some distillery in Indiana. And, and once I realized that, I was like, oh, wow, there's a lot of bottles on the shelf. That's really the same thing. It's just a different label That kind of opened my eyes to, okay, this is not unlike any other cereal brand or any other thing that were there manufacturing things and putting different labels on them.

Angie Ruff 00:16:57 Right? Yeah, it is, and it is true with everything, with tools, with games, with toys. I mean, it's, you.

Lee Murray 00:17:06 Know, one that comes to mind. And I would love to know if, you know, for, for some farfetched reason, if you know the answer to this, if we go to Aldi, like I shop at Aldi and I guess like during, Girl Scout cookie season, they will have cookies that are identical to the Girl Scout.

Lee Murray 00:17:24 Like it'll just be one flavor. And the only reason I think they are the same is because when you take the cookie out, not only is it look and taste the same, but the marks on the bottom from the belt where they was put are the exact same as the I looked at them. I'm like, this is the same cookie.

Angie Ruff 00:17:39 Yes. So it doesn't have any of their own manufacturers. there you go. Out. Request for bid on almost every product that you see that is under the Aldi label. And sometimes what they'll do is they'll even encourage combing factors just to have like a white label brand that they'll bring those in. And as long as it hits the price point, then they can do that. So generally, the way that works with manufacturers, because there are, you know, challenges with that, that the recipes have to be protected through the Food Safety Modernization Act for any. So I don't want people to think, oh my gosh, I just gave my recipe to a company and it's going to be stolen right there are you do have to have permissions to be able to use another person's recipe that you're already packing for, or it's changed just enough to be a new product.

Angie Ruff 00:18:28 So a lot of times it might be more sugar, less sugar, more salt, less salt, anything that's going to move the needle about 10 to 15%. Now you have a new product. And so yeah, you'll see the same mold. You'll see the same process. It's very hard to get anything patented And in the food industry because people just make things at home.

Lee Murray 00:18:49 Yeah, that's it just blew my mind when I saw it. I was like this. I'm sorry. No one's going to convince me this is not the same cookie.

Angie Ruff 00:18:56 I can't say for sure if they're getting it from the same manufacturer or not, but I can tell you, I've been on the bid process side for Aldi and have experienced that very same thing.

Lee Murray 00:19:06 Yeah. Okay, so back to this, this path. Sorry, I took us off track for a minute.

Angie Ruff 00:19:10 That's okay. We had fun.

Lee Murray 00:19:12 Yes we did. the the unique idea to take it to market. You've taken us to like phase two.

Angie Ruff 00:19:17 Where we were getting ready to go into three for launch strategy.

Angie Ruff 00:19:20 Yeah, let's do it now. We're now we're launching. Now we're ready to say, okay, we know where we're going to put the product. We know how much it's going to cost. We know, you know, we're ready to launch its launch day. We've already worked together with creating the pitch decks for the retailers that you want to be in. Now you've got some traction. You're in some of the stores. And at this point then we just help with ongoing satisfaction making sure that you're combing your future is doing what they're supposed to do. Doing those quality control checks, helping you navigate the challenges at retail, which the scariest one that I can tell you is the day that I had a $70,000 invoice go to a very major large food distribution company that will not be named. They only have four letters in their name. I let someone figure that out and I got a penny check because of all the deductions that go along with food distribution or any type of distribution. I've seen it even in the world of sporting goods at some of our, you know, local sporting goods stores.

Angie Ruff 00:20:21 It just it's astounding when you're going into a store. Every slot is considered a piece of real estate. Some of those stores, retailers charge you a slotting fee for that slot on the shelf, and then you have spoilage allowances, even if your product doesn't spoil. They're thinking maybe some kid could, like, walk down the aisle and knock it off or break it or slash the packaging, or there's damages that happen in transit when it ships. So you have those challenges as well for having to do a spillage allowance or an advertising allowance or a promotional allowance, and then they want you to do all these other things to move your product off the shelf in the the biggest thing that I stress, even I stress it in the beginning too, is that just because your product gets in the store, it's not the retailer or e-commerce sites job to sell your product. It is still your job to sell your product. They are just the convenience point for a consumer to find you there.

