The Democratization of Employee Benefits with Brandy Burch, Founder & CEO of BenefitBay.com
Join our host, Lee Murray, in this episode of Exploring Growth as he speaks with Brandy Burch, founder and CEO of BenefitBay.com, about the complexities of employee benefits and healthcare. Brandy shares her expertise in benefits management, focusing on the importance of addressing diverse employee needs and empowering employees as healthcare consumers.
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Brandy - https://www.linkedin.com/in/brandy-burch-24389536/
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So we want to make sure we get
it in place where it does
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improve that experience for the
employer and the employee.
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So it's got to be both right.
We've got to keep our businesses in
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business or there won't be jobs.
So we need to talk about it's
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actually an ecosystem and it
can't be one sided.
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And it has to be improving that
piece of business for the ecosystem
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and making benefits better, which
has so much room for improvement.
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Welcome back to Exploring Growth.
Today we have the opportunity to
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kind of get in the weeds a little
bit and talk to an expert on
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employee benefits, health care,
employee work life balance,
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and probably everything in between.
My guest today is Brandi Burch,
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founder and CEO of benefit Bay.
Welcome to the show, Brandy.
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Thanks, Lee.
Thanks for having me. Um, yeah.
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Okay, so I thought we could start off
by just kind of telling my story.
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Um, in in that I've never shared
this before on my podcast,
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but Um, back in the mid 2000,
I worked for a consulting firm that
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helped companies with benefits,
and I was there for about five years,
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and I was really more business
development than I was a consultant,
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but I would bring them in to, to.
And so I kind of watched over their
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shoulder of how they did things,
and I was licensed and everything I
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could, you know, do all of the stuff
because you had to be in sales. Yeah.
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But what I watched them do,
which I thought was pretty,
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pretty clever at the time.
And I'm curious to see if, you know,
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companies are still doing this is
that they would come into kind of
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a midsize company and they would
they would create sort of tranches
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with their employees. Right?
So they would take one and they'd
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try to push them into Medicare,
because Medicare can kind of
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shoulder that health care burden,
the ones that are older and
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they're usually weren't a lot.
And then they would take the younger
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ones that are typically more healthy,
and they would try to kind of carve
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out, uh, the younger population and
put them on, um, a lower cost plan.
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And then everybody for in the middle,
what they would do is they would
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put them on a major medical plan.
Um, to but but really,
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really high deductibles.
And then they would they basically
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used it as a mechanism to self-fund.
Right.
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So then everything in between
that wasn't covered would the
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company would fund.
And then it kind of became, uh,
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sort of a lower cost, um,
alternative that the company could
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pay, you know, smaller hundreds
of dollars every month for,
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to cover a portion of their,
their health care.
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And they could make that sort of
a flat fee across the board for
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all the employees.
And then anytime something would
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come up, um,
if an employee had some kind of,
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um, you know, case that would be
sort of caught in the middle,
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then the, the company could come
together and sort of rescue them.
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And so then it was looked at
favorably, uh, by the employee that
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the company was paying for their,
their medical medical situation.
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So I'm curious, uh, if you see,
have you seen companies doing that
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And are they still doing that?
Because that was a long time ago.
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Yeah.
I think, uh, companies have to get
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really creative, uh, with health
care, and they have done so.
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I think some of them have thought of
those ideas, or maybe be consulted
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into those types of programs and then
found themselves with some risk, um,
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really taking on that risk role there
to try to control budgetary costs.
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And we all know that that one laser
claimant can destroy something for
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an employer population and that
one health crisis or emergency.
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So I think that people are still
being creative.
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And I think that's one of the
things that led to it having so
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much momentum.
I think companies are still
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doing self-insurance.
And then there's more complex
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regulations that have evolved
since you were in that seat.
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I assume that would probably
blow that up. Yeah.
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Around employers really trying to
step in that gap or get creative or
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class employees and favorably or,
you know, put certain people in
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different types of dynamics that
create unfair contribution scenarios.
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Yes, I do know for the employer,
it's gotten a lot more complex
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in the regulatory environment of
self-insurance.
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And then those are seen as those
employees benefit dollars that
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have to be invested appropriately
or spent appropriately.
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So there's regulations around
that as well.
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So I do I mean it's still there.
There's there's so much creativity
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and there are even more additional
health plans entering into the
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market that sell these types of,
of access programs and major
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medical risk carve outs.
And, and so it's very complex
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out here in the benefit world.
And there's still all of the
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business development reps out
there trying to get that dollar.
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And then there's a lot of
employers who don't know really
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how to make those decisions.
And they're they're sitting on a
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budget crisis in some instances.
And they have to try to do
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anything to make it work.
Yeah, I imagine the the landscape
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for the financial part of being
who's the who's the fiduciary who
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has the financial risk there?
The the legal piece of it.
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Everything's gotten so much more
complicated.
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But so, you know, what I'd like to
do first is just kind of have you
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tell tell us a little bit about
yourself and your background.
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So it gives us context to your
ideas and then benefit by what's
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benefit about all about.
Yeah, I mean I'm Brandy Burch
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CEO and founder of benefit Bay.
But me as a person, I'm a mom,
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I'm a career woman.
I'm a I'm a working woman.
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I've had six children.
I've had my ups and downs and
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adversity in my life.
And I think that that's made me
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who I am.
I think being an operator and a
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financial leader has led me to
my benefits expertise.
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I've been a benefits purchaser
on behalf of organizations for a
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long period of time.
I've been managing that risk from
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that seat, and I've been trying
to come up with creative ways to
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maintain our recruiting edge,
or our retention of our employees
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and benefits are always a huge
piece of that, but then they're
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also a big part of your budget.
So I come at benefits from
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understanding being a purchaser,
from working with brokers on
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those risk scenarios.
I also come from it as a mom,
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as someone who's had children, I've
had children that have been healthy.
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I've had children that have had
risk complications,
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I've had healthy pregnancies,
I've had risky pregnancies. Right.
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So I've had each of those scenarios
that caused that same problem for
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that employer on the other seat.
I know what that feels like on
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the other side of that as well.
So and then I've built great
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relationships with good brokers,
and I've had brokers who I've stepped
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into an organization and they were
taking advantage of the employer.
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So I mean, I've seen all realms of
what this ecosystem looks like.
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I've worked with great carriers,
I've worked with terrible carriers.
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And and in this job, I have to work
with carriers and build relationships
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for technological innovation, for
improvements and plan offerings for,
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you know, what does the market need.
