Hiring Strategies & Purple Squirrels with Suman Cherry, Owner of Cherry Talent Group

Join our host, Lee Murray as he delves into hiring and retaining top talent with Suman Cherry, owner of Cherry Talent Group. They discuss crafting positive company culture and streamlining hiring processes. From remote work dynamics to the impact of social media, this episode offers essential insights for companies committed to attracting and retaining exceptional employees. 

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Go here: https://www.harvardmurray.com/exploring-growth-podcast

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Lee - https://www.linkedin.com/in/leehmurray
Suman - https://www.linkedin.com/in/sumancherry/

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So take some time to get to know them

and understand what their life is,

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who they are.

Because it's not a family.

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It's a community, right?

It's a community.

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But we all have lives outside of

the office, and so there needs to

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be boundaries around that as well.

Like we can't expect people to be

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on call for us 24 hours a day.

It's not realistic. Yeah.

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If they have lives outside of

their homes.

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And that's not always,

always it's been because people

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have been so scared to like,

I'm going to lose my job.

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I'm going to lose my job.

What happens?

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I don't know,

but that's not the case. All right.

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Welcome back to Exploring Growth.

Today we have the opportunity to

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hear from an expert on hiring.

You know, the landscaping,

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the landscape for finding

qualified employees today is,

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to say the least, kind of crazy.

So, you know what I'm hoping in

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bringing on our guest today is that

what we can do is dig a little bit

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deeper into this topic and see if

we can get some new insights,

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on finding and hiring a players.

My guest is Suman Cherry,

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owner of Cherry Talent Group.

Welcome to Exploring Growth,

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Suman. Thank you so much.

I love being here. Yeah that's great.

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So am I correct in saying that

things are crazy right now?

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I mean, I've been in recruiting

for 20 plus years, right?

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So it's always been this.

It's just okay.

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You know, I think the challenge,

the difference between now and

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what kind of happened after Covid

is that before, people were just

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more tolerant to certain types

of behaviors and certain types

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of situations that at work.

And then I think when they all

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went home during Covid and they

started working on their mental

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health and their healing work and

all the things. Like.

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Something isn't adding up.

So very strong quality candidates

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which they've always been challenging

to find the, you know the A-plus

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candidates, they have a lot more

options in the sense they're just

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not settling for what they used

to settle for from organizations.

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Yeah. Yeah. And I see that too.

You know, when our paths crossed,

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this will be a great this is a good

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timing to bring you on because I

can feel the pain in a unique way.

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One of my clients,

is in the training business.

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They have a trained ophthalmic techs

in the ophthalmology industry and

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all of those medical practices.

You know, she's feeling a ripple

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effect of those practices,

not being able to find and retain

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high quality techs or staff, and so, you know, I, I don't

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just see it with her business.

I see it kind of broadly,

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but I'm seeing it firsthand,

through through her business and

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to her client, you know, set.

And their pain is probably the number

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one thing they're thinking about is

how do I keep these a players and

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then how do I find new, more players?

So, I see it all over.

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It just seems like you were

saying like after Covid,

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it seemed like in a sense,

no one wanted to work anymore.

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I don't know what that was about.

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It was like the quiet,

quiet quitting.

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I think they used to call it.

Yeah, right.

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I would love to jump into some

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of your insights, and just

kind of talk strategies about,

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like, like, first of all, let's,

let's kind of like, dig a little bit

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deeper into what are the insights

you're seeing from your side.

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could benefit from hearing from.

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And then I would love to talk

about strategies. Yeah. For sure.

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So what I'm seeing is, is that, I think the thing is,

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is like, companies are really

trying to adjust to this kind of

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new way of working. Right?

It's always been this sort of

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situation, like this idea like,

oh, we're a family.

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Come in like, give us your life.

You know, we're going to give

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you some benefits.

We're going to give you these 3%

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raises. And free pizza. Yeah.

Free pizza.

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We're going to expect like all

of this. Right.

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And then we're probably going to

also do something where we're

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going to bring other people and

pay them more and promote that.

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Like it's just always been this

like sort of game that employees,

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employers have created.

I mean, just to be honest,

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and I'm not saying this is the

case of all companies. Sure.

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But the companies I see that

really thrive,

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like our clients that we work with,

that really thrive, are the companies

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that have flexibility with this,

that understand this and their their

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culture, their core values as an

organization, their behaviors.

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It's not just a note they put on

their wall.

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They are working and practicing

this all the time.

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They have a lot of transparency

at their organizations.

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There's a lot of authenticity at the

organizations. There's a lot of care.

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They really want their people to

succeed because they realize by

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having their people be engaged,

they're also going to produce

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better results for them on the

other side of it.

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So the really great companies are

now taking that time to understand,

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like, do we need more flexibility?

Do people need to be able to

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work from home a couple of days?

What is that going to look like?

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People want more than just pizza,

right?

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People want the opportunity for

to be in front of leadership.

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That's another piece.

Like,

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if you're a leader of a company,

you need to know your people.

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Like you need to know what's

going on in their lives.

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You need to spend that time those

first three months when they're

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onboarding with you to, like, get

them engaged. They don't know you.

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So take some time to get to know them

and understand what their life is,

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who they are.

Because it's not a family.

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It's a community, right?

It's a community.

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But we all have lives outside of

the office, and so there needs to

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be boundaries around that as well.

Like we can't expect people to be

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on call for us 24 hours a day.

It's not realistic if they have

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lived outside of their homes.

And that's not always,

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always it's been because people

have been so scared to like,

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I'm going to lose my job.

I'm going to lose my job.

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What happens?

I don't know,

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but that's not the case.

Very strong quality cats,

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which we find all the time who

are passive candidates.

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A lot of times we recruit passively.

We use the job boards and those types

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of things which are very effective.

But we also lots of our

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placements are people that were

poaching and taking from other

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companies where they're like,

not even actively in the market.

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And usually it's a situation where

they're like, well, I don't know,

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something's going on.

Things are slowing down.

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I have a little bit of fear.

They're not hiring people or

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we're overwhelmed.

I'm doing the job of 3 or 4 people.

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The other side is trying to hire

people, but they're not taking, you

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know, so it's just a quality piece.

And so then they start getting

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disengaged.

And as soon as you disengage,

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that's when you're ready to move on.

Yeah, that's that's a very

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interesting point to stop on,

because I think that's what I'm

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seeing in my clients client

specifically in that there's doesn't

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seem like there's enough attention

paid to the work to communicating

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that the work that they're doing

is is productive and effective

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and that they're being seen, that's what that's what it

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appears to. To me, that's what it is.

I mean, and it's, I mean,

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I always I make jokes like,

it's like a relationship, right?

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Like in a relationship,

you want to be seen, right?

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You want to be heard,

you want to be acknowledged,

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and you want to have some level of

connection in that relationship.

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Yes. Right. Yes.

And that's what people want at

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their organizations as well.

They want to feel like they are

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important, like they're not a

transaction to the organization.

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Like their opinions matter.

They have transparency.

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They know what's going on with

the leadership team.

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Yeah,

there is opportunity for growth.

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Those are actual conversations,

not just some flippant oh yeah, like

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we'll look at that in six months.

No. Like let's a real conversation.

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Let's sit down and really look

at strategically where we're

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going to move up because we as

humans are all about growth.

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Any time that we're stuck in a

stagnant situation where we

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don't grow, we contract,

and we feel terrible and it

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affects our mental health.

So if you're an organization that

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wants to grow and thrive, your people

also have to be in environments where

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they're growing and thriving as well.

Yeah, it seems like they want,

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you know, they meaning me, everyone.

Right? We're all the same.

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Like we all want to be connected

to what is happening in the

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company at some degree.

