The Best Approach to Business Development & Customer Success with Amanda Brand
Welcome to the Exploring Growth Podcast, where we delve into the world of business development. In this episode, Lee Murray, Business Growth Strategist at Harvard Murray Consulting, talks with Amanda Brand, Vice President at MINDSCAPE.
They discuss Amanda's methods for converting prospects into clients and the significance of customer success. Amanda also shares her path to becoming Vice President, and how her previous experience in healthcare and education helped her in her current position.
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Go here: https://www.harvardmurray.com/exploring-growth-podcast
Connect on LinkedIn:
Lee - https://www.linkedin.com/in/leehmurray
Amanda - https://www.linkedin.com/in/amanda-darby-brand-mba-678a9618
00:00:00:04 - 00:00:23:08
Speaker 1
Welcome back to the Exploding Growth Podcast. Today I had the luxury of talking with Amanda Brand, Vice President at Mind Scape, which is a digital marketing agency. And we talked about all things business development. We broke down her whole approach about how she approaches new prospects and turning them into clients. And then that customer success part of it, which is a lot of times people can especially agencies can drop the ball on.
00:00:23:08 - 00:00:35:11
Speaker 1
So be really interesting to see if you listen to this loss learn we're back exploring growth have Amanda Brand here excited to talk with you. Thanks for being a part of the podcast.
00:00:35:16 - 00:00:38:19
Speaker 2
Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me.
00:00:38:19 - 00:01:02:03
Speaker 1
Yeah. So I'm going to have Amanda kind of do a quick introduction to herself. But first, how do we get introduced? Well, we had Dan Tyer from HubSpot on the podcast many episodes ago. He's a rocket ship, you know, of a of a guest to have on, which is so much fun. And so I reached out to a couple of my previous guest and said, hey, you know, I want to have more people like yourself.
00:01:02:03 - 00:01:30:12
Speaker 1
Who else should I have on? And he recommended a few people, and Amanda was one of them. So I'm excited to have her on. I understand you're part of an agency, so I love having, you know, people from agencies on because they have good perspective. You know, I will say that, you know, our target audience here are B2B CEOs, CMO's, VP marketing, you know, people who are you know, in the thick of building companies for real.
00:01:30:12 - 00:01:49:17
Speaker 1
You know, they're not part of these, like, crazy valuations that don't mean anything. And they're not like just starting out. They're they're like kind of trying to build teams and put systems in place and really do strategy. So, you know, I love having people like yourself on that work for agencies because there's so much value you can add to that audience.
00:01:49:17 - 00:01:53:18
Speaker 1
So tell us a little bit about yourself, your role and the company you work for.
00:01:54:07 - 00:02:22:14
Speaker 2
Yeah. So I'm Amanda Branum, the vice president at Mindshare. And actually my husband started my escape with his business partner, business partner, Paul Farrier almost 20 years ago now. My background was in health care and I got my degree in education. And then when I went back to school, I got my MBA. And as I was going and applying to the workforce for a job, they had recruited me to come and work for their company.
00:02:22:19 - 00:02:45:16
Speaker 2
So they originally had an agreement that neither of their significant others could work for the company. So we were together for 18 of those 22 years and never really was on my radar. That might be something that I would want to explore. But having learned so much about the company and learned so much about business, it was a perfect fit for where they were.
00:02:45:17 - 00:03:08:09
Speaker 2
So it's funny that you mentioned like these have been in business for a while, kind of company is looking at growing like what are our next steps? And they were really in a place where they needed to better understand the business, what parts of the business were making them money and what parts weren't changes in the industry really how to dissect and understand a kind of statement.
00:03:08:17 - 00:03:30:09
Speaker 2
And those are all skill sets that I brought to the table along with I was a professor for seven and a half years, so I had the public speaking under my belt. I have some curriculum writing, I do a ton of work in the community. So I was a natural fit to come in and I started doing education and training and that's actually where I had met Dan.
00:03:30:10 - 00:03:57:12
Speaker 2
We did a big onsite get together in Grand Rapids and we rented out space at a big brewery in town and we had the uncommon speak for us. And for us that was like a big to do. Tons of people came and I was in charge of hosting this event and I had met Dan in that process as he came in, spoke about inbound marketing and, you know, changing your sales approach.
00:03:57:12 - 00:04:29:20
Speaker 2
And and I was just so fired up listening to him speak. And it started to occur to me that sales really isn't what I was imagining sales to be, is I never wanted to be a salesperson, but just through understanding business and understanding how marketing and sales really work together and that it was very consultative and very much about understanding where people were in their business and how what you had could help them grow.