And I think all of the opportunities
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that I had in various industries,
seeing different types of employees
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working with different types of
ecosystems and diverse populations.
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I can understand what varying areas
across the US are looking for.
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I can understand the strengths in
those markets, the weaknesses and
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the socio economic challenges.
So I think that that gives me a lot
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of leverage in the sea to understand
how to make it better. Yeah.
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And, you know, just thinking
back on my time being around the
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benefits world, it it obviously has
changed so much and everything has
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become so much more complicated,
um, just due to the complexity,
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complexities all into all the
different levels.
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Um, when you're meeting with
companies, where would you say that
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most employers get it wrong when
it comes to employee benefits?
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Um, I think most employers try
to get it right.
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So I think that that's the one piece.
Sure.
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I think they end up getting it
wrong because they come in with
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their own sets of biases that are
about how they experience benefits
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or what the they themselves need
for their family, and they don't
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necessarily consider the population
and what those varying needs can be.
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They don't understand if someone
would want a more limited
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network at a lower cost,
if they're highly compensated and
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they want an HSA program, they
don't understand that, um, ability
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to get your child to the doctor
when it's $165 a visit when you're
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on a different income structure.
So I think that there's sometimes
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just a lack of knowledge of what
that feels like at each of those
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different walks of life that the
decision makers sometimes don't know.
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In addition, the decision makers are
usually working for those higher,
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uh, higher ups in the company that
are also in those same similar,
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um, biases when they're coming
towards that decision.
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In addition, they have pressure to
save money or they have pressure
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to solve the budget problem.
So I think that it depends on if
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they have a great broker partner
on the other end of that table.
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I think brokers sometimes are
also trying to maintain their
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commissions and their benefits
structure that comes with
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certain programs over others.
And so I think that it's a
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combination of of what the
employer does wrong.
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And it's usually picking the
wrong broker.
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Partner is the is the first piece.
And I do not recommend employers
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purchasing their benefits on their
own without a consultant and
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taking on that type of liability,
but I do recommend that they
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actually do some vetting of those
brokers that they do business with,
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and then that they understand
that there's no one benefits
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product that is going to be the
solution for you every year.
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And for the same thing that works
for industry up the street is not
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going to necessarily work for you.
So just because you're part of a
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network of of benefits purchasers
as an HRC or in a CFO seat,
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maybe self-insured is working really
great for this company over here
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It may not be the best idea for
you on your side of the industry,
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or your side of risk tolerance,
or your side of of team mix or
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your size as an organization.
So there's just so many complexities
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that go into that conversation.
We do not go into those conversations
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without a broker at the table.
I think that's a place where
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benefit Bay is different.
We value the broker in the
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conversation,
and we value those brokers who are
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doing right by their customers and
looking for the right fit for them.
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And benefit Bay was founded
around ikura.
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That's the individual coverage
health reimbursement arrangement
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legislation.
And we feel like defined contribution
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works in a lot of the cases.
But defined contribution doesn't
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work in some of the cases,
and it maybe is a better option
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for them to be self-insured.
It may be a better option to be
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on a group insurance program.
We want to ensure that that
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employee populations in the
right product for them.
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And so our biggest piece is a is
a modeling tool in the front end.
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That's a speed to market for
that broker to evaluate if it
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solves that case. Right.
And that's what we care about.
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And I think that that's an
unpopular opinion in my industry.
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Everyone says it fits for everyone.
It doesn't fit for everyone.
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There are markets where it's
more expensive.
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There are markets where there
are not great competitive plans,
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there's not great networks.
And so we want to make sure we
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get it in place where it does
improve that experience for the
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employer and the employee.
So it's got to be both right.
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We've got to keep our businesses in
business or there won't be jobs.
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So we need to talk about it's
actually an ecosystem and it
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can't be one sided.
And it has to be improving that piece
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of business for the ecosystem and
making benefits better, which has so
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much room for improvement. Right.
And you mentioned this role of
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benefits purchaser.
Explain a little bit more what
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who that is and where they fit
in all of this.
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Yeah, it kind of depends on the
size of the company.
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We see in smaller companies.
The benefits purchasers also
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also air.
Also operations also maybe finance.
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So it's it's a bit of a hybrid
human who's making that decision.
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And then as you get larger there
can be, you know,
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certified benefits executives that
are that are making that decision.
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And there sometimes can be a
team of of benefits executives
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making that decision,
and they may do it even by committee.
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And each year, if you're managed
by a board, you could bring your
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benefits RFP or your broker to
that conversation. So that varies.
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I would say often our decision maker
is that CFO who's who's going to say
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yes or no on a big shift like Ikura,
and HR is going to have a little
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more anxiety about that
transition from a group product
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to an individual product,
and letting their employee members
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choose the CFO is often going to say
the significant dollar savings is
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worth the bumpy ride of the change,
but HR is going to have to manage
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the bumpy ride of the change.
So it kind of depends on the
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motivators that that company.
But what we see is it's a hybrid of
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HR and finance making this decision
or business owner saying, you know,
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I have to do something or I'm not
going to still be in business. So.
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So then benefit Bay comes in as,
as a consultant or broker or both.
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We just work.
We are technology platform for
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that broker.
And so we work with those brokers.
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We do help to educate the market.
We're out here,
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you know doing podcasts.
We're out here doing education,
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Sherm events, CFO events,
all of those across the nation and
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trying to get the information out
there that their broker should
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be bringing this to the table.
This is something they should
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quote every year.
You should take a look if it was
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great for you.
Um, we talk about populations.
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It's great in populations it's not
great in and things like that.
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But at the table that consultant
is the broker.
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They are utilizing our tech.
Often we bring our team because
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there is a service team that
comes with this, right?
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We're there in compliance.
Kind of in complement of the broker.
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We have licensed team members.
We're supporting this.
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We're just as intelligent as
that broker at the table.
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But we aren't going to be the jack of
all trades that they are going to be.
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We're not bringing you the
self-insurance.
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We're not bringing you the group
quote our quotes on their process.
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We may win if that employer picks it,
and if we win, then our team
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comes in and services them from a
customer success implementation.
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Implementation helps their team
educates their team on plans.
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Most of these brokers are not experts
in the individual market and this now
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becomes an individual market plan.
They often aren't appointed in
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the individual market with those
carriers benefit by Is.
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So we work in complement with them.
We don't take over that relationship.
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We just service that relationship
on the individual expertise.
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And then our technology submits
that application and those
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payments electronically.