I mean, some larger degree,

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probably more than ever.

But that being communicated back

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to that, that person in whatever

the context of their role is,

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I think is imperative, I think on the other end of

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the spectrum, though,

it seems like the companies and I've,

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I've always kind of it's always been

sort of a red flag to me when I'll

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go into a client or, prospect

or a company and they will talk

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about their employees as a family.

And I immediately think, okay,

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let's unpack that a little bit,

because to me, I think that's

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taking a little too far.

I like that you called it a community

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because I think that's more of a

purpose, purposeful way of truly,

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genuinely connecting people,

to a purpose.

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But it's not taking it to the

extent that we're really you're

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lying to them.

And that's the way I look at it

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is like you're I'm telling you're

telling me I'm part of family.

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I'm not part of your family.

Like, you don't come to my barbecues.

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You don't. We don't. You don't.

I don't speak to you the way I

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speak to my brother, you know. It's not that.

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So let's not call it that.

Let's not act like it is that because

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whenever you let me go, then I'm

not part of your family anymore.

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So what does that look like, so I really like that.

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That language you used about it

being a community, because.

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And I'll take one step further that

I think looking out, you know,

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as a marketer, I look out into the, the audience is and, and say,

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okay, well, how are people trying

to get connected and where can

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this brand connect with them while

they're trying to, you know,

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attach themselves and their identity

to this purchase or whatever it

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may be, because a lot of what is

done today, and I think even in

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part the way people go to work

is based on their identity.

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It's what does this say about me

that I'm in this role?

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And then how am I giving back to,

you know,

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my life and the lives around me, by by doing this thing.

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And I just think that,

that's a very important piece of it.

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But it can't be.

Can't be taken too far. We take.

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We take it too far.

It starts to get, it turns

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into something that is not right.

It turns into a lot of codependency.

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This attachment thing,

this whole idea of, like this, oh,

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like almost like a candidate or an

employee feels like they're, oh,

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they owe something to their employers

or something, which is not the case.

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It should be a collaboration piece

like I give you give we receive.

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You know what I mean?

Like just give and take type of

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piece.

So when it's a community, what it is,

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is that like this is how I see our,

my company, for instance,

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and this is what I really love

about our organization is that I've

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created an organization where we I

hold the capacity for my people to

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have the growth and the expansion.

I said I was a leader.

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It's a community to have,

positive conflict,

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to have real conversations,

to be able to actually get through

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things and then have the results

on the other side by having those

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conversations and letting everyone

have sort of a voice in that.

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And then also I'm not micromanaging

the process because I hire people.

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I give them the opportunity to

make the right choices,

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to do the things that we're,

you know, are asked of them.

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And those are their choices.

And that kind of plays out from an

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accountability responsibility piece.

Right?

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So because I'm not anyone's mom,

right?

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I don't want to be anyone's mom.

Like that's not my role.

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And I think a lot of times what

happens in this community, I mean,

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in companies is the a lot of the

times the owners or the executive

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levels, they almost take on this

like role where they're they even

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believe that they're, they always

take this like idea that they, that

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they're people are reflecting like.

So I'm trying to think about how

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I'm wording this. Okay.

It's almost like executives they

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get their get their feelings hurt.

If their people have any type of

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like, something like, oh,

they're not grateful.

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They should just be happy to

have a job like this whole idea,

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which is not the case. Right?

Right. That's not the case.

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And so there's it's kind of an odd

situation because you're right.

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And then you get fired or you let

go because it doesn't work out or

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whatever else, or the person leaves,

and then everyone's just like so

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devastated by this.

And it's like, well, you know,

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versus it being a situation

where we outgrow things or it's

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not the right match, it's okay.

You know, we have the emotions

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around it and we move on. Yeah.

And then and then what happens

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is companies get terrified of

hiring people. Sure.

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And then they're so scared the

next time they hire.

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So yeah,

that relationship has to be right.

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Like the, you know,

just this this idea of, like,

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connecting them to their purpose

and the company's purpose and that

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being an alignment as much as it

possibly can for as long as it can,

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is a healthy right relationship.

And the employee coming to the

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table not also getting out of

whack that they think the

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company owes them something.

You know,

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that could also be a problem.

Yeah, and. That happens as well.

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I mean, we I hear all the time with

candidates like, why are you looking?

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It's like, well and I get the

understanding of seeing I'm not being

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heard and those kinds of things.

But there's also an unrealistic

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expectation as well. Yeah.

You know,

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and you see that with people.

And I don't want to say anything

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about people that move around a

lot with jobs.

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But you see that a lot of times

when people have moved from job to

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job to job, you know, every year

in ten years and their reasoning

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is always like, well, the company.

But there's a lack of accountability

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on their part where their

expectations like at the end of

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the day, this is a job. Yeah.

They hired you to to fill us to

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create a solution.

If you're not able to create

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that solution.

Yeah, we're giving those tools.

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And you weren't you didn't

follow through then.

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That's also on you. Right.

So for the companies that are

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getting it right,

the ones that are making this

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connection and alignment of purpose

or however they are thinking of it,

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but they're listening to this and

thinking, okay, yeah, I think we're

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getting that pretty good, right?

But we need more of those people,

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right?

How you know, because I automatically

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think marketing. Right.

Like, how do you take something

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that's good and share it with

more people that are like minded?

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What would be your kind of strategy

there of saying, okay, we've got

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good people, we've got maybe even

the makings of a good culture.

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We have good communication,

alignment, purpose, all this.

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We just need to find more of

those people. Right? Right.

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So I work with a client,

out of Arizona, and he just does

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it so well, first of all,

like he does do a lot of marketing.

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So the marketing piece is huge

for him. He uses a lot of video.

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He engages his people.

He puts up a lot of information

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around who they are as a core

value standpoint.

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So I do think the branding piece is

very important as an organization.

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Like I am a full believer in

marketing and social media and

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all those kind of things,

so that because you want people

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to know your message and you

have to align with that message.

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So that needs to be number one,

number one, number two,

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in order to attract those kinds

of people, you have to.

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Companies are always in a rush

to hire, right?

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They will rush the process.

They don't have any process to

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hiring.

They wait till the last minute to

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hire people until they're in a

situation where either people are

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leaving or there's like they're not

happy, like people aren't happy.

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And so they're like, oh, versus a

really good client recognizes that

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maybe something's not working out

with a potential candidate, or maybe

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they need to move into their role.

So even before it becomes an issue,

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they start that process of

looking for someone else.

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So they give themselves time to go

through that process. Number two.

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The process itself needs to have

a streamlined approach to it.

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Like what happens so much with

companies is they have so much going

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on, and this is why they use external

recruiters in the first place,

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is because they have so much going

on internally that a lot of times

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good candidates might come through,

but they fall through the cracks.

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They're not followed up with they,

you know, they're ghosted and

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then they're called back two

weeks later and they're like,

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okay, I already took a job.

Or that impression is soured.

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Yeah, I have a bad taste in my mouth.

Like, you know, like I interviewed

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six times for this job and they call

me back four weeks later and they're

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like, oh, we want to hire you.

And like, no, I don't want to

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work for you. Right? Yeah.

So that that process itself

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needs to be very streamlined.

You need to have like who is

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going to interview people.

How is that process going to

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look right from the initial time

when the interview is sent,

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and the time is that screened?

Who's going to actually handle

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the responsibility of.

Because nobody ever wants to

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take responsibility for hiring

or is always like,

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it's your responsibility.

You just kick it down the road,

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right?

But like, what is our game plan?

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Have we sat down as a team before

this person interviewed and have

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a conversation about them?

Do we know what what kind of

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questions, what we're wanting to

get from this person?

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The other piece is the

interviewing itself.