00:04:30:10 - 00:04:53:17
Speaker 2
So Dan and I connected there and then we we have just stayed connected since and that was over six years ago. Now that we can that's great. Yeah. And then I ended up going out to Boston and doing sales training with Dan and his team. I really got to know a lot more people at HubSpot and kind of that ecosystem, a bunch of other agencies.
00:04:53:17 - 00:05:22:01
Speaker 1
And yeah, from what I from what I gather, you know, HubSpot was built off of this amazing sales model. I mean, they obviously did content and inbound like fabulously but and really kind of, you know, created that whole category. But but, but the sales part, I think, doesn't get as much attention as it should because they they really are a powerhouse sales organization.
00:05:22:01 - 00:05:45:07
Speaker 2
Yeah. And they do fantastic training and it's sales training obviously that you can implement in any sector of business for anything. But yeah, they did a phenomenal job, but that's how I met them and how I ended up where I am now. So now at my inscape I was promoted to Vice President around the time of the pandemic and which was interesting.
00:05:45:07 - 00:06:12:10
Speaker 2
So helping Colt lead the company through that and then also was put in charge of business development and I run all of the business development for my inscape as well as I oversee all the financial side of the business. My counterpart, I was the president of the company does all process and procedure for our internal team and make sure that everything that we're doing is, you know, on time and on track and efficient and that we're staying within budget.
00:06:12:10 - 00:06:35:10
Speaker 1
That sounds like a great structure. I mean, if you're handling the financial part of it and working on the production of that revenue, you know, that's that's a that's a great seat to sit on. You you are accountable to yourself. You know, basically every day you're you're like, are we making more money? And is that money good money?
00:06:35:10 - 00:06:35:20
Speaker 1
You know.
00:06:35:20 - 00:06:46:19
Speaker 2
Exactly. I think it's that second part of is that money going to money that really is what keeps businesses afloat for the longer period of time.
00:06:47:13 - 00:07:15:15
Speaker 1
Agreed. Yeah, it's getting in the highest quality new clients that are going to stick. I was just having this conversation with a colleague of mine the other day about referrals and that being, you know, referrals are still one of the most important, if not the most important way that all B2B and even a lot of BDC get their new business.
00:07:16:16 - 00:07:51:12
Speaker 1
And you know, it should be a priority in people's companies in their, in their stack of or in their marketing strategy and their business development strategy. And I just see that it gets deprioritized, you know, it's sort of like if you if you ask any company, how did you get your last five clients or customers, they'd probably say referral, but they're not doing any like specific referral type of business where you're working with referral partners or affiliates or going to your clients on a consistent basis and asking them for, you know, referrals if you're doing good work.
00:07:52:14 - 00:07:53:18
Speaker 1
I don't know why that just came to mind.
00:07:53:18 - 00:08:16:06
Speaker 2
You know, I'm like, I feel like we're a little bit guilty of that. We do ask for referrals, but you're 100% correct. Like our referrals are our best clients. If somebody referred you because they already know and love you and you have been awarded that trust, right? So then even through the sales cycle, it's so much easier because that trust barriers are already being crossed.
00:08:16:06 - 00:08:30:07
Speaker 2
Now they're looking at do you have the things that I need to solve my problem instead of Do I like you? Are you going to be easy to work with? You know, all the other things that they have to figure out before? Also, can you solve the problem that they have?
00:08:30:23 - 00:08:47:04
Speaker 1
Yeah, it makes me think, you know, if I want to make immediate impact with most of the clients that I come in to work with, I just go in and say, okay, before we do anything, let's just call up all your current clients and ask them how it's going and then ask them for referrals and you get immediate business out of it.
00:08:47:04 - 00:09:04:16
Speaker 1
And you learn so much from those conversations that the impact is great and it's immediate, you know, within the first 30 days or so. And then they love me because it's like, well, we, you know, it's like, well, you could have been doing this all along. You didn't really need me. But now we have the insights and we have the referrals.
00:09:04:16 - 00:09:24:09
Speaker 1
Now let's start to build off of this and get some momentum going here. But let's not forget about it, you know, I mean, we're all guilty of it. It's the latest, greatest marketing tactic. You know, where can we spend money and waste money? You know, it's like we're we're good at wasting money on marketing, but we forget about the tried and true word of mouth.