And then we manage the fintech side
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of the business, if you think of
a large employer could have 3000
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people, they could be on 2000
different types of plans, right?
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Their families are all different.
And so average adoption at an
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employers, around 50 or 60% are
enrolled in benefits. Okay.
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Spouse. Right.
Or they may not yet be 26 and
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they may be a mom and dad. Sure.
3000 life employer 2000 people
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will be on individual plans that
they chose through our technology.
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Those are 2000 individual
payments each month.
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Imagine an employer doesn't want
to see 2000 individual payments.
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They don't want to make them either.
So our technology does that.
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Um, the employer wants to see all
of that in kind of a group view,
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but they want to be able to see that,
you know, employee one through
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2000 are enrolled in these
pieces and it totals X. Yeah.
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And they want one transfer a
month into one bank account.
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Even though these are individual
account.
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These are registered as
individual accounts for these.
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Yeah. People that are involved.
It's it behaves much like group
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from a payroll deduction strategy,
FICA deferral savings, all of that.
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So yeah, that's really interesting.
It is very complex.
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And it seems like an amazing resource
because that's what it seems like.
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It's a technical platform that's
helping you practically do things,
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but it seems like an amazing
resource to guide everyone through.
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You know, I haven't been in this
world for for a long time.
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And I'm realizing that as I'm
hearing you speak,
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it's been things are very different.
And, you know, it's cool.
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It's cool to hear, though.
I mean, that's such an interesting
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piece of technology that that really
does lift all boats, I think. Yeah.
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And it's I mean,
I guess we classify as health tech.
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We classify as insurer tech,
we classify as fintech, we classify
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as a SaaS subscription to that broker
for their CRM sales and toolset.
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So we're we're absolutely very
complex, uh, technology that's
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solving a lot of those pain points
and individual group benefits.
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Hybrid model because these are
individual policies but an
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employer group is sponsoring
that contribution.
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So I just love the power of
choice though.
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I mean, and that's really what this
is. This is the power of choice.
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Because what is great for me, I mean,
I have a pretty small team here.
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There's 26 people that are on
benefits of the 33, and our 26 people
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are on 24 different plans. Right.
So I couldn't have made a choice
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that would have mattered for the
individuals that work here.
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You know, the ages were in,
I looked 1.1 in 4 different
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generations on our team, right?
So we have different experiences.
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We're at different life stages
and we have different needs.
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And then we're able to use those
dollars for the best for our own
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families.
But the organization can set a
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budget and has a defined
contribution so those individuals
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can spend those dollars.
How it best matters for them.
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But I can also budget as the CEO
of this company fairly easy.
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What a new hire is going to cost me.
Yeah, I love that.
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Uh, so if we if we think back to,
um, kind of where we started in
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this and that is, you know,
employers and then now benefit
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purchasers and I'm aware of what
that that role is. Yeah.
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Um, they're, they're thinking about
their plans annually and they're
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thinking about how to maximize and
all the things we've been talking
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about. Yeah. What what's the sort of.
And it may vary,
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probably from company to company,
industry to industry.
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Um, you know,
cultural fit to different cultures.
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Um, but what sort of the
inception point that these,
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that maybe leadership at large or
these purchasers need to be thinking
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about when they're going to create
or revise a benefit package?
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And what I'm what I'm trying to
get to is, you know,
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what's the best place to come from,
you know, is it, is it like, hey,
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we want I mean, I know they're
always trying to save money.
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Everyone's trying to save money.
Yeah. Um, so that's.
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They're not going to save
traditionally restrained to not go
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up 30%. Right. Yeah. Right. Yeah.
So that's that's a huge piece,
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which is probably the primary
driver for most most companies.
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But not to be altruistic.
But if they were,
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if they put that aside and said,
okay, we really want to put our our
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employees best interests at mine
and we want to hire top talent,
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and we want to keep them and do
all the things that we need to
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do from our end.
What's the place that where should
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they start with that, that thinking?
Yeah, I think they should start
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with understanding their
employees dynamic. Okay.
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Um, I think you have one dynamic
in a professional services firm
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where everyone's making six figures.
What is going to be something that
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that population may or may not be
really happy with is different
321
00:19:33,810 --> 00:19:41,880
than what we see as a as a random,
really great fit for Akira is diverse
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populations where you do have those,
um, professional services that
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are really high compensated,
you have middle market kind of
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ranges of compensation, and you
have a lot of more entry level or
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blue collar, uh, team members.
And so there is such a disparity in
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what people need in that complexity.
And if you add geographic dispersed
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teams, and so the networks that are
available in Massachusetts versus
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Florida versus California versus
Colorado, there are some areas where
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Geisinger health plans may make
sense for somebody in Pennsylvania.
330
00:20:21,490 --> 00:20:25,180
And Kaiser may make sense in
Colorado and California.
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And United health care may make
sense somewhere else in Connecticut
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or may work in Connecticut.
Yeah, and you can't get a group
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00:20:33,820 --> 00:20:37,990
product that unlocks that right now.
If you get Kaiser,
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you have no out-of-network cost
outside of Kaiser.
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If you get some larger group product,
you can't access a Kaiser network.
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So you're limiting your team
members ability in their state and
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00:20:50,170 --> 00:20:54,340
in their network of coverage to
get the best for their dollars.
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00:20:54,340 --> 00:20:59,230
And you're also driving up costs by
trying to cover a national network
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of doctors that aren't necessary.
So I think that taking that on,
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number one, I think looking and
being open minded to other products,
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you know, some in some cases direct
primary care works for populations,
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in some cases major medical works
and population. In some cases.
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00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:21,910
The self insurance is a really
strong product for them and can
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help them manage costs and have
member engagement.
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00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:28,300
But if they don't have the right
team members available and they
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don't have the race risk model,
that may not be something that's
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00:21:31,420 --> 00:21:35,350
sustainable for them either.
We're seeing a lot of self-insurance
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groups come over to Acra,
and it's traditionally because
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they've had a handful of people
that that land in, you know,
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00:21:41,870 --> 00:21:46,370
cancer diagnoses and in various high
cost drugs that are causing something
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that's unsustainable for the employer
to manage from a risk perspective.
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And so I think that just
understanding your your heartbeats
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who work for your company is,
is number one.
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00:21:56,900 --> 00:22:01,790
And I think we don't it's such a
complex decision to make each year,
355
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and I don't envy the people who
make it.
356
00:22:03,830 --> 00:22:07,910
I've made it often where it's harmed
me, it's harmed someone else.
