The Wild Emotional Rollercoaster That is Running a Company with Founder & CEO Tiffany Houser at Evolve
In this episode of Exploring Growth, host Lee Murray sits down with Tiffany Hauser, founder and CEO of Evolve, to discuss the emotional challenges of leadership. They dive into topics like imposter syndrome, self-awareness, and personal transformation. She shares strategies for overcoming self-sabotage and fostering a supportive team culture. Together, they explore how vulnerability, reflection, and resilience are essential for navigating the complexities of leadership.
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Tiffany Houser
00:00:00
If any of the listeners are unfamiliar with what it feels like to to feel like an impostor, it's all that I'm not enoughness. I'm not good enough. I'm not smart enough, I'm not senior enough. I'm not experienced enough. I, I wasn't in this industry long enough. All those things. And really, the reality of the imposter is only you can do that to yourself. No one else can do that to you. I mean, sure, they can give you feedback. Well, we're looking for X amount of experience, but wait until you get that feedback, because what most people do is they do it to themselves.
Lee Murray
00:00:39
All right. Welcome back to Exploring Growth. today I have the opportunity to sit down with founder CEO Tiffany Hauser at Evolve. Tiffany is a leadership development expert and executive coach working with founders and CEOs on personal transformation. And today, we're going to talk about the personal growth side of building a company Specifically imposter syndrome. Self-awareness knowing yourself to put the right people around you.
Lee Murray
00:01:06
I'm super excited about this conversation. Tiffany. Welcome to the show.
Tiffany Houser
00:01:10
Thank you, Lee, and thank you to everyone who's listening.
Lee Murray
00:01:14
Yeah, I mean, this topic is one that hits very close to home for me personally. every day can be a roller coaster. I hate to admit it. I'd like to think that I have a better handle on it. And sometimes I come to the realization that I just really don't. you know, it depends on the day. Which seat in the roller coaster. I'm set, sat in. and, you know, one day I can feel on top of the world, and the next day I feel like I'm not qualified to do anything like, let alone put a resume together. And I'm sure this is nothing new for you. so I'm curious that kind of as we start at a high level and we'll kind of work into some of these different aspects that you see working with leaders. What have you seen? You know, when you work with leaders.
Tiffany Houser
00:02:04
Yeah, it's it's interesting. I love that that term roller coaster because for me, I love a roller coaster. and that version of me that's younger because just I think it was two years ago. We went to a, like, an amusement park, and the roller coaster was like, oh my gosh, that was terrifying. And so, you know, and it's the same thing. So for some people, it can be thrilling for other people as it can be terrifying and other people's just other people just completely opt out. It's not even an option. Yeah. And so when we think about the journey that we're on as leaders or founders, it is a roller coaster. There are highs, there are lows, there are twists, there are turns. There's everything in between. And there is a start and a finish. we tend not to think about the finish too often. and for some, some of the entrepreneurial folks. You might feel like you're you're still in the the beginning of it all as well.
Tiffany Houser
00:03:02
But yeah, there is an evolution of it all as well, which is, you know, the purpose of calling the company my company evolve is that, you know, just as you explain, like sometimes you're on top of the world, the other times you're not feeling like you could even put together a resume. It depends where we are in the journey, and really we support leaders with recognizing where they are currently in their journey, where they want to go next. Because sometimes leaders tend to think about the final destination or the final, you know, piece of the puzzle. And we're like, what? What piece goes next? and the reason we approach it that way is so it doesn't feel overwhelming. So we don't feel doubtful, insecure, overwhelmed, whatever Insecurity Désir pops up in the moment, so that we can manage our self, regulate ourself and really activate that self-awareness to its highest level, where we can be neutral. We can think critically and we can actually solve, we can innovate, we can move whatever it is forward.
Tiffany Houser
00:04:11
So yeah, I love that that roller coaster term as well, especially as we both are here in Florida. And we have a big amusement park here.
Tiffany Houser
00:04:19
Yeah.
Lee Murray
00:04:20
Yeah. No, it definitely feels like that. And it doesn't feel like a roller coaster that is going to securely stay on the tracks. It feels like kind of like one of those old wooden roller coaster that you ride and you think, is this thing actually secure? What other kind of regulations do they have on this thing? You know, it's like you're going over a hill fast and there's there's no track. you know, it's been put in many ways, but I, you know, the the reality of owning and running a company and managing a team and trying to grow is that there's just a lot of pressure. the pressure is real. I mean, this is the hardest thing that I've done in my life. you know, I mean, running a company, it the stakes are very high and the stakes are very real.