00:09:24:09 - 00:10:03:09
Speaker 1
You know, someone telling a friend. But yeah, so. Well, that's great. I mean, such a great pedigree. I've been through the, the HubSpot sales process myself and I think 2000, 15, 16, 17, somewhere in there I became a partner at the time. We were doing some more of that work in our in my agency that I have separate from this and I can attest to the, you know, the case study of like walking through that being sold by them at that time and still is relatively, you know, I don't know not new but relatively young of a company selling.
00:10:03:09 - 00:10:26:08
Speaker 1
And they were doing all the right thing so you know, it's like made me want to buy it because they were pushing just hard enough but not too hard. They were very consultative, you know, all the things. And so I was very impressed by going through that sales process with them. I felt like I was in good hands when I got handed off from, I guess, the SDR to their account executive.
00:10:26:20 - 00:10:35:01
Speaker 2
Yeah, they do a phenomenal job. I think listening and not all salespeople are great at that.
00:10:35:01 - 00:11:00:16
Speaker 1
Yes, that is for sure. Yeah. I mean, for for businesses listening right now, that's one thing you could take and say, you know, ask your salespeople how much of the time do you listen and these appointments like are you actually just listening a lot of time and trying to gain understanding or insights that you can then use as leverage to not in a negative way but in a positive way to add more value.
00:11:01:16 - 00:11:10:06
Speaker 1
I find that salespeople are focused on their number, and they they tend to they tend to do a lot of talking and not a lot of listening.
00:11:10:11 - 00:11:31:03
Speaker 2
When I first started sales, I would take the first call, you know, so I was like a man that's going to run all the connect calls, you know, those first ones I would have like my spreadsheet and my questions and my lists and it just, it seemed very robotic. It didn't work for me. And so I ran, you know, several of those.
00:11:31:03 - 00:12:02:22
Speaker 2
And I was like, this doesn't feel like I'm building a relationship. It doesn't feel like I'm listening enough. It feels like I am just dominating the conversation and inputting. Here's what we do and how we solve that, and here's what we have to offer to that instead of really letting the prospect drive the conversation, which is what I do now, I don't show up with a single question and I don't.
00:12:02:22 - 00:12:26:18
Speaker 2
I go and I look at their website. I have a good, you know, background knowledge so that I can speak to challenges, you know, and I can say, Oh yeah, I saw that here. Or, Yeah, you know, it's funny that you mention that because I thought the same thing in your user experience. You know, anything that I can do on my homework side, but I use the silence.
00:12:27:15 - 00:12:59:14
Speaker 2
I don't let it scare me anymore because when it's quiet in the in-between moments is when they're thinking and when they're thinking, they're also realizing that she's not pushing me. I'm taking a minute to breathe. What am I actually asking for? And if no one else is doing that in the process of when they're vetting who they want to work with, I think that makes us stand out because they feel heard when they get off the call for sure.
00:13:00:00 - 00:13:23:03
Speaker 1
I also let's let's if you wouldn't mind, I'm curious to know your approach, right? So like if you could kind of break that down a little bit more for us. You know, I think that would be a super value for people that are listening to hear about how a business development person, you know, that's selling something that, you know, is not necessarily a commodity, but it's it's there's a lot of competitors in the marketplace.
00:13:23:03 - 00:13:32:20
Speaker 1
So there's a lot of your clients are going to get calls from these competitors. They have, you know, positive, negative lot of negative experience working with agencies. I mean, we've all had these experiences, right?
00:13:32:20 - 00:13:36:20
Speaker 2
So I think everyone needs to have the story, right. Yeah.
00:13:37:06 - 00:13:51:09
Speaker 1
I mean, because there's so many bad actors out there. So, you know, with that is the context. I think it would be great to hear your approach because I think we're in alignment in terms of how we approach. You know, it's very, very consultative. But, you know, break that down for us if you don't mind.
00:13:51:16 - 00:14:17:08
Speaker 2
Yeah. So I love to understand the business and part of that is why I wanted to go to school, right? To understand business more. So typically I'll get like a request to meet with them. They end up for me and it'll say, I want to. We need a new website that's like the biggest thing, right? Like we're doing marketing and it's just not working.
00:14:17:08 - 00:14:46:11
Speaker 2
Like something's wrong with everyone's life. So I'm like, okay, you know? So I go do my homework and, and I'm like, Tell me more about that. So and they'll start telling me about, you know, I don't like how it looks. I don't like this form or I don't like I think we need to have a better about us page and so I'll talk to them about okay, but what are you hoping is the goal that your website is going to achieve?