357
00:22:08,060 --> 00:22:12,200
I think in mergers and acquisitions,
it's really where it's most
358
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heartbreaking usually.
And I personally still think
359
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about this to this day.
I worked at Limelight Health.
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We were acquired by Phineas.
I was put in charge of the M&A
361
00:22:22,130 --> 00:22:25,640
project, of merging their
Atlanta team and our California
362
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:29,510
team and our national remote
team and one benefits program,
363
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:34,400
and we traditionally offered Kaiser
at Limelight Health because there
364
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,760
was a San Francisco office, and we
weren't allowed to offer Kaiser
365
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:42,110
any longer under the new entity.
So I got a eight month pregnant
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mama that I had to move off of a
Kaiser network from a doctor she'd
367
00:22:46,070 --> 00:22:50,960
had her entire pregnancy over to
a new product that didn't allow
368
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:54,830
her to go to her pediatrician or
her OB that she had picked.
369
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She'd go to a brand new doctor
who wouldn't allow her to come
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till the insurance was effective.
That's tough.
371
00:23:00,350 --> 00:23:03,830
Even validate her for an appointment.
She ended up never even getting
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to see that doctor and
delivering at a hospital.
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00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:10,640
That was strange to her with a
stranger and finding a pediatrician.
374
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:13,460
I mean, that is stressful.
That is so stressful.
375
00:23:13,460 --> 00:23:17,390
That to their employee.
But it was the lesser of the evils.
376
00:23:17,390 --> 00:23:21,470
We had five employees that were
negatively affected by losing Kaiser,
377
00:23:21,470 --> 00:23:27,590
and we had 500 employees to solve.
And so I yeah, you can be the human
378
00:23:27,590 --> 00:23:31,520
making that decision and you can not
want to make that decision and you
379
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:35,540
can still have to make that decision.
So I think that's why I'm one of
380
00:23:35,540 --> 00:23:37,550
the reasons why I'm most
passionate about Iskra.
381
00:23:37,550 --> 00:23:41,550
And being in the market with benefit
Bay is because that would have been
382
00:23:41,550 --> 00:23:46,560
solved had they chose individual
benefits and defined contribution.
383
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,440
Everyone could have chose what
mattered to them rather than that's
384
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:53,820
that group product, right? Yeah.
That's such I'm appreciate you
385
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,840
sharing that story because it's such
a real example of how life works.
386
00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:02,070
Like we all have these type of things
happen, and maybe not to that degree
387
00:24:02,070 --> 00:24:05,640
because that's that's stressful
for me. Just having three, right?
388
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:07,950
Yeah, I've had three kids and been
through all of that three times.
389
00:24:07,950 --> 00:24:11,040
And we we had the doctor we
wanted and we had what we wanted.
390
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:14,910
But you know, I can't imagine the
stress that they went through.
391
00:24:14,910 --> 00:24:17,790
And, you know, just hearing about
those types of things we all
392
00:24:17,790 --> 00:24:21,900
have to deal with, um, stress at
whatever degree in our lives.
393
00:24:21,900 --> 00:24:25,050
And that's such a practical
example of how, um,
394
00:24:25,050 --> 00:24:28,740
benefits play out in real life,
you know, and that these stories,
395
00:24:28,740 --> 00:24:32,400
you probably have 100 more of
those stories you could tell.
396
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:35,730
You know, these stories don't
usually ever make it to to light.
397
00:24:35,730 --> 00:24:39,090
And so I think that's kind of I
appreciate that because it's kind
398
00:24:39,090 --> 00:24:42,330
of where I was driving to is,
is when when the rubber meets
399
00:24:42,330 --> 00:24:45,750
the road with benefits.
What how does that play out for
400
00:24:45,750 --> 00:24:49,170
each individual employee at this
specific company? Right.
401
00:24:49,170 --> 00:24:52,020
And so then that inception point
of how they approach it is super
402
00:24:52,020 --> 00:24:56,430
important, because if they don't
start with the right thing in mind,
403
00:24:56,460 --> 00:24:59,220
they're going to end up with
more of these cases. Right.
404
00:24:59,220 --> 00:25:03,060
And I think I think it's also why
I'm really passionate about it is
405
00:25:03,060 --> 00:25:07,590
how do we how do we get to a place
in the future where individuals
406
00:25:07,590 --> 00:25:11,820
are the consumers of health care?
Because it really is our dollars?
407
00:25:11,820 --> 00:25:14,370
We talked yeah.
If it's our employer dollars and
408
00:25:14,370 --> 00:25:18,300
it it is our employer dollars.
But at the end of the day, those are
409
00:25:18,300 --> 00:25:21,780
our benefit dollars that have been
set aside or payroll deducted for
410
00:25:21,780 --> 00:25:25,080
ourselves from ourselves. Right.
They're part of our compensation.
411
00:25:25,350 --> 00:25:29,340
And how do we get to a place
where that decision isn't isn't
412
00:25:29,340 --> 00:25:32,670
shifting all the time?
We may take a job because the
413
00:25:32,670 --> 00:25:34,740
benefits were fantastic the next
year.
414
00:25:34,740 --> 00:25:38,650
The benefits may be terrible because
they have to make a decision. Right?
415
00:25:38,650 --> 00:25:41,290
And so our life has been changed
because we made a decision based
416
00:25:41,290 --> 00:25:43,390
on great benefits that are now
no longer great.
417
00:25:43,420 --> 00:25:45,700
It's not that the employer wanted
to take those away from you.
418
00:25:45,700 --> 00:25:48,520
Likely they had a claims issue
that caused the carrier to drive
419
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:50,560
the rate up.
And so there's all of these
420
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:55,030
things that are building this
experience for us as Americans.
421
00:25:55,030 --> 00:25:59,230
And American health care is broken.
So how do we get to the place where
422
00:25:59,230 --> 00:26:02,800
we can be brand loyal to someone
who actually answers the phone,
423
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,350
pays our claims,
takes care of our doctors, doesn't
424
00:26:05,350 --> 00:26:08,890
beat them down on, you know, their
services that they're providing.
425
00:26:08,890 --> 00:26:12,310
How do we get to a place where
we can make our decisions?
426
00:26:12,310 --> 00:26:15,580
We buy everything ourselves.
It's all at the fingertips for
427
00:26:15,580 --> 00:26:17,560
us to research.
You know, we even make our own
428
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,050
retirement decisions when we
used to have a pension.