Lee Murray
00:05:10
And when you have the weight of all of that on you, especially when you lay your head down at night and somehow the devil creeps in and starts to to make you think, you know, all of these things are going to go wrong and, you know, it starts to get wonky. it's really difficult to keep the mindset that you're describing, you know, this sort of balanced, maybe a, you know, objective or level headedness. It's really difficult to keep that when you are trying to keep your team employed because they're great people. They they do great things, but the revenue is slumped. Or, you know, you're trying to grow to that next level and you're not sure if you have the capability of Becoming the CEO of the company. When you've been handling some of the more tactical type of things. let's talk about mindset. I mean, this this idea of just being tossed to and fro from feeling like we're going to accomplish a lot of things and we're nothing's going to stop us to.
Lee Murray
00:06:12
I'm a horrible human being.
Tiffany Houser
00:06:15
Yeah. And I love, you know, when we use the word mindset because sometimes people call it their belief system or their thoughts. And really, I love the term mindset because of the the second part of it set. And really we can set it, reset it, shift it at any moment. And this is the biggest area we work on with leaders and founders is your mindset. Because our philosophy is and a lot of transformational coaches and strategists will will tell you this. You could have the best strategies, the most talented, talented people. You could have all the funds in the world. Yet if your mind or your energy or your focus is is in a detrimental space, those strategies that talent, those resources aren't going to get you as far as they could or they might. Yet you and your team are going to feel that pain, that burn if your energy is focused on, you know, one of the areas we call detrimental energy is scarcity. And that scarcity does fuel a lot of people's insecurities.
Tiffany Houser
00:07:28
And scarcity is we don't have enough. There's not enough. It's impossible. We're figuring out all the ways we can't. We don't. It's not going to happen. Rather than and it's really simple in our work, we we always say take a step left. And it's figuratively, but if we're working in person, we will have you get up and literally take a step to the left. And really, because what's in front of you right now, if that's how you're looking at it, that's fine. There's nothing wrong or bad. Yet if you literally, figuratively, figuratively take a step to the left, you're in a new moment. There's a new space. That energy only follows you if you bring it with your mind and your attention and your energy. And so, yes, it can be incredibly. It is it. We both know it is incredibly challenging to be an entrepreneur, to be a high level senior executive in an enterprise company. And it's it's really because the visibility is high and the responsibility is high.
Tiffany Houser
00:08:27
It's just those two factors, nothing else. You got high visibility and you have high responsibility. And that's when these insecurities, such as feeling like an imposter, feeling as if you're, you know, and if if any of the listeners are unfamiliar with what it feels like to to feel like an imposter, it's all the I'm not enoughness. I'm not good enough. I'm not smart enough, I'm not senior enough. I'm not experienced enough. I, I wasn't in this industry long enough. All those things. And really, the reality of the imposter is only you can do that to yourself. No one else can do that to you. I mean, sure, they can give you feedback. Well, we're looking for X amount of experience, but wait until you get that feedback. Because what most people do is they do it to themselves. They derail. So when you said the roller coaster can feel like you're not, you know, it's not sturdy or on the track. We're derailing ourselves way more often than any of the actual feedback we receive, you know, could set us in a different direction.
Tiffany Houser
00:09:36
And so it's important for us to remember the mindset piece of it is all about where your energy, your attention and your focus is in the moment, In the moment, because that set part you could reset, take a step to the left. And and it's really that simple. You can be in a new state of mind. Yet most of us are not conditioned to do that, and most of us don't believe that is possible. So that's when we can. That's when we take a deeper dive into your belief system, which we won't get into right now. and we don't go there right away with our clients getting deep into your belief system. But, you know, we give you the higher level pieces first before we peel back another layer to go deeper with it.
Lee Murray
00:10:23
Well, yeah, I mean, I've experienced all of that many, many times personally, and I can think of one just recently where we are working on, kind of our positioning, maybe, you know, strategy of how we're going to market, with our message and, you know, when you start working on that kind of thing, it it really you have to dig down to the core of who are you as a company? And since I have a small company, it's who are who am I, right? It's really kind of all very much intertwined and, you know, read, rebuilding the website and doing some things that are very visible, that are going to show that we've done this work internally, internally in the company, but internally with within ourselves.