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Like we ourselves have created a

signature interview process.

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That's not bias, right?

Because it's always this idea like,

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oh, I liked him.

Why did you like what was it you

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liked about them?

We based it on the idea that the

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ideal, the ideal employee is

going to have four attributes.

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They're going to have the ability,

whatever look of the ability that is.

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Most companies focus so much on

ability that they miss out on

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the other opportunities.

We look for people who are

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humble that take responsibility.

This responsibility is huge because

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you can't teach that to someone.

Accountability.

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Responsibility versus ego versus

someone who's like,

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that's not a me problem.

That's a them problem all the time.

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So you have to identify that.

And the thing is,

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ego people interview very well.

We interview very, very, very because

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they. Can talk about themselves.

They're PR agents for themselves.

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Yeah, because they're the best

of everything. And that's great.

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But like let's really deep dive

into that.

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Like what does that look like right.

Yeah.

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So like our questioning is so

out of the box.

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We ask very out of the box questions

other than just ability or like to

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walk me through your experience

because we're trying to get a gauge

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on who they are as a person outside

of their resume. We're also looking.

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The other piece you want to look

at with every single candidate is,

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are they even hungry for your

position? Are they even motivated?

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Because a lot of times what happens

is you have someone who's done the

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job for 15 years, 20 years, and they, they're tired of that role.

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They're actually looking at that

next role.

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And so they come into the company

and they're like kind of just doing

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the job because they're looking,

but they're only looking at that

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next position.

So let's talk about some hungry

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stories like let's find out

they're motivated.

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They really motivated for your

opportunity.

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Are they excited about what

you're doing.

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Like the ideal person is to find

someone who's like a step below,

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but then that ability piece comes in

because you're going to do a little

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more training with them, right?

So because if someone has a

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little bit less experience,

they're probably going to be a little

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more motivated because it kind of

correlates. I see that. Yeah. Yeah.

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So so you know, all the things

you're mentioning here are really

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the makings of the a great fabric

or a foundation of a good culture.

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And so, you know,

I think some business owners,

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executives, they should be

thinking about this is not only a

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transactional type of thing where,

okay, we are going to spend a little

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bit more time on our process.

We are going to try to,

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you know, have better questions.

We're going to do these tactical

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things.

No, you're going to do all those

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things because of the result

that it brings, not only short

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term and maybe a good next hire,

but multiple good next hires that

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are going to make up the future

culture and therefore customer

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experience and all of those.

And also it allows your team to

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have deeper conversations.

So if you're doing like a score,

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like what we do, like our clients,

we teach our clients how to do

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the scoring system so that they

can use the same utilizing.

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So we compare those and then they

can compare those in the team.

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So if someone has a different

score it's like let's have some

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conversations about that as well.

Yeah that's great.

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So it's more objective.

Yeah it's more objective.

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And also it allows the team to

have a better because most times

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companies don't even know what

they really want.

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So that's really important to you.

I had to get really crystal clear.

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Like there's there's only there's not

many purple squirrels out there.

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Unicorns.

Let's get really realistic about

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what we really need. Yeah.

Yeah yeah yeah for sure. Yeah.

361

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All this stuff has to be.

It's like there.

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It's almost like if companies aren't

doing this, they have to stop and

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say, okay, is it time for us to

carve space for this type of thing?

364

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And if it's not, then why?

Why is it not, you know,

365

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are we are we doing well enough in

hiring and have great people that we

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don't need to pay attention to? This?

I would say most people are not

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excelling at it.

I mean, even if they do have a

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good culture of it's sort of like,

you know, I take care of my clients

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really well. I have good retention.

They, you know,

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we're always there for other needs,

but no one knows that we exist.

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So, you know, we're not having

new ones come through the door.

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Right. It's similar in the hiring.

Yeah. And yeah.

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And I also think that the thing is,

is that there's always room to

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improve the process itself.

There's always this is human to

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human. This isn't a transactional.

This isn't a product.

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This is a person. Right?

I mean, our model, we've really

377

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created a model that we do everything

on consulting basis, right?

378

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So we don't do everything like the

way that most traditional recruiters

379

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do it from a fee perspective.

And we know it works because

380

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this is how we do it.

And we are able to not just

381

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attract incredible candidates,

but have those deeper conversations.

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And we've had we've placed so many

quality people for our clients.

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And the reason is, is because by

the time they go in front of the

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client to have that interview,

the there's already an understanding

385

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that they already have a lot of

those values that are going to be

386

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so important to the organization.

So those conversations are so

387

00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:15,110

much better, right?

It's just a better conversation.

388

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And and the candidate on their side

knows what that this core value.

389

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Because that's another piece. Right?

If a company brings in a consultant

390

00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:28,460

to talk about to interview, it also

shows a company, a a candidate,

391

00:21:28,460 --> 00:21:32,780

how much a client is invested in

them and the organization as well.

392

00:21:32,780 --> 00:21:34,670

It really does.

Kind of has like a flip.

393

00:21:34,670 --> 00:21:37,250

It's interesting because like it

creates like, oh,

394

00:21:37,250 --> 00:21:39,500

you guys are consultants.

Oh, you guys do this like you're

395

00:21:39,500 --> 00:21:41,870

asking these great questions.

You're spending an hour and a

396

00:21:41,870 --> 00:21:44,690

half interviewing us.

I mean, it's not even an interview,

397

00:21:44,900 --> 00:21:48,860

you know? So we're doing write ups.

We're doing all the process.

398

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We know everything what the client

do. So that's the other thing.

399

00:21:51,650 --> 00:21:54,950

Like when you use it, recruiters.

And I'm not saying you should use us,

400

00:21:54,950 --> 00:21:58,940

but when you use a recruiter ideally,

and if you're using an internal

401

00:21:58,940 --> 00:22:01,400

recruiter, those internal recruiters

should be able to get on the phone

402

00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:05,520

and really talk about who you

guys are on that initial call.

403

00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:07,200

Even that job description should

have it.

404

00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:09,600

Like all of our job descriptions,

we create marketing job

405

00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:12,720

descriptions that talk about who

the organization is.

406

00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:15,150

There's no this cloak and dagger

thing, like, who is this?

407

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Like, no, it's like, this is who

we are. This is what we do.

408

00:22:18,540 --> 00:22:21,210

And there also needs to be realistic

expectations, like when you're

409

00:22:21,210 --> 00:22:25,410

interviewing people or you're

talking about like a position,

410

00:22:25,410 --> 00:22:28,260

it needs to be a realistic thing.

This this is the problems we're

411

00:22:28,260 --> 00:22:30,150

having.

This is what we're experiencing.

412

00:22:30,150 --> 00:22:32,520

This is what's happened.

This is what's not worked.

413

00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:34,980

Can you help us?

Because really, ultimately

414

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that's what you want, right?

You want someone to create a solution

415

00:22:37,890 --> 00:22:42,000

for your problem. Right? Yeah.

And all those questions, I mean,

416

00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:45,720

as a consultant, I can tell you that,

you know, the way that you can

417

00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:48,570

demonstrate expertise is through

the questions that you ask.

418

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Because by asking a question

that they have not processed yet

419

00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:55,950

or thought through yet,

it demonstrates that you've been

420

00:22:55,950 --> 00:23:01,140

there and and kind of done that, and you can provide insights

421

00:23:01,140 --> 00:23:03,180

behind it.

So I think in the interviewing

422

00:23:03,180 --> 00:23:07,320

process, it's the same way if

you have very, you know,

423

00:23:08,190 --> 00:23:11,040

insightful questions that are

going to draw out for the right

424

00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:15,180

candidate are going to dry out, you know, what you need then?

425

00:23:15,180 --> 00:23:18,990

That's that's really your expertise.