00:14:46:11 - 00:15:08:23
Speaker 2
Like what if if we're thinking about your website as a tool, what is this job? And so kind of reframing how they're looking at it. And then they'll usually say, well, it's to bring leads in so that we can close deals and have more revenue. Now, like, okay, that's perfect. Like that's a good use of her website. But talk to me about that.
00:15:09:07 - 00:15:27:16
Speaker 2
How many leads do you need on your website? How many are you getting? You know, what is your business goals? What does that growth look like? What are you currently doing and what other things do you have in place to support this goal? Because if you build a website, like if you build it, they will come is not a real thing.
00:15:27:21 - 00:15:48:12
Speaker 2
So that's what we're going to invest, you know, thousands of dollars into a website. We need to have some realistic expectations about what is a website do and what are you actually looking for. So a lot of the times when people think they need a new website, really what they need is maybe a better landing page or whatever their offer is.
00:15:48:12 - 00:16:08:04
Speaker 2
So they're can tell their story better. Maybe what they need is an actual marketing campaign to drive visitors to the website that already exists. Because sometimes I'm like, I hate to tell you, but I don't think the website is necessarily the problem or we don't know yet because you don't have enough data to support that. The one site's the issue.
00:16:08:05 - 00:16:29:13
Speaker 2
You're not getting enough visitors. So having a much bigger conversation about what are you doing to bring in leads, how are you moving them through the sales funnel? So yes, the website is a big part of that. What does that experience look like? But what are you doing with email? You know, what are you doing on social? What are you doing?
00:16:30:02 - 00:16:53:18
Speaker 2
You know, networking. What are your sales people doing? You know, what does it look like from, you know, looking down holistically at your business? Because this is a big investment. Typically, you, you know, this is all of your budget for the year. And so what is the best way to spend that to support your business goal, not to support this initiative that you originally came to me with?
00:16:54:17 - 00:17:11:16
Speaker 2
And as I ask the questions, I just listen. I, I'm like, tell me about that. And then they'll follow me. If I'm talking to marketing, they'll tell me, Oh, you know, we get leads in them. The sales people is not closed down. The sales people will say, I just and they're not giving me any leads, so I don't know what else to do.
00:17:11:16 - 00:17:39:23
Speaker 2
And so really having a having a tool kit on our side to help anywhere along that user path where we can plug in and say, here is some low hanging fruit. Like immediately you need to plug this hole in this hole and things will start to flow. And once we have a baseline, then maybe we talk about blowing up the website and yeah, having that, you know, tool functioning better for you.
00:17:39:23 - 00:17:59:21
Speaker 2
But there's 99% of the time, much lower hanging fruit, much more going out with the business than this thing that they want to replace that they think is going to all of a sudden increase their revenue by ten, 20% over the next year. But those are the conversations for me.
00:18:00:13 - 00:18:22:09
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, me too. You know, and not talking about building websites, but I mean, it's a similar concept in that I feel like there's a little bit of like counseling effect that has to happen where you have to you have to ask them good questions. You have to be open to listening and you have to let them have a space where they can kind of talk out what they want to do.
00:18:22:17 - 00:18:43:14
Speaker 1
And good questions help them get to the answers that they really have in their brain somewhere, but they just haven't had time to sit and think about it. And, you know, if they're going to love somebody who says, Oh, no, you don't need to spend 50 grand on a new website, what you need to do is correct this form and give it three weeks and see if that that fixes part of your problem.
00:18:43:14 - 00:18:47:06
Speaker 1
And then we can build off of that and that didn't cost you anything, right?
00:18:47:12 - 00:18:53:06
Speaker 2
Absolutely. And then come back and talk to me, because eventually sometimes we're going to need it for a bit.
00:18:54:02 - 00:19:11:11
Speaker 1
Right. I mean, eventually they're going to need more work. Right. But and they may need it may need it right away. But this sort of like, you know, consultative, but it's like your your your sort of problem solving for them.
00:19:11:11 - 00:19:16:09
Speaker 2
I like that. You like counseling. I think I want to call it like sales and marketing therapy instead of.
00:19:16:15 - 00:19:17:02
Speaker 1
Therapy.
00:19:17:02 - 00:19:22:09
Speaker 2
And set up your initial consultation with them. And that's just going to be like sales and marketing therapy.
00:19:23:06 - 00:19:46:22
Speaker 1
It can usually go down that road. You can easily spend hours with someone and they would give it to you, you know? I mean, there's definitely a line in the sand you have to draw. But I think what you're also doing in that time that I found is if you're if you're uncovering the real need, you're you're able to demonstrate that, you know what they could potentially need because you've done it before.