Lee Murray
00:11:09
Yeah. We're putting ourselves back out there. and you feel like I felt on top of the world, because we had reimagined who we are, you know, not not it's not it's not like black and white, but but we've revised it, and we feel like we're more in control of our destiny. And literally an hour later, I'm looking around at other companies and I find a company that's very similar, doing something very similar to what we're doing, but they have just knocked it out of the park. And that comparison is sort of what I'm drawing from. What you're saying deflated me and I went from. We were more in control of our destiny. I think we're going to win more deals. Things are going the right way to what are we even doing? We cannot get this right. Like these people are killing it. Now to your point about taking a step left, I was able to catch myself and like kind of detach from what I was doing and say, okay, wait, you just had this this moment of progress, this moment of growth that is meaningful.
Lee Murray
00:12:14
And I've had many of these in the past that brought me here. And yes, okay, maybe there is another company out there that's doing it better. Maybe they've they've found what it is that they have to do that similar quicker or you know, earlier and they've had more time to work on it. But let's, let's take a step back and look at what they're doing. Okay. Let's analyze it objectively. And when I after about 15, 20 minutes, I realized that, yes, they're doing all of these things very well, But we're not really competitors because the market that they're going after, even though the services they're offering and the, you know, the offering and the products are the same, who they're going after is slightly different and different enough that it doesn't really affect us at all. In fact, all we can do is learn from what they've done that's visible and adapt what we're doing. So so it makes us better, quicker, and we can continue on with that momentum. But if I hadn't stepped back from that, I could have just said, you know, what am I doing? Like what? All these good efforts just go to crap.
Tiffany Houser
00:13:17
Yeah. And as a coach, if if I was working with you right now, my first question would be, what if they were doing exactly what you were doing and serving exactly who you were serving? What gets.
Tiffany Houser
00:13:32
To happen?
Lee Murray
00:13:32
That's a that's a harder question. Yeah.
Tiffany Houser
00:13:34
For sure.
Tiffany Houser
00:13:35
And and really that's that's the question because yeah, what is going on is the ego which we're getting a little technical into my work. The ego is the side of us that is, you know, our identity. It's back here in our our brainstem and really it is there to protect us. Yet over our life, over the course of our journey, it starts to over protect us and over protect us and over protect us. Where? Thank you for the protection. Yet I don't need to be over protected anymore. Yeah. And so then that's when we bring in the emotional intelligence piece of it all to bring you or me and Lee everything you're describing. I have these moments all the time.
Lee Murray
00:14:20
I mean, I have to.
Tiffany Houser
00:14:21
Imagine everyone.
Tiffany Houser
00:14:22
Make me laugh now.
Tiffany Houser
00:14:23
Right? Yeah. Here we go.
Tiffany Houser
00:14:24
Again. And so the the the benefit, we'll say of emotional intelligence is being able to neutralize whatever we're in, recognizing the emotion, like, oh, I feel the imposter. Oh my gosh, I'm angry or upset or worried that somebody out there doing the same thing, yet your ego is, is making up the story that they're doing it better than you. That's your ego first to protect you from not going big, not taking a risk. Not really. You know, being consistent and following all the way through. That's your ego doing that. Now, when you step back into that, how did you say it? You didn't say vision, but you. I think it started.
Tiffany Houser
00:15:09
With its momentum.
Tiffany Houser
00:15:10
Did your destiny. Yeah. And you're like, we know what we're up to. And that your ego, when it saw that other website, it it shifted you back center because it wants you to stay safe.
Tiffany Houser
00:15:22
It wants you to play smart, want you to stay exactly where you are because it doesn't know what is out there waiting for you. It doesn't know what 2 or 3 x thing or four x thing the business looks like yet. So don't want to learn, don't want to adventure.
Tiffany Houser
00:15:36
It's uncomfortable. It's unknown.
Tiffany Houser
00:15:38
Yeah I want to stay right here. And so that's, you know, I said emotional intelligence, but that also when you marry emotional intelligence with growth mindset, man, you are able to check your awareness pops in right away. Oh I see I want to get like nervous right now because I just found a competitor. When we know from marketing classes and branding back in the day, it's you need a competitor out there. Somebody else needs to be doing it to validate that. A there's that issue or challenge you're dealing with is real, and there is a solution. There are solutions out here. And so when you're able to marry that emotional intelligence with your growth mindset, your resilience kicks in, the neutrality kicks in.