Lee Murray 00:21:25 Like the depot.

Angie Ruff 00:21:26 Correct.

Angie Ruff 00:21:27 So that that goes for every major retailer out there. Yeah. So we help continue to guide those challenges and pitfalls. We review distribution contracts. We review promotional schedules with them. We still go back and align that with that. you know, suggested retail price. To make sure that they're staying profitable in the process.

Lee Murray 00:21:49 Right. So the thing that sticks out in my mind and, what I'm drawing from this, too, is thinking about the customer experience with a unique product. So if there's a new product in the market, it's got to be the hardest thing to educate the customer on why they need it. If it doesn't just absolutely make sense by looking at it. What like what part of the process do you work with your clients on addressing that educational curve that the customer is what may have with the product? Is that sort of in the discovery phase?

Angie Ruff 00:22:26 And we do it at both a basically phase one, phase two for us. So phase one during the discovery phase, is this something your customer will understand? Explain it to me like I'm a third grader.

Angie Ruff 00:22:35 Yeah, that's what I say. And if they can't, then I tell them, okay, your homework is GT. Yeah. I didn't want you to do. And then tell your tell chatbot GPT to tell you back how to explain it to you like your third grader. And if you can't find a random third grader on the street that can understand what you're talking about, there's chances are your client's not going to understand that either. So we do it there, and then we do it really hyper focus during the packaging stage. If it's not clear on the packaging, people might pick it up and think it's interesting, but it's not going to go in their cart because they're they're not going to have the trust factor to be able to move it down the line.

Lee Murray 00:23:14 Yeah, I've seen that. I follow a guy who's, another expert in branding on Instagram. And, he's has his own brands that he sold through TikTok. And he's he works with brands, and he explains a lot of this stuff.

Lee Murray 00:23:27 And it's really it's really cool to see his thinking, you know, about packaging, like when you look on the shelf and you see something that has, you know, it's it's the color is denoting the flavor. And are they making the flavor more prominent in an icon or color? Or is it consistent across? So, you know, it's strawberry, grape, you know, blueberry, all of that stuff. The psychology of that is really interesting of how people in an instant will make their snap decision about whether they get it or don't get it.

Angie Ruff 00:23:56 It's the same thing with even, you know, again, taking seasonings as an example. Typically you see red on beef, yellow on chicken and pink on pork. It's just it really is an unspoken rule almost. Yeah. And if you delineate from that too much you could confuse your consumer.

Lee Murray 00:24:14 Yeah. And if it doesn't make sense to them, I think within a matter of seconds of them getting their attention. And then you have a lot of marketing dollars you got to spend to try to educate them.

Angie Ruff 00:24:24 Yes. And that's just that's just silly. We could have already solved the problem. Well, well, in advance, 100%.

Lee Murray 00:24:30 Here's a here's an odd question, but, I mean, someone that's going to be bringing a product to market like this that's unique. They, they I would have to sense that they are very passionate about it. Right. So how do you kind of manage their passion with the reality of what, you know, the road is that they have to walk.

Angie Ruff 00:24:50 That is an excellent question, and I love that question because I tell my clients early on in the process, there going to be days I'm going to say something and you're not going to like it, and I'm not going to tell you that it's this is it hit the road Jack kind of thing. I'm going to tell you to think about it. And then after you think about it, come back and let's talk about it. And if you can really convince me that you're the passion, example or reasoning is correct, and we can find a way with data to prove that it will work, then I will agree with you and we'll move forward.

Angie Ruff 00:25:25 At the end of the day, it's their product, not my product. Sure, I can't say those things, but all I can say is I either advise for or against, and I will always give the data driven facts as to why. I think that's Thankfully the engineering side.

