Pricing Strategy with Dominique Fraser
Are you looking to increase the prices of what you're selling and retain clients for longer? Then this episode of the Exploring Growth Podcast will be of particular interest to you.
Host, Lee Murray, Business Growth Strategist of Harvard Murray Consulting speaks with Pricing Strategist, Dominique Frazier about how B2B businesses can increase pricing and profit margins. They also discuss the importance of value, education, and ramping up your marketing funnel during the sales process.
If you are enjoying what you hear, please consider sharing it with a colleague or a friend.
Have a guest recommendation, question, or just want to connect? Go here: https://www.harvardmurray.com/exploring-growth-podcast
Connect on LinkedIn:
Lee - https://www.linkedin.com/in/leehmurray
Dominique - https://www.linkedin.com/in/dominiquefraser
00:00:00:01 - 00:00:25:22
Speaker 1
Welcome back to the Exploring Earth Podcast. Today I had the opportunity to speak with Dominic Frazier, a pricing strategist. Super interesting conversation. I'd say that anybody who wants to get higher prices for what they're selling and clients that stay on for longer, this is the episode for you. All right. Welcome back and have Dominic Frazier here today. Welcome, Dominic.
00:00:27:13 - 00:00:52:21
Speaker 1
Yeah. So, you know, as it goes, I spent a lot of time on LinkedIn and I've met a lot of unique people on LinkedIn. I do all kinds of different things and I love growing my local and global network. And so our paths crossed and I thought, this will be a great opportunity for us to get together and kind of talk about some of the things that you're doing as it might relate to the audiences listening.
00:00:53:12 - 00:00:57:03
Speaker 1
So if you would mind, just give a quick introduction to yourself.
00:00:57:19 - 00:01:26:06
Speaker 2
Yeah, sure. So my name is Dominic Fraser and I love to say it in French. So Dominic Fraser and and actually I'm a pricing and offer strategist or consultant. Why decided to choose site specific title because there are so many, you know, business growth specialists out there. And I really wanted to focus more on pricing and helping actually B2B clients.
00:01:26:06 - 00:01:36:23
Speaker 2
So people who are actually serving B2B to increase their pricing but also increase their profit margins. Yeah.
00:01:36:23 - 00:02:03:12
Speaker 1
Mm hmm. Now, I love it. And, you know, I in my travels of of working with clients of all kinds. One of the things that I end up finding myself talking about a lot, actually, is, is the sales process. And sometimes it's specific. We're talking about the sales process and sometimes we're talking about in light of what marketing is doing to drive qualified opportunities into that process.
00:02:04:04 - 00:02:27:02
Speaker 1
And when we talk about it, you know, a lot of it has to come back to the value that they're offering in that pipeline. You know, in their process of selling, demonstrating their expertize. You know, so we talk a lot about value and how to to you that value up for the client so that you can lead them through.
00:02:27:15 - 00:02:47:03
Speaker 1
You know, that's one differentiator I see for a lot of companies is not just being a vendor, you know, even if you are a vendor, but being more of a a lead to the client too, to lead them through the process, educate them, continually educate. And when we're finding in the marketing funnel, it's all about you know, educating high value content, all of that.
00:02:47:13 - 00:03:10:09
Speaker 1
So when it gets to sales, it should be ramped up even I think in context to the buyer you're talking to. So, you know, talking to you today, I think it's it's it's great to have this conversation about pricing and value. So yeah. So tell me a little bit about some of the client, the type of clients you work for and type of work that you do.
00:03:11:12 - 00:03:35:05
Speaker 2
Yeah. You know, I started as myself, I started to sell my own little knowledge online since 2010. And at that time I was a graphic designer and I was teaching for the retouching actually online. And then after a few years, a lot of people came to me to ask me, how did you manage to sell your all knowledge all over the world and sell high ticket offers and this is where I started.
00:03:35:05 - 00:04:05:04
Speaker 2
It's more like in 2016 that I started to coach people how to create for their own business, create certifications online masterminds. And then I realized that the same problem was happening for every one of my clients. They had an offer, but it was not quite right. You know, I just realized that sometimes when people are very close to their business, they think they know what the worth the most in their business.
00:04:05:09 - 00:04:26:20
Speaker 2
So they will tell me, Dominic, I just want more leads for that specific offer. And then I look at them and they are genius and what they're selling, it's not their genius because usually when someone have a genius, something that comes to them like very easily, they're just the best at it. They don't see it because they don't value it.