I mean, that's the CEO.

426

00:23:19,020 --> 00:23:24,750

The even the HR manager is not

necessarily tasked with being,

427

00:23:25,020 --> 00:23:29,880, that, dialed in. Right.

Well, and they can't be.

428

00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,910

I mean, they have a million other

responsibilities. That's the thing.

429

00:23:32,910 --> 00:23:35,820

People hiring is like an

afterthought for people because

430

00:23:35,820 --> 00:23:38,760

of the cost associated with it.

And there's a lot of fear.

431

00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:41,640

I mean, I just watched a podcast

earlier today, actually,

432

00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:45,090

and they were he was talking about

how people have he had helped

433

00:23:45,090 --> 00:23:47,520

come these higher like thousands

of people for franchises.

434

00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,370

And he was saying,

there's so much fear that people

435

00:23:50,370 --> 00:23:52,710

actually have fear of hiring

people that are better than them.

436

00:23:52,710 --> 00:23:55,890

Like this fear like someone

comes in is actually incredible.

437

00:23:55,890 --> 00:23:58,500

And I've had that happen.

Like you didn't hire them, but I

438

00:23:58,500 --> 00:24:01,860

realized there was fear from the

other person. I've seen. That too.

439

00:24:01,860 --> 00:24:06,330

Yeah, but versus seeing it from a, different way, like,

440

00:24:06,330 --> 00:24:09,720

not scarcity.

Hey, like my recruiters that are

441

00:24:09,780 --> 00:24:12,630

higher, they're better than me.

And I'm like, great,

442

00:24:12,630 --> 00:24:15,150

be better than me.

My business development manager,

443

00:24:15,150 --> 00:24:19,170

he's better than me, right?

And I'm totally okay with that. Yeah.

444

00:24:19,170 --> 00:24:22,200

I want them to be like,

why else would I hire them?

445

00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:25,050

But, you know, that kind of gets

back to mindset really.

446

00:24:25,050 --> 00:24:30,490

Because, what I, you know,

I ascribe to the, Jocko Willink,

447

00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:34,570, extreme. What is it, extreme ownership,

448

00:24:34,570 --> 00:24:39,130

kind of. Responsibility. Yeah.

And I always kind of put it back

449

00:24:39,130 --> 00:24:42,520

on the leadership,

and whomever is at the top,

450

00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:47,050

because whoever's at the top is

really setting the, the pace for,

451

00:24:47,170 --> 00:24:49,840, for growth, for culture.

They're they're they're setting

452

00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,930

the tone, and it's, it's on them to

453

00:24:52,930 --> 00:24:55,990

have the proper mindset or put

the right people around them to

454

00:24:55,990 --> 00:24:59,680

encourage the right mindset, for this type of thinking,

455

00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,470

because I think you come into it

either with a scarcity or an

456

00:25:02,470 --> 00:25:06,490

abundance type of mentality,

and you're going to get out of it.

457

00:25:06,490 --> 00:25:09,820

It's almost like the sub

conversation that's going on

458

00:25:09,820 --> 00:25:13,360

while all the work is going on,

and then the result is based on all

459

00:25:13,360 --> 00:25:17,500

that sub conversation. Yeah. Yeah.

And and the thing is, the great part

460

00:25:17,500 --> 00:25:21,850

about bringing in really top talent

is it makes the people that aren't

461

00:25:21,850 --> 00:25:25,120

the right people your organization

really uncomfortable, right?

462

00:25:25,120 --> 00:25:28,210

Because the people that are really

because there's different there's

463

00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:30,970

you know, I've read this many times

and I'm sure you've seen this like,

464

00:25:30,970 --> 00:25:34,000

you've got the ideal candidate is

always going to be a high producer,

465

00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,700

high value. Right.

Those are your A+ candidates.

466

00:25:36,700 --> 00:25:40,240

Then you've got your, you know,

high value, maybe lower producer

467

00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:41,830

because they're younger.

They're they're greener. Right.

468

00:25:41,830 --> 00:25:43,780

Or I don't wanna say younger but

less experienced.

469

00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,870

They still thrive in organizations

if they have the right mentorship.

470

00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:49,090

And then of course there's low

producers, low value.

471

00:25:49,090 --> 00:25:52,150

That's easy to get rid of them.

The hardest people to always get

472

00:25:52,150 --> 00:25:54,760

rid of, an organization that

will always be triggered by new

473

00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:58,720

people coming in are going to be

high producers, low value.

474

00:25:58,750 --> 00:26:01,420

Those are the people that are the

hardest people for companies to

475

00:26:01,420 --> 00:26:04,240

get rid of because they produce,

they make the money,

476

00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:06,910

they're hitting their numbers,

but they create havoc from it,

477

00:26:06,910 --> 00:26:10,240

cause problems. Oh, they're awful.

It's awful. Yeah.

478

00:26:10,510 --> 00:26:14,980

And that that really shows you I've

seen those those time and time again.

479

00:26:14,980 --> 00:26:18,610

And it shows instantly the

culture that the leadership is

480

00:26:18,610 --> 00:26:21,670

trying to build. Absolutely.

Because they will either instantly

481

00:26:21,670 --> 00:26:25,300

sniff it out and get rid of them

or they will not talk about it.

482

00:26:26,050 --> 00:26:27,490

Are they?

And they'll just keep it and

483

00:26:27,490 --> 00:26:31,240

justify the behavior,

justify the air calls, justify

484

00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:34,630

everyone else because this person is

making X amount of money for them.

485

00:26:34,630 --> 00:26:37,240

Justify all the whatever

behavior there is.

486

00:26:37,540 --> 00:26:40,870

I've seen it so many times,

like so many times.

487

00:26:40,870 --> 00:26:43,990

And that behavior that they're

creating, first of all,

488

00:26:43,990 --> 00:26:46,630

those younger people,

the less experienced when they

489

00:26:46,630 --> 00:26:50,110

will not stay because that's not

creating a healthy environment.

490

00:26:50,110 --> 00:26:52,030

And guess what happens?

You're a plus.

491

00:26:52,030 --> 00:26:56,350

You're the ones they leave.

That's one of the main reasons they

492

00:26:56,350 --> 00:27:00,640

leave, because their leadership

is so keeping people like

493

00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:06,220

managers that aren't high value.

They're prioritizing the people

494

00:27:06,220 --> 00:27:09,880

who should be prioritized.

Absolutely. So there is definitely.

495

00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:12,310

But the great thing is,

when you bring great people in,

496

00:27:12,310 --> 00:27:16,420

it weeds out the people that really

aren't there aren't the right matches

497

00:27:16,420 --> 00:27:18,890

because they'll start being like,

this whole thing will start,

498

00:27:18,890 --> 00:27:21,740

you know what I mean? Yeah.

Which is good. Yeah.

499

00:27:21,740 --> 00:27:26,900

So, something else that comes

to mind is this this kind of like.

500

00:27:27,290 --> 00:27:30,050

Well, first of all, there's work

from home, you know, work,

501

00:27:30,050 --> 00:27:33,290

work remote or be in the office.

That's something maybe we could

502

00:27:33,290 --> 00:27:35,900

talk about.

But yeah, you know, even more so

503

00:27:35,900 --> 00:27:40,610

freelance versus full time employee,

whether they're remote or not. Right.

504

00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:46,970, I know my team is 100% freelance, and it works beautifully for me

505

00:27:46,970 --> 00:27:51,680

because it's like I'm hiring all

these other little business owners

506

00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:56,540

that are have so much ownership in

what they're doing because they don't

507

00:27:56,540 --> 00:28:00,410

want to lose me as a client. Right.

So therefore the result trickles

508

00:28:00,410 --> 00:28:05,840

down into the, you know, a higher

result achieved for my client. Right?