429
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:25,780
This is the lone last decision
that Americans don't have a lot of
430
00:26:25,780 --> 00:26:30,250
control over. That is our health.
It is our health.
431
00:26:30,250 --> 00:26:34,600
It is not our employer's health.
It is not our employers shouldn't be
432
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:38,680
our employer or our brokers business.
What drugs we are taking,
433
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:43,660
where we access those drugs.
What, uh, you know what surgery we
434
00:26:43,660 --> 00:26:48,640
just had, whether elective or for,
you know, yeah, for health reasons,
435
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,070
they shouldn't know we have a
cancer diagnosis unless we want
436
00:26:51,070 --> 00:26:55,210
them to know we may end up on a
rough schedule because we're now
437
00:26:55,210 --> 00:26:59,440
causing a claims issue for them.
And we they're worried about our
438
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:03,220
health, those types of informations.
You know, maybe I'm pregnant.
439
00:27:03,220 --> 00:27:06,760
I don't want my doctor to know.
I don't want my company to know.
440
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:08,920
But currently in self insurance
programs,
441
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:13,120
those drugs and all of those visits
and all of that behavior is all
442
00:27:13,120 --> 00:27:18,580
tracked and given to the employer.
So how do we get to a place
443
00:27:18,580 --> 00:27:21,730
where we get that back?
We take that back as consumers,
444
00:27:21,730 --> 00:27:26,230
we have the power in our hands.
And I do think that it takes us
445
00:27:26,230 --> 00:27:28,330
there.
And I think, um,
446
00:27:28,330 --> 00:27:32,170
that allows consumers to be loyal
to brands and brands to actually
447
00:27:32,170 --> 00:27:36,380
provide customer service because,
right now, carriers treat individuals
448
00:27:36,380 --> 00:27:39,170
a little bit, kind of like any
of our government services.
449
00:27:39,170 --> 00:27:43,220
And we have to we have to call them.
We have to have long hold times.
450
00:27:43,220 --> 00:27:46,460
We have to wait 90 days for our
doctor to be paid.
451
00:27:46,460 --> 00:27:48,680
And we continue to get
collection notices.
452
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,770
And so many of our doctors are
leaving networks because they
453
00:27:51,770 --> 00:27:54,350
want to be paid cash.
Now we're going to have a benefit
454
00:27:54,350 --> 00:27:56,780
over here that isn't worth anything,
right?
455
00:27:56,780 --> 00:27:59,780
So how do we drive that action?
And I think we drive it by choice,
456
00:27:59,780 --> 00:28:02,870
and we drive it by allowing
individuals to make that choice and
457
00:28:02,870 --> 00:28:06,440
kind of shift those alignments.
I think previously those alignments
458
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:11,480
were based on compensation to a
broker, and that carrier could
459
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:15,530
just get out there, you know,
pay lots of high compensation and
460
00:28:15,530 --> 00:28:19,580
get that group year after year
or buy or win that business,
461
00:28:19,580 --> 00:28:22,550
and now they're going to have to
buy or win my business.
462
00:28:22,550 --> 00:28:27,290
And so maybe not a commercial.
Instead, maybe actual services,
463
00:28:27,290 --> 00:28:30,800
maybe not their name on a stadium,
maybe it's going to come to the
464
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:34,250
actual services that you provide.
And paying that doctor's claim.
465
00:28:34,250 --> 00:28:37,880
So I think that that's what most
excites me, is the only time you're
466
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:40,670
going to make changes when you
start to drive the behaviors that
467
00:28:40,670 --> 00:28:44,060
are going to drive the change,
or you put in action those
468
00:28:44,060 --> 00:28:47,570
pieces that are going to matter.
Yeah, this is all super interesting.
469
00:28:47,690 --> 00:28:51,110
Um, and it's kind of opening up
a whole new window in my mind
470
00:28:51,110 --> 00:28:54,530
about all this.
I, I literally on the next episode,
471
00:28:54,710 --> 00:28:59,480
um, I have I'm bringing on a
specialist who has a tech company
472
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:03,860
that, um, basically helps provide
healthcare providers, um, fix their
473
00:29:03,860 --> 00:29:07,100
equipment so their equipment works
properly and they can see what's
474
00:29:07,100 --> 00:29:10,190
happening with their equipment.
So the patient care is is improved.
475
00:29:10,190 --> 00:29:12,440
So I'm thinking about that as
you're talking.
476
00:29:12,650 --> 00:29:16,640
And um, and I'm just thinking like,
wow, how the market would change so
477
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:20,960
dramatically and in so many great
ways, both for business and the
478
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:25,250
economy, but also for healthcare
as it's provided to the patient.
479
00:29:25,250 --> 00:29:28,010
Yeah. The provider.
I mean, I encourage people to start
480
00:29:28,010 --> 00:29:30,950
talking to their doctors who are
the carriers that care about the
481
00:29:30,950 --> 00:29:34,800
patient's care, who don't intervene
all the time to try to stop.
482
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:39,210
You know, often I hear horror stories
of people. They needed a test.
483
00:29:39,420 --> 00:29:43,500
The it was denied by you know,
the pre certification was denied
484
00:29:43,500 --> 00:29:46,920
and then later they get a diagnosis
that could have been prevented
485
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:51,510
earlier at an earlier stage.
But I think that those types of
486
00:29:51,510 --> 00:29:53,730
informations can start to put us
in the power.
487
00:29:53,730 --> 00:29:57,180
I think the the future of benefit
is unlimited and and I'm really
488
00:29:57,180 --> 00:30:00,180
excited about ingesting medical
records on behalf of that individual
489
00:30:00,180 --> 00:30:03,270
to help them make decisions, but
not giving it to anyone else. Yeah.
490
00:30:03,270 --> 00:30:07,560
You know, and and having the
individual have the information that
491
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:11,010
right now the employer and the broker
have around how do I save money.
492
00:30:11,010 --> 00:30:15,870
So how do I save my own health care
plan money if I need an x ray and
493
00:30:15,870 --> 00:30:19,080
which ones rate it the best, right.
And so I can make that decision for
494
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:23,100
myself, not my employer telling me I
have to go to XYZ company to get
495
00:30:23,100 --> 00:30:26,130
my x ray because they've they've
got a better deal with them. Right.
496
00:30:26,130 --> 00:30:29,370
So I want to publicize that
information within the
497
00:30:29,370 --> 00:30:33,630
individual's Experience.
Not for anyone else's eyes. Yeah.
498
00:30:33,630 --> 00:30:36,960
The democratization of healthcare.