00:04:26:20 - 00:04:55:12
Speaker 2
It's so easy, you know, like nobody will pay me for what I'm doing so easily. So I realized that with the time I was actually helping my clients re rethink their offer first and also rethink their ideal clients because they were actually not targeting the good people. And also before us we were creating this offer with their genius.
00:04:56:05 - 00:05:27:23
Speaker 2
Then we could hire their pricing like very high and they were actually the first really surprised, you know, about like maybe before they were charging 100 per hour and now they could charge 15 K 25 K for a few days with the same clients. It was just actually the way they would position themselves and also the way they would sell that specific offer of theirs.
00:05:27:23 - 00:05:34:07
Speaker 2
I can give you some ideas. Yes. So if you are for sure.
00:05:34:07 - 00:05:35:11
Speaker 1
Yeah, that'd be great. I'd love it.
00:05:36:08 - 00:06:06:01
Speaker 2
Okay. I had this clients, you know, that came to me. She's mentioned is on your. Okay, so she's a service provider. So usually I will always work with the coaches, service providers, I will work with consultant to experts. Okay. And this specific person, she was super good at what she was doing. She was doing motion design so people would come to her to create animation maybe for their website to explain their their own offer.
00:06:06:15 - 00:06:33:14
Speaker 2
And then what I realize is, yes, she was a graphic designer, converted into a motion designer expert, but actually she was just accepting every, you know, contract that could that would come her way, you know, like she would pass, like a lot of time creating animated Christmas cards or having like videos on, you know, on her clients website.
00:06:33:14 - 00:07:06:18
Speaker 2
But actually, once the the clients, you know, paid the the video and put it on their website, that's what it you know, nobody was doing anything to bring, you know, leads on the website. So we realized actually that what was very good at it was to, you know, yes. To build those animation, but also to show to her clients how to bring leads to them, their website and how she could actually create more than one video throughout their client's journey.
00:07:07:19 - 00:07:36:02
Speaker 2
So instead now because before we met, she was charging 3000 40,000 for, you know, per project, per clients. And and then we created actually like different level of offers with different, you know, kind of a kind of videos and also an amount of different amount of videos. And then she end up with three packages like 50,000, 25,050 thousand.
00:07:37:08 - 00:08:09:14
Speaker 2
And when she started herself two weeks later, she was already selling her first 25 key offer. But we change also her positioning instead of being a full, you know, motion design specialist, she became actually a sell, you know, an expert in creating tools for sales team through video. You know, we changed the way she was actually selling her expertize.
00:08:09:14 - 00:08:29:11
Speaker 1
Yeah. So it sounds like a lot of what you're doing is reframing it for the client so they can understand. They can they can look at it from a different, different perspective, a different mindset about how they view value. And, you know, I'm making some notes here as you're talking. There's so many things that are kind of popping, you know, as you're talking.
00:08:30:05 - 00:09:00:19
Speaker 1
You know, I think one thing that speaks to me in if I'm talking to, you know, like a mid-level company, it's it's what you're talking about with this individual client plays because, you know, there's different markets that you can sell your service or your or your product in. And each of those markets have different value. So for your client, you know, she could go on Fiverr and put an offer out, you know, package out for $100 or $1,000 as a max, you know, package.
00:09:00:19 - 00:09:23:19
Speaker 1
And and someone could get a lot of value from that. But she's not getting the max value for the skill that she has, the the values that she can ultimately bring. But it's mainly just do 2 to 1, a mindset, but also a market. So, you know, take being able to find a market that's intrinsically sees a higher value, you know, so you have to find that market.
00:09:24:03 - 00:09:49:10
Speaker 1
And then when you're in it, it's about leading them through that, that, that new perspective. So you're changing the perspective and saying, okay, they're coming to you asking for motion design animation. Well, what other things? There's this touch, you know, there's there's other things that inform or add value that you need to help bring them along into so they can see that.
00:09:50:08 - 00:10:09:23
Speaker 1
Well, first of all, demonstrating. I think that you're an expert in what you do because you see the bigger picture of what's happening and then being able to involve them in it. So there's there's so many things that I think that you're that you're saying that are of value. And I think the kind of bow on the package is mindset.