509

00:28:05,900 --> 00:28:11,120, whereas I see on, you know,

on the whole, you have employees that

510

00:28:11,120 --> 00:28:14,180

are a little bit they're more to

manage and you always have to keep

511

00:28:14,180 --> 00:28:18,620

them fully occupied or they will

leave, or they will, you know,

512

00:28:18,620 --> 00:28:24,560

start to become lesser value, and it it is it's just heavier,

513

00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,200

you know, it's not as light.

It's not as lean. Right.

514

00:28:27,230 --> 00:28:29,990, so I'm interested to,

you know, your perspective.

515

00:28:29,990 --> 00:28:32,000

Freelance first full time.

I know it depends on the

516

00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,000

business and all of that.

Yeah, I mean, I obviously I have a,

517

00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,490

I have some freelance people

that work for me and then I have

518

00:28:37,490 --> 00:28:40,400

obviously employees.

So here's how I feel about it.

519

00:28:40,490 --> 00:28:46,340

I think if you are a leader and

you care about your people and you

520

00:28:46,340 --> 00:28:50,390

engage with your people and you

lead your people in a positive way,

521

00:28:50,390 --> 00:28:54,020

no matter even on the freelance side,

because you could have you can

522

00:28:54,020 --> 00:28:56,870

have it be a total cluster on

that side too. Oh yeah.

523

00:28:57,020 --> 00:28:58,640

It has to do with you as an

individual,

524

00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:03,200

like you as your leadership, your

belief in the whatever it might be,

525

00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:06,860

whether because belief is everything.

Whatever we believe is true like

526

00:29:06,860 --> 00:29:09,290

that is true.

And we and then that's the truth.

527

00:29:09,290 --> 00:29:12,200

And like, what is your really belief?

Does it work? Does it not work?

528

00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:14,780

And what can you hold

accountable to yourself?

529

00:29:14,780 --> 00:29:17,810

And what can you tell on your

accountability for your people?

530

00:29:17,810 --> 00:29:21,020

And are you relaying that in a

direct way with your people?

531

00:29:21,020 --> 00:29:23,990

If there is an issue that comes up,

let's have a conversation.

532

00:29:23,990 --> 00:29:27,290

Let's not just sweep this under,

let's have a conversation.

533

00:29:27,290 --> 00:29:31,010

Let's not go whisper about it to Suzy

down the street or down the road,

534

00:29:31,010 --> 00:29:34,040

you know, in the cubicle next to

me and start a whole thing?

535

00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:37,430

No, let's like, actually assume

positive intent, right?

536

00:29:37,430 --> 00:29:41,460

That's one of our core values as a

company. We assume positive intent.

537

00:29:41,490 --> 00:29:44,250

We just assume that people are

doing the right thing. Right?

538

00:29:44,250 --> 00:29:47,640

And then if they show us they're

not or whatever it might be,

539

00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:49,440

then of course we'll have those

conversations.

540

00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:53,820

But let's assume that people are

not doing things to hurt, like to

541

00:29:53,820 --> 00:29:56,580

destroy everything or something.

There's always this idea,

542

00:29:56,580 --> 00:30:00,510

like this whole work from home thing.

Look again, like you can I work from

543

00:30:00,510 --> 00:30:03,210

home? I my people work from home.

We meet in the office sometimes

544

00:30:03,210 --> 00:30:05,970

and those types of things.

And and you have to allow your

545

00:30:05,970 --> 00:30:08,880

people to have that choice,

like they're going to show their

546

00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:11,490

colors pretty quickly.

If it's a good match or not,

547

00:30:11,490 --> 00:30:14,130

you're going to know if they're

doing their job because the activity

548

00:30:14,130 --> 00:30:17,460

is going to create the results.

That's right. Right. So yeah.

549

00:30:17,460 --> 00:30:22,530

I think we live in a day in time

where work from home is.

550

00:30:22,710 --> 00:30:24,630

Yeah, I don't know.

There are there are companies

551

00:30:24,630 --> 00:30:28,200

who are adamantly against it,

but I don't think that their

552

00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:32,250

cultures are that robust.

I think that the cultures that

553

00:30:32,250 --> 00:30:37,230

are robust have a mix, now, of course, you know it.

554

00:30:37,230 --> 00:30:40,230

There's differences because you

have the enterprise level where

555

00:30:40,230 --> 00:30:42,330

you have thousands and tens of

thousands of employees.

556

00:30:42,330 --> 00:30:46,230

And of course, logistics of certain

things have to. Have certain.

557

00:30:46,230 --> 00:30:48,660

Ways, you know, if you have to

put your hands on equipment,

558

00:30:48,660 --> 00:30:50,850

you got to be there to put your hands

on the equipment. Right? Right.

559

00:30:51,030 --> 00:30:54,480, and as you get smaller,

maybe you have more flexibility,

560

00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,210

depending on what it is that the

client and how you're serving them.

561

00:30:57,210 --> 00:31:00,930

But I always look at it as what's the

result or the outcome that we're

562

00:31:00,930 --> 00:31:04,620

trying to achieve, and how can we

both be aligned to do to achieve

563

00:31:04,620 --> 00:31:09,030

that outcome. Right, exactly.

And I think that's just I think with,

564

00:31:09,030 --> 00:31:12,510

with with with your people,

you know, as a, as a leaders of your

565

00:31:12,510 --> 00:31:15,870

organization, it's a lot of very

good communication, like one of the

566

00:31:15,870 --> 00:31:18,720

other one of the things we also

look for when we interview people,

567

00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:22,350

and it's probably the most important

piece, is people with a high

568

00:31:22,350 --> 00:31:27,270

emotional EQ it is so important to

work with self-aware people like

569

00:31:27,270 --> 00:31:30,450

leadership that's self-aware,

leadership that takes responsibility,

570

00:31:30,450 --> 00:31:34,230

leadership that is good at

communication. It's not fear based.

571

00:31:34,230 --> 00:31:36,840

When you know you have a bad

month or a couple bad months,

572

00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:40,380

and everyone's like freaking out and

like having those conversations.

573

00:31:40,380 --> 00:31:42,780

What do you think it does to your

people? You can't have those.

574

00:31:42,870 --> 00:31:45,270

You have to be the leader.

You have to be the support.

575

00:31:45,270 --> 00:31:50,370

So how can we as a person be more

regulated, the leadership team be

576

00:31:50,370 --> 00:31:53,280

more regulated in their emotions

because it is just emotion.

577

00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:56,940

It's reaction versus response.

Reaction versus do you let your

578

00:31:56,940 --> 00:32:02,370

emotions, your fear, the worst

case scenario, run your business?

579

00:32:02,370 --> 00:32:05,800

Or do you allow yourself to run

it from a place of response and

580

00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:07,390

understanding?

Those things are hiccups.

581

00:32:07,390 --> 00:32:10,450

Situations happen.

Do we need to have conversations?

582

00:32:10,570 --> 00:32:12,460

We need to let go of people?

That's okay,

583

00:32:12,460 --> 00:32:16,330

but let's have those conversations.

Let's figure out the next piece

584

00:32:16,330 --> 00:32:19,180

instead of just sweeping it under

and then it explodes again.

585

00:32:19,180 --> 00:32:21,250

We blame everyone else.

We have, you know,

586

00:32:21,250 --> 00:32:24,160

it's like you see this like what

happened last year with all these

587

00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:27,010

poor people coming to their offices.

And like Katie, we work with our

588

00:32:27,010 --> 00:32:31,810

keycards. I mean, what? Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, I think, like,

589

00:32:31,810 --> 00:32:35,140

the one thing that I pull out of

this so far is communication, clear

590

00:32:35,140 --> 00:32:38,500

communication. That's what I've.