00:19:46:22 - 00:19:50:07
Speaker 1
You've uncut, you've turned this rock over before, you know, either you or your team.
00:19:50:11 - 00:19:50:21
Speaker 2
Right.
00:19:51:00 - 00:20:12:11
Speaker 1
And I love that because I'm all about not only for myself, but, you know, advising my clients to demonstrate expertize. Right. That's what people really want to see. They can look at your LinkedIn, they can look at your website, they can watch your video. All the social proof is their credibility is built. If they get referred by somebody even better, the trust is probably mostly there because now they're they just have the need.
00:20:12:11 - 00:20:30:20
Speaker 1
They want to talk about. But if you can demonstrate your expertize by like in your case saying, okay, well, you talked about something, you know, rebuilding this section of the website, but it seems like this page might just be broken. So if we fix this, you know, what we did for another client is we just fix the page and it works.
00:20:30:20 - 00:20:57:00
Speaker 1
So, you know, let me tell you about what we did there. And you insert that sort of mini case study, you're demonstrating that, hey, I've already walked this path before. I'm spending I'm a critical time with you right now, helping you uncover the need. You know, all all of the things are there for them to say, yes, we need to continue down the road with you and you're building value for them in their company and you're building value for you in your your business.
00:20:57:02 - 00:20:57:13
Speaker 1
I love it.
00:20:58:05 - 00:20:58:20
Speaker 2
It's fun.
00:20:59:21 - 00:21:22:06
Speaker 1
Really. Is it? It's fun. And I think, you know, one thing you said before that I think is really important is getting comfortable with that silence. You know, there's a lot of like deep psychology in that because, you know, why are people not comfortable with silence? Well, because it's like we're working here. We need to be productive. I need to make money.
00:21:22:06 - 00:21:24:19
Speaker 1
I need to, like, move this along. What's the next step? Right.
00:21:24:19 - 00:21:44:16
Speaker 2
And I think people worry that they don't seem smart enough. They don't have the answer right away. And I'm more of a thinker. And so I think maybe comes in that more natural to me. But I'll take a minute and think through something before I say it. Mm hmm. Then I feel like when I do that, it's much more meaningful.
00:21:44:16 - 00:22:03:07
Speaker 2
It's much more thought through. Yes, I've become accustomed because I work with a lot of people who are quick on their feet and would get nervous when I wouldn't answer right away to just say, you know, just let me think it through a second, you know, so that they know that I'm not avoiding the question. It's not that I don't have an answer.
00:22:03:07 - 00:22:07:08
Speaker 2
I just want to make sure that I'm being thoughtful, thorough, you know, when I give my answer.
00:22:09:02 - 00:22:31:19
Speaker 1
Yeah, I agree completely. I think for some personalities is little easier than others. You know, I've kind of been all over the map, I think my career. But I, you know, working on sales teams and working on marketing teams, you, you see that there are certain people who have much more trouble holding their tongue and like not saying everything that comes to mind and some people who don't say enough.
00:22:32:21 - 00:22:53:13
Speaker 1
So I think there is a little bit of a skill that has to be exercised or worked on for certain people. Both. Both sides of the coin. But but I think that that skill is super important for all levels and for all disciplines. I mean, we're sitting in a performance review and you're not the client facing with your manager.
00:22:53:16 - 00:23:08:06
Speaker 1
Probably a good time to know how to use that skill of do I say what came to mind? And, you know, tell this person what I really think or should I just wait and maybe, you know, be a little bit more choice with my words? I think it's an incredible skill. It's not just for sales and.
00:23:08:06 - 00:23:28:15
Speaker 2
Not accepting a yes or no as an answer. I think sometimes we're trying to get through our checklist so quickly, you know, like, okay, I need to know this. I need to know what's the timeline, what's the budget, what's their needs like, what's their goal, but not having to like race through, you know, all those things and have them say yes or no, but then say, tell me about that.
00:23:29:20 - 00:24:03:07
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah. When you said it earlier, it it pinged in my mind because my wife and I, over the last couple of years, we've had this like running joke where she picks up these little phrases that I use in business and she'll try to use them against me. And one of them is, is tell me more. Right. And because I don't know, we got into a conversation one day and I was like, Yeah, if you just not like you're trying to do it in a negative way again, if you're just really trying to get something out of someone and get to the real like heart of it, to find the value to move things in
00:24:03:07 - 00:24:20:03
Speaker 1
a progressive way, you just ask them to say, Well, tell me more about that. And that gets people to say, Oh, well, maybe I didn't communicate it clearly, or maybe there's more to be said, and then they'll say more. They may say it in a different way, and there's more clarity there and.