Yes.
499
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:42,300
And I think it's, uh, pretty sad
that we're in a place that we are
500
00:30:42,300 --> 00:30:46,050
that we're having to fight for it.
Um, but let's let's talk about
501
00:30:46,050 --> 00:30:48,180
benefit pay a little bit more in
terms of how you're growing the
502
00:30:48,180 --> 00:30:52,080
company, because that's that's
interesting to my listeners as well.
503
00:30:52,170 --> 00:30:54,900
Um, where are you at?
How long have you guys been around?
504
00:30:55,020 --> 00:30:59,370
Um, are you looking for funding?
Where? Tell us the whole story. Yeah.
505
00:30:59,370 --> 00:31:02,190
So we've been around since April
Okay.
506
00:31:02,340 --> 00:31:06,630
Um, first year was an uphill climb.
It was new, and people didn't want to
507
00:31:06,630 --> 00:31:10,020
hear about it. We sell to brokers.
Brokers weren't willing to sell it.
508
00:31:10,020 --> 00:31:12,570
It does reduce their compensation.
Yeah.
509
00:31:12,570 --> 00:31:15,030
So they weren't they weren't
willing to hear that. Right.
510
00:31:15,030 --> 00:31:18,840
So it was a bit of a slow, slow tick.
The first year we were focused
511
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:21,390
more on those smaller size
groups year one,
512
00:31:21,390 --> 00:31:26,010
and we really had a limited traction.
We were able to sign 80 employers.
513
00:31:26,010 --> 00:31:28,440
I say that's limited traction
because when you're under those
514
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:32,530
smaller groups,
that's 1600 people after a year.
515
00:31:32,530 --> 00:31:36,490
And when you're getting paid $20 a
person, it's it doesn't really add
516
00:31:36,490 --> 00:31:39,940
up to being a sustainable company
or a sustainable tech company.
517
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:43,510
And so we really focused in year
two in growing the business
518
00:31:43,510 --> 00:31:47,050
through expanding those current
broker relationships we had made,
519
00:31:47,050 --> 00:31:50,020
but expanding it to groups
bigger than 100.
520
00:31:50,020 --> 00:31:53,980
And, you know, it's it's interesting
when you're a startup, you think,
521
00:31:53,980 --> 00:31:57,310
wow, let's go 100 to 500.
Let's see how great we do.
522
00:31:57,310 --> 00:32:01,780
100 to 500. Yeah. We learned wow.
We do 100 to 500 really? Well.
523
00:32:01,780 --> 00:32:04,090
Like I wonder if we can go over
a thousand. Yeah.
524
00:32:04,090 --> 00:32:07,720
And then our tech wasn't even
built to handle 10,000.
525
00:32:07,750 --> 00:32:10,960
We recently had to expand it.
Like from a voting perspective
526
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:15,190
at speed market, you know,
from assigning 100,000 bank
527
00:32:15,190 --> 00:32:17,800
accounts quickly. Right? Yeah.
Because there's growth in a
528
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:21,460
population and everything was
ten x of what the year size was.
529
00:32:21,460 --> 00:32:25,930
And so those types of things and
hitting those hurdles just really
530
00:32:25,930 --> 00:32:28,450
excite me now because I think,
well, how small minded were we?
531
00:32:28,450 --> 00:32:30,760
We thought we would.
We thought, wow, the biggest group
532
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,160
will ever service this 2000,
right? Yeah, yeah.
533
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,820
And and so we've been throwing
those barriers that we put up for
534
00:32:36,820 --> 00:32:40,330
ourselves just right out the window.
And yeah, I've been excited
535
00:32:40,330 --> 00:32:43,360
because some of our early brokers,
that's been where a lot of our
536
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:47,620
growth has been, some of those early
relationships that we built in 21
537
00:32:47,620 --> 00:32:51,490
and said, take this ride with us,
help us develop this tech, help us,
538
00:32:51,490 --> 00:32:55,930
you know, product input like product,
market fit, impact. Sure.
539
00:32:55,930 --> 00:32:59,230
Some of those early
relationships have just been the
540
00:32:59,230 --> 00:33:02,470
expansion revenue they've seen.
They started out with just
541
00:33:02,470 --> 00:33:04,720
trying to win business with
extra from other people,
542
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:09,220
not willing to bring it to the table.
And they quickly it's 25% of
543
00:33:09,220 --> 00:33:11,290
their business.
Then they were acquired and had
544
00:33:11,290 --> 00:33:14,320
a success story.
You know, in more than one instance,
545
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:17,140
they've been acquired by all
their growth and their expertise.
546
00:33:17,140 --> 00:33:19,240
And yeah, and then now we've
been able to navigate these
547
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:23,950
larger national agencies that
acquired these smaller agencies.
548
00:33:23,950 --> 00:33:29,330
And so that expansion and growth,
even if I would have sat down and put
549
00:33:29,330 --> 00:33:33,980
it on paper, I wouldn't have believed
it would happen. No. And. And what?
550
00:33:33,980 --> 00:33:38,570
It took us three years to get to.
We were able to to do in two
551
00:33:38,570 --> 00:33:43,700
months this summer. Right.
So the growth now is, um,
552
00:33:43,820 --> 00:33:47,390
what we used to think the
national open enrollment was wow,
553
00:33:47,390 --> 00:33:51,020
it's so hectic. It's so busy.
There's so much coming our way and
554
00:33:51,020 --> 00:33:55,760
all the volume because we would three
and four x each year when reinforcing
555
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:59,840
in months in the summer, when when
really it's not considered the
556
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:03,500
right time to sell benefits. Right.
And so I think that our growth
557
00:34:03,500 --> 00:34:07,190
has been a lot of organic.
We've been limited funded.
558
00:34:07,190 --> 00:34:09,470
I mean, you can do any of the
research on our company,
559
00:34:09,470 --> 00:34:13,190
and we we are funded to about a
quarter of anyone else.
560
00:34:13,190 --> 00:34:15,650
And yeah,
we're not raising right now.
561
00:34:15,650 --> 00:34:19,760
We closed a seed a seed
extension round for us.
562
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:23,450
And that is our path to
profitability as an organization.
563
00:34:23,450 --> 00:34:28,070
So no, we're not currently raising.
But what we are seeing is that we are
564
00:34:28,070 --> 00:34:33,230
seeing a lot of broker movement that
used to take us a lot of work to
565
00:34:33,230 --> 00:34:36,800
get into that conversation, and the
number of meetings that just come our
566
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:41,510
way every single day are so exciting.