I was just about to hit on it before.

591

00:32:38,500 --> 00:32:41,500

You kind of summarize.

It's like, you know, you've got you

592

00:32:41,500 --> 00:32:45,520

got this sort of backdrop I think for

leadership about self-awareness,

593

00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:49,450

which is Uber important, and I think more time should

594

00:32:49,450 --> 00:32:53,110

be spent on how to more fully

develop self-awareness is a very

595

00:32:53,110 --> 00:32:55,780

difficult thing to do.

But yeah, that and then in front

596

00:32:55,780 --> 00:32:58,810

of it, which is more prominent

is clear communication.

597

00:32:58,810 --> 00:33:02,290

You've said many times have the

conversation right.

598

00:33:02,350 --> 00:33:06,640

That's that right.

There is really kind of the,

599

00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:09,730

the magic. That's the sweet sauce.

You know, if you could, if you

600

00:33:09,730 --> 00:33:13,720

could just have more conversations

wherever they may go. Right.

601

00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:18,520, that's going to probably build

bridges to places that they could go.

602

00:33:18,550 --> 00:33:21,310

Yeah, for sure.

And it builds connection. Right.

603

00:33:21,310 --> 00:33:24,490

So it's like you're, you know, I have

a daughter and it's like, you know,

604

00:33:24,490 --> 00:33:27,580

we have a very open communication.

My daughter and I like she's

605

00:33:27,580 --> 00:33:30,310

very comfortable being herself.

Like, you know what I mean.

606

00:33:30,310 --> 00:33:32,440

So there's something going on.

She can share that with me.

607

00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:34,330

So it's the same thing with your

people, right?

608

00:33:34,330 --> 00:33:36,850

We don't always know what people what

people are experiencing in their

609

00:33:36,850 --> 00:33:40,090

own lives and they do affect them.

So if you have that leadership

610

00:33:40,090 --> 00:33:42,910

team and I'm not saying there's

excuses and like, I'm not,

611

00:33:42,910 --> 00:33:45,070

that's not what I'm talking about.

But like we're going through

612

00:33:45,070 --> 00:33:46,630

something,

we're struggling with something.

613

00:33:46,630 --> 00:33:50,140

Maybe our production has gone down,

maybe we're a little bit not doing

614

00:33:50,140 --> 00:33:52,480

and we're scared to say anything.

Right.

615

00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,420

And then the leadership team,

your leader says to you like, hey,

616

00:33:55,840 --> 00:34:02,170

what's going on? Are you okay? Yeah.

And I think that comes across as

617

00:34:02,170 --> 00:34:06,040

genuine.

If the leader is consistent in

618

00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:10,000

trying to be genuine.

You know, if it's not just this,

619

00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:14,530

I need to deploy this tactic

because I gotta I gotta

620

00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:18,670

basically act empathetic so I

can get this thing done right.

621

00:34:18,790 --> 00:34:21,670, you know, in the moment,

people are going to see through

622

00:34:21,670 --> 00:34:24,280

that in an instant and they're

going to see that it's inauthentic.

623

00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:28,840

But if you are genuinely want to take

care of your people in a healthy way

624

00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:32,440

and you're having these conversations

ongoing and and trying to trying

625

00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:36,400

to bring a measure of more full

transparency, I think that people

626

00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:40,150

are going to respect you for it.

And you you sort of build this

627

00:34:40,150 --> 00:34:44,290

relationship equity that you can tap

into when you need to be a little

628

00:34:44,290 --> 00:34:48,190

bit more direct about how things

are going, because maybe you're in

629

00:34:48,190 --> 00:34:52,420

the season that you're, you know,

business is being called on.

630

00:34:52,420 --> 00:34:56,690

So, yeah, I think so too,

because I think then when you do

631

00:34:56,690 --> 00:34:59,330

need to have, like a conversation

about something that is something

632

00:34:59,330 --> 00:35:03,470

that they need to maybe improve on

or look at or something like that,

633

00:35:03,470 --> 00:35:06,380

it's not a doesn't feel like an

attack. Right? That's right.

634

00:35:06,380 --> 00:35:09,230

It doesn't feel like the only time

this leader comes to me is when they

635

00:35:09,230 --> 00:35:13,070

want to complain about something.

No, it's like they care about me.

636

00:35:13,070 --> 00:35:14,930

They care about me from this

perspective.

637

00:35:14,930 --> 00:35:17,300

They've been here for me or

whatever that looks like.

638

00:35:17,570 --> 00:35:21,710, they've supported me in

helping me. Now they're asking me.

639

00:35:21,710 --> 00:35:24,920

So it's more of that give and

take type of piece, right? Yeah.

640

00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:27,230

Now they're asking me like, hey,

I, we're going to need you to

641

00:35:27,230 --> 00:35:29,780

work a little bit extra, like,

we're going to need you to come in,

642

00:35:30,110 --> 00:35:32,270

stay till 7:00.

You know, whatever that might be,

643

00:35:32,270 --> 00:35:36,470

the employee is not going to feel

like, oh, this whole way. Right.

644

00:35:36,470 --> 00:35:39,590

And if they do, then they're not

the right employee. Right.

645

00:35:39,590 --> 00:35:43,130

So it's like, easy to kind of decide,

right, if that makes sense.

646

00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:46,310

It does, you know what?

Another thing came to mind is

647

00:35:46,310 --> 00:35:49,640

we're talking here, I don't know if you've seen this,

648

00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:53,750

but on social media, I've seen a

couple clips where people are talking

649

00:35:53,750 --> 00:35:58,100

about, I want to say, millennials

that they called out specifically,

650

00:35:58,100 --> 00:36:04,310

but it may have been Gen Z as well, that are taking quiet vacations

651

00:36:04,310 --> 00:36:07,940

where they're working from home.

I did see that. Yeah.

652

00:36:08,240 --> 00:36:10,250

What's your thought on that?

Like, is that ringing?

653

00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:13,940

I don't read the articles. So what?

Tell me specifically what it is like.

654

00:36:13,940 --> 00:36:16,220

Well, I don't know.

I it's really just.

655

00:36:16,490 --> 00:36:19,730

They're just they're like not saying

they're going on vacation. Yes.

656

00:36:19,730 --> 00:36:22,850

I think that's what it is, is where,

you know, they work from home.

657

00:36:22,850 --> 00:36:26,870

So they just sort of play the,

the game of yeah, I'm working,

658

00:36:26,870 --> 00:36:29,120

but really I'm on vacation.

Well, that's a problem.

659

00:36:29,240 --> 00:36:31,940

Which I think if you were to add

it up in, you know,

660

00:36:31,940 --> 00:36:37,160

do a statistic on how many people

are logged in and working and are

661

00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:40,880

actually logged in and working and

the amount of lost hours, that would

662

00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:44,510

be astronomical. The gap there.

But yeah, I mean,

663

00:36:44,510 --> 00:36:47,660

I could when I first saw it,

it made sense to me that that's

664

00:36:47,660 --> 00:36:50,690

what probably what they're doing.

And it made sense to me why they

665

00:36:50,690 --> 00:36:53,270

would do it, you know, because if you're

666

00:36:53,270 --> 00:36:57,080

not engaged at work, if you're not

connected to the purpose, if

667

00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:00,470

you don't have a sense of ownership

over what your responsibility is,

668

00:37:00,470 --> 00:37:02,780

all these things we've talked about,

oh. So many, then you're going.

669

00:37:02,780 --> 00:37:06,230

To easily say, oh,

this is just a game for me.

670

00:37:06,260 --> 00:37:09,590

You know, it's funny, I saw

something like a year or so ago,

671

00:37:09,590 --> 00:37:15,410

went around for a little while

where this guy had, applied and

672

00:37:15,410 --> 00:37:19,290

got hired at three different jobs

that he worked for. You know that?