Tiffany Houser
00:16:31
And then really I, I call it your agility. Your agility. Oh okay. You bounce back quicker instead of having that whole 20 minutes spend on the comparison because it it it is not fruitful to ignore it like, oh man, darn there's somebody else doing that. And then rather than falling into the trap of oh boy, well scrap that. We got to think of something new because somebody start over.
Tiffany Houser
00:17:01
Yeah.
Tiffany Houser
00:17:02
Just by the way, Lee, I've done that before. I've done that like scrap something amazing because I saw a website, I saw somebody doing it and just scrapped it. Re brought it, brought it back and it's such a great product now. But I did that. So yeah. So it's just really noticing okay I feel this way. Don't discount it or try to you know some leaders think oh I got to suppress it ignore it. I don't really feel that way because the more we push that stuff down, it grows into something bigger later. Maybe not in the moment.
Tiffany Houser
00:17:34
And then now debrief. Work yourself through your awareness to regulate back into that space of this is our destiny. We we know what we're up to. Great. We found somebody in the same market. We and like you said, we learned we saw you might have gotten a couple of ideas. And then ultimately you discover that a little bit different. I can see how we're different or how we differentiate from each other. Boom, there you go. And that happened for a reason that you found that website.
Lee Murray
00:18:05
Well, I can tell you. And you mentioned it, is that it validated what we're doing, because what we're doing is, from what I can tell, somewhat different than what all the other service provider vendors are offering, it's a little bit more strategic. And that's our unique, unique advantage in the market. But it validated the fact that, oh, there is one other person, at least, that I've found that's doing it in a similar way that we're doing it, which is makes me actually made me happy.
Lee Murray
00:18:33
I was having that conversation with a colleague of mine because we, I was kind of going through this whole train of thought of like, you know, what is this all worth? And and it came to me that exact that rationalization of, oh, wait, this is good because it validates that there's a market assuming that they're doing as good as they say they're doing. There's a market for the way that we're presenting ourselves to our audience. so it it empowered me. And in fact, the more I went back to it, I found that they weren't doing the they did not have the core product offering that we have. So it actually looks like a potential buyer for us in the future because we actually since we're so aligned, it could be a strategic, you know, partnership down in the future. So instead of, you know, it's almost like what I'm taking from what you're saying is like, we get hit with these irrational thoughts and we have to step back and look at it rationally. We have to look at it, you know, in in reality.
Tiffany Houser
00:19:35
Yep. And it's interesting because the roller coaster just popped back into my mind and it's going up the hill. You know how slow you go up that first hill of our traditional roller coasters. And that's when either your ego or in our work we call trust and self-worth kick in. Your ego is going to be like, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God. Look at this. Focusing on all the all the detrimental aspects or your trust in your self work worth will take you up with staying the course like great. I already know this is going to dip. It's going to be exciting or thrilling. Or it may be terrifying, but I, I know, I trust this journey. I trust you know, the path that I'm on and really the, the, the invitation I have right now for the, the listeners and if anyone's watching is just think of the story that both Lee and I shared, and I invite you to just think about if you've ever done that notice, go back and debrief that now on your own.
Tiffany Houser
00:20:36
And the debrief questions we use, like the basic ones we use with our client, is what's working about what I'm up to. Like what's working about this. And then that fun second question is what's not working? So and not about your strategy or your, you know, your product or your service, about how you are showing up, the way you feel what's working right now. Okay, cool. I'm doing research. I'm looking into what what we're up to. What's not working is I'm oh, the comparison, piece is popping up for me, and I'm now starting to think, let's throw this all away or I'm going to sabotage it in some way. And then the next piece is what might be missing. So is anything missing right now? Okay. Some trust, maybe some support. Requesting support or maybe taking a walk might be missing. Maybe just let's shut the computer off for a second. Go somewhere, come back. And then the final question is what's next? What next or what now? So that you could choose to stay panicked or discouraged about whatever it is you're up to or into.