And then we're seeing maybe we
567
00:34:41,510 --> 00:34:44,960
traditionally sold to three
states of an agency.
568
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:50,960
We're now seeing that agency say we
need a national approach to this
569
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:54,470
bigger needs to be at every quote.
I had been fighting for that for
570
00:34:54,470 --> 00:34:58,790
three years that you should
evaluate at every conversation
571
00:34:58,790 --> 00:35:01,640
it is or isn't a fit.
It should be on the proposal
572
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:04,730
because maybe they have another
reason why they need it.
573
00:35:04,730 --> 00:35:07,580
Maybe they have the the network
challenges.
574
00:35:07,580 --> 00:35:09,380
Maybe they have access to care
challenges.
575
00:35:09,380 --> 00:35:14,060
Maybe it's a flat budget decision,
but they still may want to do it
576
00:35:14,060 --> 00:35:17,390
because it solves 22 problems
they've been having and complained
577
00:35:17,390 --> 00:35:20,690
about all the time. Right. Yeah.
And so I've been fighting for
578
00:35:20,720 --> 00:35:22,910
that for three years and we're
finally seeing it happen.
579
00:35:22,910 --> 00:35:26,510
So I think that's where we're seeing
the most growth and where we see the
580
00:35:26,510 --> 00:35:30,690
potential for the most opportunity.
At one agency we had 14 brokers
581
00:35:30,690 --> 00:35:32,970
selling.
We have over 700 that are going
582
00:35:32,970 --> 00:35:35,760
to be selling for January in
that same agency.
583
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:40,320
So what I can see is that I have
no doubt will to next this year.
584
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:47,070
Um, we're already for sold in January
for axing and I, I just I don't know,
585
00:35:47,070 --> 00:35:50,730
it's exciting because we nearly
died a few times and I just want
586
00:35:50,730 --> 00:35:54,240
to tell any of your listeners,
you know, don't give up. Like, right.
587
00:35:54,240 --> 00:35:58,020
Building a startup is hard,
and some of those peaks and valleys
588
00:35:58,020 --> 00:36:01,950
can get to you. Yeah, sure.
Just keep pushing and trudging.
589
00:36:01,950 --> 00:36:05,580
It takes a long time to educate
in a new space, a really long
590
00:36:05,580 --> 00:36:09,900
time to and did get buy in.
People thought it might be, uh,
591
00:36:10,050 --> 00:36:11,910
they thought it might be
political partisan.
592
00:36:11,910 --> 00:36:13,890
It passed during the Trump
administration.
593
00:36:13,890 --> 00:36:17,310
It was it was reinvested in
during Biden's administration,
594
00:36:17,310 --> 00:36:21,030
various states of both sides
have invested in Akira.
595
00:36:21,030 --> 00:36:23,820
So people wanted to know it was here.
People wanted to know it was
596
00:36:23,820 --> 00:36:26,550
here to stay, and it wasn't
going to flop either. Sure.
597
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,160
It does sound like, you know,
at first glance,
598
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:32,970
it's a sort of a bipartisan thing.
It's not going to be on one side
599
00:36:32,970 --> 00:36:34,950
or the other.
And it sounds like you're you're
600
00:36:34,950 --> 00:36:38,700
really your attractions coming from
brokers and agencies. Are you guys?
601
00:36:38,820 --> 00:36:43,140
Um, can consumers come directly
to you and use your platform yet,
602
00:36:43,140 --> 00:36:45,180
or is that something that in the
future. Yeah.
603
00:36:45,180 --> 00:36:47,970
No, consumers can't come directly
to us to use our platform.
604
00:36:47,970 --> 00:36:51,090
Now, that is a vision of the future,
because we do believe individual
605
00:36:51,090 --> 00:36:55,470
benefits should be available for
any workers, professional workers,
606
00:36:55,470 --> 00:36:58,800
anyone who's out there hustling and
needs to have a marketplace to shop
607
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:02,820
for their insurance IT legislation
is is around that employer
608
00:37:02,820 --> 00:37:05,910
setting a defined contribution
in meeting ACA guidelines.
609
00:37:05,910 --> 00:37:09,450
So right now we are servicing
just the broker and the employer.
610
00:37:09,450 --> 00:37:12,990
And when employers come direct to
us we do refer them to a broker.
611
00:37:12,990 --> 00:37:15,090
We are not trying to compete
with our brokers.
612
00:37:15,090 --> 00:37:19,050
And we may we remain tried and
true to that that's good. Yeah.
613
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:25,000
So then how does benefit Bay make
money. Yeah that's a good question.
614
00:37:25,030 --> 00:37:30,250
So we make money by a enrolled
active employee membership model.
615
00:37:30,250 --> 00:37:33,760
So first on the front end that
software subscription there's a
616
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:36,910
SaaS platform fee to the broker.
So we make money from that.
617
00:37:37,090 --> 00:37:38,710
And then they become our sales
channel.
618
00:37:38,710 --> 00:37:41,800
So that's our go to market channel.
We don't have to pay a large
619
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,620
marketing and sales team.
The brokers are out selling and
620
00:37:44,620 --> 00:37:47,980
using our tech.
It is the solution for that
621
00:37:47,980 --> 00:37:50,770
employer client.
That employer then signs an agreement
622
00:37:50,770 --> 00:37:53,920
with benefit Bay for our banking
services and all of the above.
623
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,910
And they're going to pay that
employer is going to pay $20 per
624
00:37:57,910 --> 00:38:01,630
employee per month for our services.
And our services include enrolling
625
00:38:01,630 --> 00:38:04,450
that employee in their benefits,
supporting their education,
626
00:38:04,450 --> 00:38:06,940
helping them with any of their
qualifying life events,
627
00:38:06,940 --> 00:38:10,210
and then setting up all of their
fintech and in their banking,
628
00:38:10,210 --> 00:38:13,360
and then exposing it to them.
So that helps the employer
629
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:15,490
budget as well.
Because if an employer if an
630
00:38:15,490 --> 00:38:18,070
employee waives coverage,
they're not paying for a service,
631
00:38:18,220 --> 00:38:22,420
you know, ongoing monthly that that
we're really not taking any actions.
632
00:38:22,420 --> 00:38:24,940
We do gather those waivers and
complaints in the front end.
633
00:38:24,940 --> 00:38:28,120
And then if benefit Bay is the
agent of record on those policies,
634
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:31,120
which we are in the majority of
cases, because, as I mentioned,
635
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:35,170
brokers are not licensed on the
individual side and internal model.