673

00:37:19,290 --> 00:37:21,660

Yeah, he was making, like,

$1 million a year or something

674

00:37:21,660 --> 00:37:28,260

because we. Oh, man.

The things that people will do is.

675

00:37:28,260 --> 00:37:32,850

That's probably criminal.

It is. Yeah, I don't know.

676

00:37:33,690 --> 00:37:37,080

But that was that was funny to me.

Yeah, I don't know.

677

00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:40,260

I mean, I have clients who give

very I think the thing about

678

00:37:40,260 --> 00:37:43,140

vacation is it's interesting.

I have a client who gives

679

00:37:43,140 --> 00:37:45,840

unlimited vacation and nobody

feels like taking.

680

00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:48,780

I mean, it's like, yeah,

you give them unlimited vacation and

681

00:37:48,780 --> 00:37:51,000

no one really takes advantage of it,

you know what I mean?

682

00:37:51,180 --> 00:37:54,660

No, because nobody wants to be

on Vacation Unlimited anyways.

683

00:37:54,660 --> 00:37:57,540

I mean, I go on vacation.

Is an option. It's like if you if.

684

00:37:57,540 --> 00:38:00,540

I have a purpose, I want to get

back to that purpose. Exactly.

685

00:38:00,540 --> 00:38:05,400

So if there if people are taking

quiet vacations and and nobody's

686

00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:08,940

noticing for a week. Yeah.

What is that saying?

687

00:38:09,390 --> 00:38:12,870

It's so weird. It is so. Weird.

I mean, we live in a weird time.

688

00:38:13,020 --> 00:38:16,440

What can I say?

I mean, outside of this, it's crazy,

689

00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:21,240

like. And it's so weird. It's such.

A crazy. I know it is weird.

690

00:38:21,240 --> 00:38:24,840

And and social media and you.

And how many people are actually

691

00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:27,120

doing that?

Like social media goes and puts

692

00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:30,570

it out there like, every single.

So then what does it do then?

693

00:38:30,570 --> 00:38:32,970

Everyone's like,

company is like, oh yeah,

694

00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:38,430

four of my people to go vacation.

This is why they have to so justifies

695

00:38:38,430 --> 00:38:42,510

when 99% of people are not having.

That's right. Yeah.

696

00:38:42,510 --> 00:38:45,150

Quiet vacations working.

Well, they just say that's the

697

00:38:45,150 --> 00:38:48,990

problem. See, that's its other fault.

I don't know why a vacation.

698

00:38:48,990 --> 00:38:52,710

I don't need. To do anything.

I know, just justify. And so who?

699

00:38:52,980 --> 00:38:55,500

Whoever put it up was probably

like Amazon or whatever.

700

00:38:55,500 --> 00:38:57,330

They put the article out there

anyway. Yeah.

701

00:38:57,420 --> 00:38:58,980

Just to get people to be scared

and they.

702

00:38:58,980 --> 00:39:01,560

Can look at the article and say,

okay, let's get rid of another

703

00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:05,370

10,000. Yes. Yeah. That's the thing.

Like all the social media,

704

00:39:05,370 --> 00:39:07,440

all the I don't want to like go

into the whole thing.

705

00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:12,870

But it's so it's so jaded. Right.

It's like all created to treat a

706

00:39:12,870 --> 00:39:15,630

certain type of feeling about it.

Like they say.

707

00:39:15,630 --> 00:39:18,750

We live in a simulation.

Oh yes, don't even get in.

708

00:39:18,750 --> 00:39:22,740

I won't even go into my whew,

about all of that particular subject.

709

00:39:22,740 --> 00:39:26,490

But yeah, we are, but that's okay.

Yeah, yeah, we I agree we are.

710

00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:29,880

We totally are. It's a big hologram.

But anyway,

711

00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:33,180

and that's another thing about

companies say as well. Right.

712

00:39:33,390 --> 00:39:37,770

Or people say as well candidates say

people like companies say, well,

713

00:39:37,770 --> 00:39:41,100

there aren't any good candidates or

there isn't this or there is not

714

00:39:41,100 --> 00:39:44,580

that. And it's like, that's not true.

It's absolutely not true.

715

00:39:44,580 --> 00:39:48,870

Like you. Where is that based on?

Right. That's not a true belief.

716

00:39:48,870 --> 00:39:52,200

Like we can't find people like

people said to me about indeed,

717

00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:54,450

indeed does not work.

And I'm like, okay, well,

718

00:39:54,450 --> 00:39:58,530

I have used indeed for 20 years.

I'm going to tell you it's the

719

00:39:58,530 --> 00:40:02,850

most effective job search place.

I've used every job search,

720

00:40:02,850 --> 00:40:06,280

and none of them are as good as

indeed it is the best one. It's a.

721

00:40:06,850 --> 00:40:10,600

Pity. That you know how to use.

Yeah, you know. How to use it.

722

00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:13,810

Anyway, I get the same stuff

when it comes to marketing.

723

00:40:13,810 --> 00:40:16,900

Oh, I know they say LinkedIn

doesn't work or, you know,

724

00:40:16,900 --> 00:40:20,530

this doesn't work or whatever.

It's like, well, there's a, you know,

725

00:40:20,530 --> 00:40:24,820

bus inside of buses. They still work, and you know,

726

00:40:24,820 --> 00:40:28,360

those little posters at the bus stop,

they were and I was, you know, direct

727

00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:32,560

mail, actually, I just had,

I just recorded a episode with a CEO

728

00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:36,820

of a direct mail company. It works.

He's got clients that are, you know,

729

00:40:36,820 --> 00:40:41,500

have high ROI on their direct mail.

It's, it's just a matter of.

730

00:40:41,500 --> 00:40:45,160

Are you equipped to utilize the

tool really well?

731

00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:47,290

And that's why you hire experts,

right? That's why I hire you.

732

00:40:47,290 --> 00:40:49,210

That's why people hire you.

Because that's what you.

733

00:40:49,630 --> 00:40:53,140

You're an expert is. That's why.

That's why people hire us.

734

00:40:53,140 --> 00:40:56,200

Because it's like, why would you do

this? Why would you do this yourself?

735

00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:59,980

Why would you? Just.

Because our bottle is less half

736

00:40:59,980 --> 00:41:03,280

the price is the contingent model.

So it's like you're getting better.

737

00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:07,390

I mean, you get better quality. Yeah.

Their service and it costs less

738

00:41:07,390 --> 00:41:09,400

money.

It's kind of like a no brainer to me.

739

00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:13,300

Like, I mean, why wouldn't you just

utilize an external recruiting model?

740

00:41:13,300 --> 00:41:19,120

Because, yeah, it's so much work.

Like we our clients don't know

741

00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:21,430

the other side of it,

but is like herding cats.

742

00:41:21,430 --> 00:41:24,400

Yeah, yeah, I would never I.

Would never know.

743

00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:27,640

If you do believe me, I, I couldn't

I wouldn't stand it for a day.

744

00:41:28,150 --> 00:41:30,430

That's what people say to me.

Like so true.

745

00:41:30,430 --> 00:41:32,920

It takes a certain type of

person to be able to do that.

746

00:41:33,430 --> 00:41:35,980

Yeah. And it's not just skill.

It's not just.

747

00:41:37,270 --> 00:41:40,000

You know, I think it is.

There is an intuitive like the

748

00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:45,430

best recruiters that I know.

We're very intuitive. We and aware.

749

00:41:45,700 --> 00:41:48,310

You know, you have all these all

these attributes that we were

750

00:41:48,310 --> 00:41:50,290

talking about before.