Lee Murray 00:25:41 Yes, yes. Yeah. That's your backstop, which is always a good backstop. our art is not necessarily a good backstop for those kind of conversations.

Angie Ruff 00:25:49 No, no.

Lee Murray 00:25:51 So we're going to we're going to now switch to the second path, which is the person taking a product that is just in some way better in some way to to market, but similar to other products that are there, there's competition. Before we jump into that, would you say it's easier to take a product to market with similar products or a completely unique product? And how is it different I guess?

Angie Ruff 00:26:14 Yeah, I think I mean, the excellent question. I believe it's going to probably depend on the space not to give you a vague answer, but if you've come up with something that's never existed before, then people are going to really have to have some education as to why they need it versus not.

Angie Ruff 00:26:31 I think back in the days of, well, let's just really roll it back and make me sound old, when clearly Canadian hit the scene in the 90s and everyone was like, why am I buying water at the store? And because at that time, bottled water was not really a thing. No. so. But then, of course, it caught on because it was like, well, our water has flavor. And then now you don't you can't leave without a bottle of water when you leave your house or your Stanley or whatever you're carrying it in.

Lee Murray 00:27:00 It's funny how that works.

Angie Ruff 00:27:01 Yeah, yeah.

Angie Ruff 00:27:02 It's incredibly hilarious.

Lee Murray 00:27:03 The shift of psychology and how we think about things.

Angie Ruff 00:27:05 Yes, yes, absolutely. So when you say, you know, which is an easier way to go, it's going to depend on a lot going on with the space. I think if it's if it's something that's really solving a problem, people may just hands down, oh my God, where has this been in my whole life? I can't wait to get there.

Angie Ruff 00:27:24 Let's do that. at times that can be more difficult to produce because no one's seen it and everyone's trying to wrap their heads around it. But in some instances, it's actually easier to sell because everyone's looking for the next great thing now. But that being said, now you asked me on the flip side. It's easier to get things produced if it's already in existence. So you can take an almond butter, for example. Or maybe it's a doll that you have to change its diapers. Whatever it is, these things are already being made. It's just making your tweaks to make it your product. For the type of client that wants the problem you're solving or the enjoyment that they're looking for. So on the production manufacturing development side, it's easier because you're not having to create the process and procedure. Now at market, you have to really show why you're different, and you have to make sure that you're visible, not just to the retailers and to the e-commerce stores, but to your end user. And that is that is definitely a different battle to get to versus the guy that's just got something new because everybody likes to hear something new.

Angie Ruff 00:28:35 But do I really need another almond butter? I guess I do, but, you know, that may not be someone else.

Lee Murray 00:28:42 What you're saying is, what percentage of the market really needs another almond butter? It could be a sizable percentage to support your product or not.

Angie Ruff 00:28:48 Right, right. Or why is yours so different? So perhaps maybe you have an almond butter that you're infusing vitamins into it with monk fruit. And so you have an alternative sugar base rather than utilizing typical cane sugar or beet sugar. Now you have something that's different. If it's like infused with ashwagandha, and I can have some almond butter toast and be totally chill, then yeah, that might be my jam, but I might put some jam on it too. But it sounds.

Lee Murray 00:29:16 Like something you find in the Pacific Northwest.

Angie Ruff 00:29:19 Exactly.

Angie Ruff 00:29:20 So it really just depends, you know, on in that situation, what makes the product different. To go on there, I think that the the biggest category that is the hardest category to crack into is hot sauce.

Lee Murray 00:29:35 Okay. And you. And you would know that with first hand experience.

Angie Ruff 00:29:39 Yes yes, yes.

Angie Ruff 00:29:42 And when someone comes to me and says, I have the greatest hot sauce, I'm like, oh, I really hope so.

Angie Ruff 00:29:47 Yeah, it really helps.