00:24:20:03 - 00:24:31:20
Speaker 2
Learn more about the interpersonal dynamics of other companies by asking them to you know, tell me more about that. What's really going on like that seems like. And then.
00:24:31:20 - 00:24:32:07
Speaker 1
Be quiet.
00:24:32:07 - 00:24:33:11
Speaker 2
Yeah. And then listen.
00:24:34:12 - 00:25:01:20
Speaker 1
That's right. Yeah. I love it. Well, so, you know, what it makes me think about is we're talking about business development and this sort of consultative sales approach in through you know, we don't have to get into the details of the funnel, but like assuming that this prospect has come into the funnel and we work with them to understand their needs and really put together a scope of work that's going to help, you know, satisfy those needs.
00:25:02:11 - 00:25:28:20
Speaker 1
Let's talk a little bit about like customer success, like taking it from I know you probably do with this a lot where you're dealing with a new prospect, you're turning them into a client and you have to hand them off to your team to fulfill. What does that look like with your agency and how do you approach, you know, that successful handoff so that whoever whomever you're handing it off to is actually going to fulfill all of the things that you've promised?
00:25:29:05 - 00:25:57:13
Speaker 2
Yeah. So that's actually interesting that you ask that because it has been refined and refined over several years. So I take very thorough notes and put them in my CRM so that they're there and I tag our project manager or whomever I know will be working on the account so that they're there and they can read them or not before hand, but everything's in there for them to see.
00:25:58:14 - 00:26:40:16
Speaker 2
And after we have a completed statement of work, then I meet with the project manager and we just walk through what exactly is that I sold because we sell similar things, right? But there's nuances to everybody and we really talk through not just the project, but then the people side of it too, because they're going to be in charge of managing their relationship, making sure that we're hitting milestones, making sure that our team understands what's important to this client, because what's important to your client may not be important to client B, and so when that way, when they're having conversations after the handoff, they they're already aware, like we know that this was really important
00:26:40:16 - 00:26:55:22
Speaker 2
to you. And so we're going to spend a little more time here or let's talk about that more at the client kick off. So I have a one on one with the project manager to kind of do that high level handoff and we start to schedule out all the work and then we have a second meeting with our team.
00:26:55:22 - 00:27:30:22
Speaker 2
So then it's me, the project manager, and then any of the team was working on the project. And that's really the time to say, what haven't I asked yet? What am I missing? What do you need to do your job well? Are there any roadblocks? Here's the schedule for when we see this work being completed. How can we make sure that we're prepared to do this work well for the client and then we go through, you know, our designers, our developers, our people who are working on our HubSpot automations, our copywriters.
00:27:30:22 - 00:28:03:05
Speaker 2
And everybody gets to say, you know, hey, man, to be really nice if they gave us this in advance or, you know, they sent over this thing, can we get another one of those or who should our technical connection be for this part and taking all of that information? And then as we're getting ready to do our client kickoff meeting, we send over our questions in advance and then in our slide deck where we have that first it'll be the my team and me handing off and meeting with the client.
00:28:03:05 - 00:28:30:02
Speaker 2
And then I cover the first part of reiterating, here's what we saw, here's what that looks like. You know, meet my team, here's what we do. But then we have a slide of unknowns or things that we're still waiting on. And all of that comes from having really good communication with my team and them also trusting and being comfortable that tell me like, Hey, you didn't ask this question or it's great that, you know, they have, you know, three kids and they're going on vacation next week.
00:28:30:02 - 00:29:02:20
Speaker 2
But we need access to this file. Amanda, like, oh, shoot. Well, let me get that for you. But having a process in place that asks the questions upfront in originally when I came into this role and started, I had never worked in sales before, I had never worked in marketing before, and so everything was brand new. And so through doing it, I kept asking questions and that's really where I learned what needs to be in the process to ask the right questions.
00:29:02:20 - 00:29:06:17
Speaker 2
And then even when you think you've asked all the right questions, there's still probably something missing.
00:29:07:13 - 00:29:28:13
Speaker 1
Yes, I love that you are so thorough. And I would say, you know, from my experience, it seems more thorough than most agencies. I think a lot of agencies are so quickly moving on to the next sale that there is throwing the projects to people and people in the back room are like yet again, I have no idea what we're doing.