They just come naturally.

751

00:41:50,290 --> 00:41:55,390

So you're able to then, you know,

box them up and teach to your client.

752

00:41:55,390 --> 00:41:57,790

You know, how these are the

things that you need and these

753

00:41:57,790 --> 00:42:00,610

this is what it looks like. Yeah.

And something you said that was

754

00:42:00,610 --> 00:42:04,300

very interesting as well as you,

you said something about that

755

00:42:04,300 --> 00:42:07,540

when we're having those

conversations or when anyone is,

756

00:42:07,540 --> 00:42:12,370

we know what we want to hear.

As far as like from a responsibility

757

00:42:12,370 --> 00:42:14,440

piece, that accountability piece

of motivation piece.

758

00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:18,730

So like it falls into that.

So those questioning if there is

759

00:42:18,730 --> 00:42:22,330

a specific side like it's not

just the words they use,

760

00:42:22,330 --> 00:42:25,450

it's the nuances of it.

Like we do zoom interviews with

761

00:42:25,450 --> 00:42:28,570

everyone we and we like watch.

Are they on time?

762

00:42:28,900 --> 00:42:31,310

Do they ask questions?

How do they dress for it?

763

00:42:31,310 --> 00:42:35,150

I mean, little nuances.

We ask them to do things for us,

764

00:42:35,150 --> 00:42:37,550

like fixed resumes.

And because we don't do anything for

765

00:42:37,550 --> 00:42:42,080

anyone because like, we don't want

to, we are fact based and we ask

766

00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:46,400

people to do those things, and that's

their choice because we're adults.

767

00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:48,800

And so I'm like, this is your choice.

Like, that's right.

768

00:42:49,010 --> 00:42:53,090

And it shows you we've seen it

time and time again.

769

00:42:53,090 --> 00:42:58,070

candidates who are not defensive.

We ask a lot of questions and clients

770

00:42:58,070 --> 00:43:00,200

can ask, why are you asking us?

Why are you asking me these

771

00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:02,210

questions?

Like, they get annoyed and you're

772

00:43:02,210 --> 00:43:05,360

like, I've been there.

You know what I mean?

773

00:43:06,230 --> 00:43:10,280

I mean, it's just. And it works.

It really works because we've

774

00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:15,590

had so much success and and it's

been fun to do because it's not

775

00:43:15,590 --> 00:43:18,890

transactional the way I would.

I would assume you get some

776

00:43:18,890 --> 00:43:21,980

people that come through and it's

just a joy to interview them.

777

00:43:21,980 --> 00:43:26,090

It's a joy to like, you know, bring

them through the process because

778

00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:30,260

they're going to be an amazing fit

because that type of person is has

779

00:43:30,260 --> 00:43:33,380

a purpose that they're after, and

they are looking for that connection

780

00:43:33,380 --> 00:43:36,530

and alignment with the company.

That's that's got to be fun.

781

00:43:36,530 --> 00:43:39,080

It is fun.

It's and it's it's fun because

782

00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:41,570

we change people's lives,

you know, we change people's

783

00:43:41,570 --> 00:43:43,490

lives from a candidate side,

and we change those lives from our

784

00:43:43,490 --> 00:43:47,780

client side because we work a lot of

smaller businesses who have less

785

00:43:47,780 --> 00:43:51,320

than 50 people, and so they don't

really have an internal HR group,

786

00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:53,900

and they don't have the ability

to go spend the money from an

787

00:43:53,900 --> 00:43:57,500

external model because it's pretty.

It can be very expensive.

788

00:43:57,800 --> 00:43:59,240

The contingent model. Yeah,

789

00:43:59,240 --> 00:44:02,240

and there's a lot of risk as well.

And so, you know,

790

00:44:02,240 --> 00:44:03,710

we change people's lives.

You know, we have candidate

791

00:44:03,710 --> 00:44:05,420

clients that calls and, like,

you changed our lives.

792

00:44:05,420 --> 00:44:08,930

Like, I can sleep at night, you know,

I'm not like, that's true. I mean.

793

00:44:09,860 --> 00:44:14,330

Yeah, it's it's it's the biggest,

you know, thing in people's lives is

794

00:44:14,330 --> 00:44:17,240

how they're going to make a living.

Biggest things in companies lives,

795

00:44:17,240 --> 00:44:18,470

how they're going to recruit

good people.

796

00:44:18,470 --> 00:44:22,670

So, yeah, I, I would believe you

are changing lives are thanks.

797

00:44:22,670 --> 00:44:26,690

You know, and it's we I mean again

like it's whatever you want to create

798

00:44:26,690 --> 00:44:29,360

for your business like creating.

And I'm sure you're the same.

799

00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:31,310

I'm sure you've created a

business that's more fun and

800

00:44:31,310 --> 00:44:33,500

like collaborative.

And there's connection.

801

00:44:33,500 --> 00:44:36,110

You guys make fun of each other.

There's like a sarcasm.

802

00:44:36,110 --> 00:44:38,810

And we're the same.

Like we have created a business

803

00:44:38,810 --> 00:44:42,800

that we actually enjoy.

Like like each other, you know,

804

00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:44,870

like we actually have fun with

each other. Like it's that's.

805

00:44:44,870 --> 00:44:47,270

Good because you're demonstrating

what it should look like to your

806

00:44:47,270 --> 00:44:50,330

client, you know? Yeah.

Saying one thing and doing another.

807

00:44:50,330 --> 00:44:53,120

Yeah. For sure.

So anyway, that was my rant.

808

00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:54,180

I like it.

Well,

809

00:44:54,180 --> 00:44:57,000

it's a lot of really good insights.

I think a lot of value here.

810

00:44:57,120 --> 00:45:00,510, as we're wrapping up, what if

I want to send people your way?

811

00:45:00,570 --> 00:45:03,660

If people want to get connected with

you, how can they find you?

812

00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:07,260

I'm all over LinkedIn.

You can go to my website,

813

00:45:07,260 --> 00:45:10,740

cherry talent group.com.

There's a submission form.

814

00:45:11,220 --> 00:45:15,720, you know, the website's pretty.

We explain a lot of what we do

815

00:45:15,720 --> 00:45:17,610

on the website.

I want it to be very transparent.

816

00:45:17,610 --> 00:45:20,010

If you go on my LinkedIn page,

it's pretty transparent with what

817

00:45:20,010 --> 00:45:24,180

we do, we're very up front.

So if you decide that you're

818

00:45:24,180 --> 00:45:27,390

interested and want to look into it,

we're very upfront about costs

819

00:45:27,390 --> 00:45:32,250

and like how what the process is

and and it really works.

820

00:45:32,250 --> 00:45:36,900

I mean, we've had so much success and

really it's just been because we

821

00:45:36,900 --> 00:45:39,210

I had someone say to me recently,

they're like,

822

00:45:39,210 --> 00:45:41,970

I watch all your podcasts and I'm

listening to it and I'm like, well,

823

00:45:41,970 --> 00:45:45,450

this is how it's supposed to be done.

And I'm like, exactly. Yes.

824

00:45:45,660 --> 00:45:48,420

Yeah, that's great. Yeah.

So I love that.

825

00:45:48,420 --> 00:45:51,990

That's such great feedback.

Thank you. All right.

826

00:45:51,990 --> 00:45:54,660

Well hey, this has been amazing.

Like I thought it would be.

827

00:45:54,810 --> 00:45:59,220, so thank you for all the value.

And, we'll have to have you

828

00:45:59,220 --> 00:46:02,370

back at some point in the future.

Yeah. For sure. This was really fun.

829

00:46:02,370 --> 00:46:04,140

I really loved. It.

Okay, well,

830

00:46:04,140 --> 00:46:05,850