Lee Murray 00:29:48 Let me try it because I want, I need it.

Angie Ruff 00:29:50 Yes. Yes.

Angie Ruff 00:29:50 I would love to see the best hot sauce. Is it really. I mean, it's it's made TV shows out of it. You've got hot ones. I don't know if you've seen that TV show, so it's.

Angie Ruff 00:29:59 Oh, yeah.

Angie Ruff 00:29:59 Got a following behind it, but there are so many. So it really depends on.

Angie Ruff 00:30:05 What there's so.

Lee Murray 00:30:05 Much to, to stick out and to stick with. you know, it's like, actually what it makes me think about is story, right? how much is story important to all of this is kind of the art side of it, right? Like the creative side story is important to the whole thing. And I'll kind of go down a rabbit hole a little bit here.

Lee Murray 00:30:25 I mentioned scrubs at the beginning, kind of tongue in cheek, but, you know, I think that and I would be curious to see what you think about scrubs. Is it is it an innovative new product or is it the same as everything else, right? I look at scrubs and I think, well, first of all, I think a lot of people bought into it because they saw it when Shark Tank was at its height. And there's a story. The guy did a great job on the pitch. It just made sense. You could put your fingers in these little holes. It makes a little smiley face. He doesn't want a smiley face as a scrub brush. And it just like it was like one of those infomercial type of things. That's like, of course I'd buy this. And what is it, $3 or $5? You know, it just fit all the all the right boxes. And I think that this because of the platform, obviously because it hit masses of people. But the story part of it, it just sort of captured people quickly and it made, you know, it made sense and they went for it.

Lee Murray 00:31:16 I think that has to be a big part of selling that ashwagandha, you know, almond butter, like if you want to be, if you want to be enraptured with I'm about to put this on my toast and chill like that story is probably what's going to sell that butter 100%.

Angie Ruff 00:31:34 And when you speaking specifically on Scrub Daddy, you have to think of I mean, he's creating emotion. And at that point, that is truly what differentiates every other scrubber out there compared to his product. And you can create emotion. You've got it sold.

Lee Murray 00:31:54 Yeah. And there was another, I think, mother and son that came on that show later, and they had a peanut butter. I can't remember what the name of it was, like Jefferies or something like that. And it's really simple. I think it even looks like Peanut Reese's Peanut Butter Cups on the on the label, but it was priced like 30 or 40% above all the it was natural, but it was priced way above. And they sold.

Lee Murray 00:32:17 I mean, it just because I think it was the story.

Angie Ruff 00:32:19 Of this Justin's.

Lee Murray 00:32:20 Yeah. And it's the child doing this, you know, dreamy thing, and everybody wants to be connected to it. I mean, it probably wasn't all of it, but I think that story really had a lot to do with that success.

Angie Ruff 00:32:31 Yes.

Angie Ruff 00:32:31 Storytelling, story, branding, all of that comes into play, and that really can set your your product up for success compared to anything else on the market.

Angie Ruff 00:32:42 Okay, so 100%.

Angie Ruff 00:32:43 Everything now because we're.

Angie Ruff 00:32:45 Agreed that kind.

Angie Ruff 00:32:45 Of community.

Lee Murray 00:32:47 Agreed. Okay. Let's let's now shift to the second path. Someone's bringing something, you know, not new inherently to the to the market. How different is that process?

Angie Ruff 00:32:56 Well, generally we're not looking at product development or the manufacturing piece right away. We're looking at why are you not achieving the goals that you set out to do. Sometimes it's price point. And then sometimes that brings us back to the manufacturing piece.

Angie Ruff 00:33:10 Can we overall lower your cost of goods? Can we look at some materials or ingredients, depending on the type of product that maybe needs different, different vendor, different resource? Is there too much labor to make your product, or is it just not something necessarily? That is, there's room in the space in the market again, but going back to story, like we just talked about. Do your people just not know you're here?