00:10:11:10 - 00:10:48:13
Speaker 2
And what is interesting also is that I'm not just working on the packaging of the offer and how to sell it. And yeah, I'm doing that. But half of my job actually, it's more a two years to see their own value. Like for an example, we talked about Karen in here, that was her name and before she was just actually when she was offering a video at 3000, 4000, she was calculating the time her team and her would take to produce this video, you know, oh, it's, I don't know, 100 150 per hour so here the total.
00:10:48:20 - 00:11:17:05
Speaker 2
But what I, I actually have her realize is. Yeah but you're not just creating a video anymore because actually she decided to refuse those Christmas cards and those on the relevant video that she was asked to do. And I told her, just focus on the ones that you're the best. And also don't forget that when you're working one hour, actually, you're working more than an hour because usually you will work before that specific hour with the client.
00:11:17:12 - 00:11:43:19
Speaker 2
You will think about the project, prepare yourself so you will start working and then you will meet to the clients and then you will start thinking about, you know, their video or their product or their what you will build for them. And then you will, you know, sometimes wake up during the night having some ideas and then during your shower in the morning you will have other ideas and you will keep you know, you will start focusing on that client.
00:11:43:19 - 00:12:09:02
Speaker 2
And actually, you will be at a point where you kind of just thinking about this client 24 hours a day to produce the best video ever. They they need to convert leads like crazy, you see. So that's the difference. And also what I told her, you know, maybe you can sometimes instead of just asking for an hour fee, you can add some bonuses to this.
00:12:09:07 - 00:12:35:04
Speaker 2
So if we're taking this specific example, I told her, do you know how the videos or, you know, converting on and do you know how many people are seeing those video? But she told me no. Once the clients in the video, I don't see anything. So I told her, why not include in your package a bonus that you will be posting the video on your own Vimeo.
00:12:35:19 - 00:12:59:12
Speaker 2
So you will see you know, you will be able also to see after three, six months what's going on with that specific video on your client's, you know, website, and you will see that it's not performing enough. So let's so this gives her the opportunity to go back to the client and says, you know what, let's, you know, change it in a bit of stuff, maybe the introduction to see how it goes from now.
00:12:59:12 - 00:13:23:09
Speaker 2
Yeah. And you can also implement in your package a little video, a prerecorded video that how to attract leads to your website and you're giving this to your clients. So those things are all little things that you just need to, to produce ones that can increase, you know, the value of your offer actually.
00:13:23:09 - 00:13:52:17
Speaker 1
It sounds like, you know, what you're describing as someone who is more of a problem solver for the client, you know, versus just a service delivery person. You know, you're taking them from being a person that has a skill set in some way. But, you know, it's like a mechanic. I can fix your car. But let me ask you a few questions first to make sure if I ever need to do this thing for you and if I do, maybe it needs to be done in a different way.
00:13:53:04 - 00:14:00:20
Speaker 1
So it sounds like it's a problem solving type of mentality versus just delivering on a scope of work.
00:14:01:22 - 00:14:32:17
Speaker 2
It just the way you are, you know, providing your offer. Just think about a chiropractor, okay? Versus a person, like doing massage, you know, a massage therapist. Actually, you're doing the same job. Okay. Not exactly the same. You want one? Maybe went to school, like a little bit longer and but actually is one hour with a client and doing something, you know, like treating declines for one hour.
00:14:32:17 - 00:15:10:06
Speaker 2
So it's the same kind of service. Okay. But the difference why chiropractors aren't rich and selling their business when they're retired and why, you know, massage therapists, they're poor in day. They decide to like let go of that business. It's done. They're just losing. They're just closing their door because it's actually the same thing. Yeah. You know, the difference is, the chiropractor and I went to see to see one like last week, I had like a ache in my back and I went there because it was an emergency, you know?
00:15:11:00 - 00:15:32:03
Speaker 2
But it was super good. He told me, you know what, let's make some, you know, radio to see what's going on in your entire, you know, body. And I actually I ended up leaving the place with a three month treatment where I will meet the person twice a week. And you know what? This is what I needed, actually.
00:15:32:21 - 00:15:57:04
Speaker 2
So that's the difference. A chiropractor will analyze the situation, audit the body, you know, and you will see exactly where the pain is coming from. So he will not just treat the symptom. It will treat, you know, the problem itself. And then you will create a plan of action on several weeks, several months to treat you. And and what's going on after the three months?