636
00:38:35,170 --> 00:38:38,980
Then there could be an eligible
commission on that product, but they
637
00:38:38,980 --> 00:38:42,700
are very low on the individual side.
So several of the carriers don't
638
00:38:42,700 --> 00:38:46,690
have any commission.
So that's that's a barrier to entry
639
00:38:46,690 --> 00:38:49,570
there for a lot of brokers wanting
to sell these policies. Yeah.
640
00:38:49,570 --> 00:38:52,480
But if there is a commission then
benefit Bay enrolled that policy.
641
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:55,360
We are commission eligible.
So those are traditionally $18 a
642
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:58,960
member. So yeah.
And rather than having a a
643
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:03,670
motivation that's around certain
drugs and certain decisions and
644
00:39:03,670 --> 00:39:07,990
you know care models which happens
in self-insurance where you get
645
00:39:07,990 --> 00:39:11,710
a piece of all of those pies
just to set fixed dollar amount.
646
00:39:11,710 --> 00:39:15,520
And in spirit of transparency, we
disclose that throughout the process.
647
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:17,830
So if benefit Bay is going to get
paid or their broker is going to
648
00:39:17,830 --> 00:39:20,680
get paid, they're going to know
that if benefit is getting $20,
649
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:22,750
they're going to get billed every
month for that $20 for that
650
00:39:22,750 --> 00:39:26,090
active member, but the employee
is not paying for anything to
651
00:39:26,090 --> 00:39:29,390
benefit they the employer.
The broker is. Yeah, that's great.
652
00:39:29,390 --> 00:39:33,350
I like it very transparent.
Um, so what's the path forward?
653
00:39:33,350 --> 00:39:36,890
Are you building to sell or are
you building to get acquired?
654
00:39:36,890 --> 00:39:39,890
Uh, what are you building to
hold or what's the plan?
655
00:39:39,890 --> 00:39:43,910
Yeah, I mean, we're building to
improve health care, so.
656
00:39:43,910 --> 00:39:48,380
Yeah, I'm not in a, like, let's just
build something in two years and get
657
00:39:48,380 --> 00:39:51,290
acquired. That's not my mindset.
That's not how we build.
658
00:39:51,290 --> 00:39:53,840
That's why we build to to
profitability.
659
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:57,500
I think if you build just to continue
to raise capital, that's a whole
660
00:39:57,500 --> 00:40:01,910
nother model to maybe the public.
But for us, I don't really see
661
00:40:01,910 --> 00:40:05,180
that a carrier owning and a great
provider is the right thing.
662
00:40:05,180 --> 00:40:09,800
They'll just drive decisions to
that specific carrier plan or
663
00:40:09,950 --> 00:40:14,180
make it to where it doesn't have
an objective decision as well.
664
00:40:14,180 --> 00:40:17,870
If we're bought by an agency,
it would just be for that one agency.
665
00:40:17,870 --> 00:40:19,790
And I really like the free
market play.
666
00:40:20,510 --> 00:40:25,520
Um Obviously, we'll see where it
goes, but we're not on the market to
667
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:28,640
be sold at this time, and that's
not something I put in my horizon.
668
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:32,570
I really want to grow this thing to
where it actually makes the social
669
00:40:32,570 --> 00:40:36,950
impact on benefits and changes the,
the ecosystem.
670
00:40:36,950 --> 00:40:40,040
And so you have to you have to stay
in for a little bit longer game
671
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:43,460
for that to work. Yeah, I love it.
It's an amazing vision. Yeah.
672
00:40:44,150 --> 00:40:47,330
Well this has been a great
conversation and it's enlightened
673
00:40:47,330 --> 00:40:50,600
being a lot in this world because I
haven't been in in a while and um,
674
00:40:50,780 --> 00:40:54,710
wow, things have changed a lot.
So I appreciate that. I have a.
675
00:40:54,710 --> 00:40:56,990
Daughter who's a doctor and a
daughter who's a nurse, and I see
676
00:40:56,990 --> 00:40:59,690
the wrong side of healthcare,
and I hope. Oh, I bet you do.
677
00:40:59,690 --> 00:41:05,330
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you see it from
all sides. Wow. It's not pretty.
678
00:41:05,330 --> 00:41:08,540
It's it's not pretty. Yeah.
And it can get better and has a
679
00:41:08,540 --> 00:41:10,520
lot of room for improvement.
I think there are a lot of people
680
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:13,370
involved who want to make it better.
So I think we can. Yes. Agree.
681
00:41:13,370 --> 00:41:16,400
It's not going to turn the ship over.
Uh, it's a cruise ship.
682
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:20,810
It's not going to turn in a day.
That's true. Yeah, but it can turn.
683
00:41:20,850 --> 00:41:22,350
But hopefully it turns before we
hit it.
684
00:41:22,380 --> 00:41:25,350
Hit an iceberg or something,
right? Yeah. Right. Yeah.
685
00:41:25,350 --> 00:41:29,610
So if I want to send people your way,
where where do I send them? Yeah.
686
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:33,330
Benefit becomes your best resource.
We have great website out there I
687
00:41:33,330 --> 00:41:37,080
think LinkedIn if you want to connect
with me directly I'm out on LinkedIn.
688
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:42,330
Brandenburg SEO benefit Bay I have
Twitter and Instagram personally.
689
00:41:42,330 --> 00:41:44,640
Six girls one three.
I have six girls.
690
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:48,510
Uh, so that's my handles there.
If they want to come follow me there.
691
00:41:48,510 --> 00:41:51,570
And outside of that, you know,
just reach out.
692
00:41:51,570 --> 00:41:54,690
If you're an employer who wants
some resources, introductions to
693
00:41:54,690 --> 00:41:57,570
great brokers, reach out.
If you're a broker and you have
694
00:41:57,570 --> 00:42:00,030
a technology provider that's not
doing a great job or making this
695
00:42:00,030 --> 00:42:03,000
administratively heavy for you,
please reach out.
696
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:05,760
And then if you're an individual
who wants to provide some,
697
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:09,810
you know, input or case studies
or need some information to help
698
00:42:09,810 --> 00:42:13,020
negotiate with your employer to
bring individual choices, yes,
699
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:17,490
we welcome you reaching out as well.
That's great. Awesome.
700
00:42:17,610 --> 00:42:20,580
Thanks, Brandi. Thank you.
Lee Thanks for having me.