Angie Ruff 00:33:36 Yeah.

Lee Murray 00:33:37 Yeah. that's a huge one. I mean, which I think since we're just on it, story could really change. You know, if you get that story in front of people, it helps them have awareness of something that's unique about your product.

Angie Ruff 00:33:48 Right. So I encourage brand owners, and I actually am working with one right now. I'm so incredibly proud of her to to be bold and to share your story and to tell why your brand is everyone should choose it at the end of the day and when you can get past that. And for some of these entrepreneurs, because they've never done anything like this, there's imposter syndrome.

Angie Ruff 00:34:10 I think of Jamie Kalima with IT cosmetics. I mean, her story is incredibly, very much that she was in her house making these products. And then now she's, you know, doing amazing things with L'Oreal and beyond. And but it was that whole imposter syndrome that she had to get passed through. And when we identify that perhaps it's not necessarily the product, but the business owner that might be having the challenges. And if they're working with a business coach, then we we work with them through that process. This is what we know the product can do. This is what we need the business owner to do. And if they don't have one, then we guide them as much as possible. And of course, always try to align them with the right coach and other vendors that can get them where they need to be. But ultimately it's just identifying, okay, why? Why aren't you? And another example is maybe you're selling in the wrong markets. Maybe you are in a Whole Foods or sprouts or something like that, and you really should be in the small vitamins shops were perhaps maybe you really should be in Kroger or Publix, right? It just depends on on the product.

Angie Ruff 00:35:17 You know, which which direction you go. So we just really look at problem solving, analyzing each detail of that, why they're not where they think they should be. another example here is it may not have anything to do. Maybe the cost of goods are beautiful. Perfect price point on point. They've got a strong marketing strategy. Okay. Why is it still not moving forward? Perhaps the relationship with the distributor that they're choosing isn't strong. An example a food brand. They had sold significant products into a large distributor. It was supposed to go into a large retailer. It never made it to the retailer and the brand owner didn't know. Who would think they would know that they should be following up to make sure that the product left the distribution facility and fulfilled those orders.

Angie Ruff 00:36:08 Right.

Angie Ruff 00:36:09 And so, unfortunately, in this particular brand's case, their product became short shelf life before it ever made it to market. And they lost all of that product.

Lee Murray 00:36:18 Wow. That's devastating.

Angie Ruff 00:36:20 It is. And so knowing which doors to open, which, you know, covers the lift to see where those challenges are, is so critical.

Angie Ruff 00:36:30 And in and key to get it passed and and help them find where they're supposed to be going.

Lee Murray 00:36:37 Yeah. I mean, if, you know, further degrees like an MBA can get give you sort of a roadmap to what it looks like to, you know, correctly, you know, outline a PNL for, for a company. I think the things the, the path that you can demonstrate for someone is, is very much the same in that, what you're talking about are years and years and years of experience of having physically empirical data. You've you've walked that path and you can look back and say, okay, well, yeah, you don't want to step there, but you want to step there. I know it looks like you want to step there, but you probably want to stop there. You know, that's invaluable. I mean, what what would it it makes so much sense to spend a little bit of money and save hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars in time and energy and money, you know, going down the road.

Angie Ruff 00:37:27 Yes. I have had several clients go, man, I wish I would have known you sooner. I wouldn't have made XYZ mistake.

Angie Ruff 00:37:33 Yes.

Angie Ruff 00:37:34 And and it's it's one of those things. You don't know what you don't know. And you're grateful when you find someone that does.

Lee Murray 00:37:40 Yes, 100%. yeah. And I would just say just like to put a button on that. I was like, I look at consultants because I'm one as trail guides and problem solvers. They're they're people that can either have gone before you, it can tell you the, the path to walk or, and, or have that external perspective. And they're not deeply connected to the passion that you have that's going to emotionally drive you. They can say, well, if you step back and look at your product in this way or your business in this way, you will see that the data says we should probably rethink this. you know, and I've worked with this person and this person to my left and right that would verify that, you know, versus someone walking that path alone.