00:15:57:04 - 00:16:29:04
Speaker 2
Oh, we will reevaluate your situation instead of a massage therapist. Most of them, they're not all like that, but most of them they will just wait. The phone will ring. They will have an appointment with the client and it will be okay. Bye. See you next time. That's it, you know? So sometimes it's just the way you are making sure to, first of all, not just, you know, serve the clients like they want because clients think they know what they need, but actually they don't know what they really need.
00:16:30:00 - 00:16:54:12
Speaker 2
So this is why actually you have to ask them exactly the good questions to know exactly what they are looking for. What is the exact exact result they want, and then create a plan of action for them to succeed, you know, with your help and actually, like when I'm working with my clients, I always aim for them. How can you have this clients for life?
00:16:55:00 - 00:17:13:17
Speaker 2
You know, how can you help them today? But keep helping them, you know, over and over and over again, keep them and grow your client out like that. People always need more than they think they need. You know, for an example, if someone's like, oh, you know what? I don't I just want to read six figure or seven figures.
00:17:14:03 - 00:17:36:21
Speaker 2
Okay, here, how we can do that. Or maybe they can. They can maybe need to. I don't know how to create a podcast. Great. But once you have a podcast, okay, now how do you sell that podcast? How do you transfer people from listening to the podcast to becoming clients, you know, and how can you transform those clients into clients for life relationship?
00:17:38:12 - 00:17:58:17
Speaker 1
Yes, yes. And the tie I see there is going back to the problem solver mentality. Is your your seeking to understand the greater problem that they're coming to you with, with the idea that if you are in the right market, you are looking up for the ideal client, they're going to have a wider set of problems, which means you can offer a wider set of value.
00:17:59:01 - 00:18:18:11
Speaker 1
And it may not be right out of the gate because you might have to get your feet going with them and working with them. But a lot of times it can be, I've seen. And so, you know, that kind of circles back to to the value that they have with you then for as long as that value can be attached.
00:18:18:20 - 00:18:40:17
Speaker 1
So, you know, when you take the time to understand your buyer and the needs that they typically have that are associated with the thing that you're doing, then you're going to end up with more value that you can offer them, which, you know, we are all looking for service providers of any kind from your lawn maintenance all the way up to your physician.
00:18:41:03 - 00:19:04:17
Speaker 1
You know, everybody in between that want that want to be problem solvers for us, you know, and to to proactively try to help us. So, you know, if it's if it's pitched price first, then yeah, we're going to probably be turned off. But if it's pitched value first, that then shows they show they understand our needs and it demonstrates that they've done this, you know, multiple times before and they're good at what they do.
00:19:05:06 - 00:19:25:04
Speaker 1
We're going to want to attach ourselves to them, not let alone pay a higher price. So I love that. And the other thing that you mentioned that you kind of I don't know, you kind of alluded to I don't know if you mentioned it directly, was this idea of options, which is just totally the way I advise my clients, because it shows to that, you know.
00:19:25:04 - 00:19:48:11
Speaker 1
Well, number one, it's a great mechanism to get someone involved so they don't feel the pressure to choose one thing. But so from a buying, you know, strategy, it's good. But it also allows you to have a more final understanding and discussion around that final proposal, around what it is that they actually need. Because you may not have gotten it exactly right, but they may say, well, I like option B, but we need some things from option C.
00:19:48:18 - 00:20:12:14
Speaker 1
Now they're going to really start to tell you everything, which you can then craft a custom, a custom offer at that point and you becoming more and more valuable. So I love this idea of options, too. I mean, that's the way I operate, too. Whenever I engage a new client, I don't ever want to presuppose that they need me at all, let alone, you know, want to take the first thing that I tell them to do.
00:20:12:14 - 00:20:34:15
Speaker 1
So, you know, I always want to make sure they understand that I am seeking to understand the for the full thing. So but no, I was just saying like, you know, all of these concepts that we're talking about aligning value to your you know, these are my words kind of parroting back what you're saying, but aligning value to your to to your client brought your buyer to a particular market.
00:20:35:18 - 00:21:06:02
Speaker 1
You know, the positioning, the pricing, all of these things are valuable to anyone who's selling anything, really, you know, I mean, even even you look at sneakers, you know, there's there's an ecosystem of which you buy a sneaker. It's a brand ecosystem. It's not just the product. So, you know, you're not you're not looking at it and saying this is worth the $13.50 it took to make it, plus the plastic.