00:29:29:08 - 00:29:50:08
Speaker 2
But that does inefficiencies. So when we at the team and we say, okay, we quoted this word, why are we over budget or why are we, you know, why are the profit margins not there? How are other agencies doing this work and able to make money and have high level voice? This is not an industry with minimum wage employees.
00:29:50:08 - 00:30:09:05
Speaker 2
We have very skilled, talented staff and we need to make sure that we keep them, which means that we need to make sure that we get the work through and we don't go over budget, you know, that we do valuable work for our clients, but that we're also very mindful that our hours need to be spent on the work and that needs to get done in.
00:30:09:05 - 00:30:15:06
Speaker 2
How can I do my part to make sure that they have what they need so that they can stay on time?
00:30:15:23 - 00:30:32:12
Speaker 1
It's critical. And to ask your question I know is a rhetorical question, but this those agencies aren't making any money. And I tell you that right now, they may have a lot of clients come through the door, but ask those clients what that experience is like. It's not good, you know, which is back to the beginning of what we're talking about.
00:30:32:12 - 00:30:39:03
Speaker 1
There's a lot of bad, bad actors and bad, you know, bad use cases out there.
00:30:39:14 - 00:31:00:12
Speaker 2
In our bread and butter, clients are those who have already been on HubSpot for a while and they're just okay. They've grown and they know now they need help right there. They're like, we like the software. We just need to do more with it. We're expanding into this area or launching this product or. And so we always get those horror stories.
00:31:01:17 - 00:31:10:18
Speaker 1
Yeah. So, so are you talking about these are these are customers who started on it themselves internally and now they need help externally or they've had help externally.
00:31:10:18 - 00:31:30:06
Speaker 2
Either way, either they've got someone internally who got it up and running and it's kind of doing its thing, but they know that it could be doing so much more and they just don't have the capacity or somebody who is. They're working with another agency and they're just not getting what they need through or they're there's a disconnect there.
00:31:30:06 - 00:31:48:07
Speaker 2
And so then that's typically where we like to take them under our wing and bring them through the mindset process because we try to we really value customer experience and that's what we try to make sure that we do a really good job. I know everyone says customer experience, right? I hate to even say it, but.
00:31:48:15 - 00:31:49:03
Speaker 1
There's a.
00:31:49:12 - 00:32:16:08
Speaker 2
Big difference in the industry between getting work in and pushing it through and actually building a relationship with your clients and understanding their business needs and taking pride in internally when your clients succeed. So every Wednesday we have our monthly stand up meeting and we do client see client wins and team wins. And so everyone on our team talks about who are we working with and what like cool thing is going on.
00:32:16:10 - 00:32:34:17
Speaker 2
Like, what do we do for that group? Because that gets everyone excited to actually come to work every day. Nobody wants to just punch the clock in and out every day. But if we can talk about like, hey, you know, we did this landing page that we were testing and here's what we saw. Like it made a huge difference or we did this email campaign.
00:32:34:19 - 00:32:51:10
Speaker 2
So a lot of our clients don't utilize email like they should. They want more leads. We want us to run them through the website and then we look at their database and we're like, What are you doing with all the contacts you already have? Like, you realize that's your most valuable asset to your point of referrals and people already know and love you.
00:32:51:18 - 00:32:58:01
Speaker 2
So we run email campaigns and we're like, Holy cow, look what's going on. Our clients are excited and it was an easy left.
00:32:58:19 - 00:33:22:19
Speaker 1
Yes, exactly. Yeah, you're right about all of that. And, you know, I think that, you know, the point you made earlier about getting to know the person, the prospect, you know, you may have multiple buyers that are buying at the same time, but getting to know them and their needs. But like on a human level and then translating that to your team is huge.
00:33:22:19 - 00:33:48:20
Speaker 1
I mean. Well, first of all, I mean, honestly, in reality, the fact that you're having a team meeting and like trying to trying to actually, you know, indicate one to them is huge. But the fact that you're bringing all these other contacts to the picture and then they're taking the baton and saying, okay, we're going to we're going to run with this on a customer success side and try to deliver as accurately and even maybe beyond what it is that you proposed.
00:33:48:20 - 00:34:23:14
Speaker 1
Then you're going to end up with a happy client. And it's not only just happy now, but they're going to want to be with you and do more things with you for a long time so that cost of acquisition, you know, goes down and down, down. So, you know, I think there's so much to learn from now. The other thing I was going to say, too, is like, I think there's something to having a lot of efficiencies in your business and trying to build a machine of sorts for both marketing and sales, because operationally you need to have that be strong and sound.