Lee Murray 00:38:25 And it really is like a hall of mirrors.

Angie Ruff 00:38:28 Yes. Yes it is. And you think you're down one corridor and you turn around and you smack yourself in the face.

Angie Ruff 00:38:33 Smack yourself in the face.

Lee Murray 00:38:34 Yeah. Well, this has been awesome. And thank you so much for kind of taking us through this. I think we'll have to have you back. I think it would be would be fun is to to look at a brand and break it down, you know, and maybe do kind of like an analysis. So as I, I love this world. I mean, I have a lots of, you know, non expertise, opinion about the CPG world. Like if I go into I can tell you right now, like I go into Walgreens and I look at their in their pharmacy section and you just look I have pictures of them on my phone. I've sent people like, someone's got. Something's got to change. You look down the pain, the pain relief aisle and it's it's like, I don't even know how to describe it.

Lee Murray 00:39:18 You have everything looks exactly the same, which has to be a big issue for, you know, regulatory and like, people taking the wrong things because one bottle looks exactly like the other. This one does completely different than this one. And then on top of that you have Walgreens or CVS. discounts, buy two, get one and 50% off all those stickers. It's like has has no one looked at this shelf in like 20 years?

Angie Ruff 00:39:42 That's interesting. You should bring that up so.

Angie Ruff 00:39:45 I.

Angie Ruff 00:39:45 Can talk about this one.

Angie Ruff 00:39:47 You need to like.

Lee Murray 00:39:48 Hit record again.

Angie Ruff 00:39:49 All I.

Angie Ruff 00:39:49 Have to talk about dynamic pricing and a lot.

Angie Ruff 00:39:52 Of oh yeah.

Angie Ruff 00:39:53 Retailers are going to digital shelf.

Angie Ruff 00:39:55 Tags. Yeah.

Angie Ruff 00:39:56 Right. And yeah it's.

Angie Ruff 00:39:57 Oh yeah the digital shelf.

Angie Ruff 00:39:59 Right. Yes. So a lot of what you just described, the retailer will tell you it will be solved. But there are some dangers from the from the brand standpoint.

Angie Ruff 00:40:09 Sure.

Lee Murray 00:40:10 Yeah. Because they can't control the pricing which affects everything up or upstream from what they just created.

Angie Ruff 00:40:17 Yeah.

Lee Murray 00:40:18 Crazy. I mean, but just from like I think from a user standpoint, like user experience, I walk in the store, I'm looking at the shelf. None of it makes any sense. Now I have to have a doctorate in the pharmacy to just understand how I get this little pain to go away, that it's supposed to be right here in front of me. But now I'm looking at 50 options and they all look the same. So that's something really wrong with that. Sometimes it's like I'd rather just walk out and keep my headache because I'm getting worse. One sitting here looking at this product.

Angie Ruff 00:40:45 Yes.

Lee Murray 00:40:46 You know.

Angie Ruff 00:40:47 That's fantastic.

Lee Murray 00:40:48 All right. We'll have you back and we'll go into all that because.

Angie Ruff 00:40:51 Sounds good.

Lee Murray 00:40:51 I think that'll be a lot of fun. But if people want to find you, where should they go.

Angie Ruff 00:40:58 So they can find me on LinkedIn? My Angie ruf, I'm pretty easy to find. Yeah. With flavor craft consulting, you can email me at Angie at Flavor Craft consulting.com.

Angie Ruff 00:41:11 Those are my socials are pretty much all the same. So you can find me on all of those. And I'd love to have conversations with anyone that's got an idea or already has one. And they're feeling that pain.

Lee Murray 00:41:22 That's awesome. Yeah, definitely. Go check it out. All right. We'll have you back. Thanks a lot.

Angie Ruff 00:41:27 Thank you.