00:21:06:15 - 00:21:24:07
Speaker 1
You know, you're you're looking at it. There's there's more value to it in your life of what it will look like on your on your feet, what it will do in your your, you know, workout routine, like all these things. So, I mean, it's not just B2B, it applies across the board. Yeah. And these are these are great.
00:21:24:14 - 00:21:25:11
Speaker 1
Very helpful, very.
00:21:25:11 - 00:22:00:19
Speaker 2
Insightful, actually. You know, I went up with five pillars that are very important for value actually. It's their the resultant results. One thing, the transformation, the knowledge you acquire the experience itself. You know, for example, if you you have the time of your life and this is an experience, as we will remind yourself for the rest of your life, is worth something, you know, and also the human factor when we talked about, you know, will this bring some confidence in you will maybe change your status?
00:22:01:16 - 00:22:34:17
Speaker 2
How do you feel about it? You know, and so those kind of five factors and sometimes you don't have those five factors with one offer, but more you have the five and actually higher the price can be. So it's very interesting actually, because, you know, a few years back, I was I was looking for a formula. I was thinking, can I can we just create like a spreadsheet where I will add some information to it about my offering the boom, it will calculate the price.
00:22:35:05 - 00:23:00:12
Speaker 2
But I actually I realized that, yeah, it cannot exist because there is too many like a serial factor that will actually, you know, affect the pricing. But often it's how much people are willing to pay to acquire what you're selling. That's the good questions to ask yourself.
00:23:02:06 - 00:23:30:17
Speaker 1
Yes. Yeah. I think once a company takes if they were to take those five pillars as a framework of thinking and they go into their market intentionally to learn more about the all of these things, about the buyer, how they fit in the market, what their what they're offering kind of get a baseline of value. They could start to build their own formula inside their company, I think not maybe not necessarily a spreadsheet that spits out a, you know, a calculation, but probably pretty close to it.
00:23:31:17 - 00:23:54:17
Speaker 1
If they were to really make it a priority. So so I think, yeah, for you, you know, working across a span of many industries and disciplines, it's there's no formula, but there's definitely frameworks that apply. But I think companies could take this and individuals could take these these concepts and, you know, really start to hone in and do the do the nitty gritty work of connecting the dots.
00:23:55:02 - 00:24:18:23
Speaker 1
You know, I would I'm just think about like as a buyer, if if you are a buyer and you think about what you're purchasing in the same way but but opposite because you're the buyer, you can get so much more value. Like you're going out into the market to buy something versus sell something. You can get so much more value out of something that is priced too low.
00:24:18:23 - 00:24:40:04
Speaker 1
But you know the values there. You know, I'm planning a trip with my family overseas and I'm looking at different things that we can do in the city. And I'm I'm looking at, you know, tours and you can, you know, make pastries and you can do different things. And I'm thinking, okay, I'm looking at the value that they've ascribed to it.
00:24:40:04 - 00:24:58:20
Speaker 1
But I know for me and my family and my daughters and however this is going to hit us for the value it's going to give us and the what we can add to it, it could be so worth so much more. And I think it's a steal because they haven't priced it properly. So, you know, it works on both sides.
00:24:58:20 - 00:25:09:06
Speaker 1
If you understand how this concept works and you apply it to your life, you know, you really can you really can make the most out of the purchases that you make personally, too.
00:25:09:07 - 00:25:29:01
Speaker 2
Yeah. It's it's like in the car industry, you know, there is a car for every needs, you know, every people, you know, you can just need something that for. It's for the family. You can have a rental or you can have a used car and it's just enough. This is what we need right now. But maybe later in your life.
00:25:29:01 - 00:25:48:23
Speaker 2
Oh, you know what? My BMW, it's kind of, you know, talking to me, and I want to invest in myself. And eventually some people like Ferrari and big cars like that, you know, personally, I don't I will never be a buyer even if I'm making like if I'm billionaire one day, I will never have that kind of car.
00:25:49:02 - 02:50:41:05
Speaker 2
Why? It's not in my you know, it's not my style, but that's it. You know, you have to you know, you have to choose exactly what is the level of your offer. Who do you want to attract with? Who do you want to have fun with? Actually, I don't know. Obviously, you're you know, I never experience that. You know, like usually my interest is good right now.
02:50:41:05 - 02:52:29:13
Speaker 2
I owned a phone depending on your budget and where you are right now. Let's start with this part here. Okay? Let's see how we can help each other out. And we want also you to get trust, you know, to trust us. So let's start with this first part.