00:34:24:02 - 00:34:52:17
Speaker 1
But even if you built it into a sort of a mechanized way, those stand up monthly meetings are very important because it allows everyone to get out of that mindset, a machine mindset and, you know, really look at things objectively and say, are we actually doing something here because we can do this stuff? Like especially when it comes to CRM, automation, email marketing, all these things become rote.
00:34:53:03 - 00:35:11:20
Speaker 1
They just become this is what we do every week and I owe it to this person. If I don't get it there by this time, it's, you know, that's becomes our life. And if you don't pull yourself out of that every once in a while and say, ah, we making progress internally as a team, as a company with our clients, and here's what those winds are.
00:35:13:00 - 00:35:31:15
Speaker 1
It's really easy for people to get burnt out as a team, and it's easy to get your clients to say, hey, you know, we've been doing this for like six months and like there's some progress, but like, are we going to or aren't are there any other new ideas? Like, we just keep pounding the same nail, you know?
00:35:31:15 - 00:35:48:10
Speaker 1
So I love that you guys do that and you make it a point to to pull those out and be intentional about that because it can be super hard because everybody, you know, we're always behind to some extent or always a lot going on can be hard to pull out and say, let's just have this conversation about more feel good things.
00:35:49:12 - 00:36:11:18
Speaker 2
It's nice to for sales conversations also because then I have top of mind things all the time that are going going on. And so when people are talking about, you know, whatever tactic they're looking for and I can say, oh, you know, that's that's funny that you should mention that, you know, just last week, Wednesday, we were talking about this client and they had that same issue.
00:36:11:18 - 00:36:17:02
Speaker 2
And we've been working with them now for three months. And here's what we do undercover.
00:36:17:02 - 00:36:45:23
Speaker 1
Yeah, I love it. I mean, it's another thing that you're doing that, you know, sometimes you it's like you go to an event and you need to be off your phone because do not present at the event. Oh, can you not hear me? Can you hear me now? Can you hear me now? Can you hear me now? I can hear you, I think.
00:36:46:17 - 00:36:50:05
Speaker 1
Oh, it must have been the AirPods. Are your AirPods disconnected now?
00:36:50:11 - 00:36:51:00
Speaker 2
Can you hear me?
00:36:52:12 - 00:36:52:21
Speaker 1
I can hear.
00:36:52:21 - 00:36:55:04
Speaker 2
You. Oh, good. Sorry about that. I don't know why. My audio.
00:36:55:18 - 00:37:12:02
Speaker 1
I like. No, it's okay. But now I hear me on the other end. It's like an echo. You know? You have you on your computer speakers. How about now?
00:37:12:05 - 00:37:12:21
Speaker 2
I can hear you now.
00:37:14:16 - 00:37:15:00
Speaker 1
Okay.
00:37:15:02 - 00:37:17:03
Speaker 2
That was bizarre. Sorry.
00:37:17:03 - 00:37:27:19
Speaker 1
Yeah, it's Bluetooth. It's the wonders of technology. It. It loves to set us up for great success, then pull it right out from under us.
00:37:27:20 - 00:37:35:20
Speaker 2
I think it's a good. You didn't see with though that you rely on the best laid plans. What I heard, you know, never don't always work out.
00:37:37:05 - 00:38:01:23
Speaker 1
That's right. Well, I had a point there. Now I sort of left me, but it doesn't matter. This has been a great conversation, by the way. I knew was going to be anybody that Dan recommends. I'm all excited to talk about, talk with, and talk about what they're doing. You know, if if everybody wants to follow it, I'm going to put some links on them and the description.
00:38:01:23 - 00:38:05:19
Speaker 1
But if people want to follow you or find you, what's the best place for them to do that?
00:38:06:03 - 00:38:25:08
Speaker 2
So the company is on obviously all of the social media is it's we are my escape dot com is the website and then the company name is my escape and then of course you can follow me. I'm in a brand and I am also well, probably more on LinkedIn professionally. We can tell you that.
00:38:25:08 - 00:38:45:14
Speaker 1
Cool. All right. Hey, thanks again for this. It's been great. And I'd love to continue talking with you at another time. You know about this topic of business development, customer success. Seems like you guys have a lot of it figured out. And, you know, extending that value to other listeners far and wide is is what this is all about.
00:38:45:14 - 00:38:45:22
Speaker 1
So.
00:38:46:09 - 00:38:48:08
Speaker 2
Yeah, you're welcome. Thank you again for having me.