Tiffany Houser
00:21:40
Or you can choose to step left into what now? Okay, great. This this company exists. What now? And really now you have some actuals to work with rather than your ego. Your ego is filled with assumptions, by the way. It's a story making machine. And again, that machine is there to protect you. Yet in all of our cases, not most, all of our cases are. Ego is over. Protecting us wants to keep us where we are. And the more you're able to notice that, navigate through it and really understand. And in the deeper work we do, we support leaders and founders with understanding. Where did this come from? Where did that comparison piece come from? What was it? Was it when I was in sports? Was it my first job. Did our boss, like, pit us against each other? Or, you know, we could peel back a couple different layers there, because when we find where that came from, and then you work to reconcile that or reframe that, now you're like, oh, okay.
Tiffany Houser
00:22:48
You're agility kicks in. Your resilience, your trust, all of that because you realize, oh, that story started back when I was interviewing for companies, and when I used to sit in the waiting room, I'd see people and think they were better than me, and then I wouldn't get the job and I'd validate or I'd make that story true. Sure. And all of that stuff is an assumption. You have no idea. And I work with a lot of people that are looking, you know, to uplevel their careers. So they're on interviews and they make up so many stories about why they didn't get the job or why what had them get called back on the final. And it's so funny because one of the exercises I have them go through is get the actual find out, because your assumption is most likely driven by your, ego and your ego. If your ego gets the actual, then it calms down. And when your ego gets disproven with the real data, it calms down, because that's what we're doing.
Tiffany Houser
00:23:48
We're looking to regulate the what you said, the irrationality. We want to we want to regulate that. So we aren't, you know, feeling like the seatbelts coming off in the roller coaster or the harnesses. Yeah. And the screws of the harness are wiggling off. So. Yeah. So that that brought me back to our roller.
Tiffany Houser
00:24:09
Coaster I.
Lee Murray
00:24:10
Like that. Yeah. And I like to get the actual because, you know, been taught in sales in many years past where if you don't get the sale, it's going back to that prospect and asking them if they'll tell you, why didn't you get the sale? why did you buy from this other company and try to try to get some proof to why? Actually why. And a lot of times they'll be honest to, to a large degree and tell you why. Because they've already bought and there's no pressure. And that helps to make you a better salesperson.
Tiffany Houser
00:24:38
I love that, I love that.
Lee Murray
00:24:40
But I think going back to your framework of the three questions, I love the framework, and I love the third question because it's actionable.
Lee Murray
00:24:47
What next? And it's powerful because you in order to take an action of the next step, you have to almost go back to the first two questions. You almost have to go back to answer those before you can say what's next, because you have no nothing to validate what is next?
Tiffany Houser
00:25:08
Yep. And it goes back to the mindset piece. When you ask me that question. In the beginning, we could have the best tools, the best strategies, all the resources. But if our mind is still in the same detrimental space, our energy, we're not going to generate the result as fast or as quality as we want. And the same there. If we just try something different or try something new without really unpacking and processing the data, we might fall back into that trap. And really, that's another thing we coach around is really slowing things down every once in a while. We're so used to like go, go, go, new data, new project, new deliverable, or pipeline isn't where we need it to be.
Tiffany Houser
00:25:52
Revenue isn't where we need it to be. So let's do more, do more, do more, and really great do more. Yet are you doing it with the same mindset, the same strategies, or the same approach? Or are you really working from new data? Debriefed data? Yeah. To move things forward in a different direction, in a strategic way, rather than outputting all this energy and effort that keeps giving you that same result?
Lee Murray
00:26:22
Yeah, the getting the actual the debrief data piece, I think that's a huge value to people listening, working with teams, you know, getting more transparent with what is happening, what's what do we feel like is going wrong objectively? but, you know, going back to the mindset thing again, because you brought it up again is, it reminded me when you were saying that I think a lot of times, you know, company, owners can, can or even team leaders can say, I don't have enough. You know, if I had this then.
Lee Murray
00:26:54
And yes, you're right, the mindset, kind of dictates in, in a negative way. But the opposite is true as well, because a lot of times when people get into starting a company, their mindset is maybe even overinflated, to, to, to a negative degree. But it's set right because they're saying, I don't have what I need, but I'm still going to do X. And it's it's like I think along the way some where we get beat down so many times that, you know, even though you have made a lot of progress with that mindset, you start to lose it or it starts to degrade, or erode over time. And you start to think that. And again, I think the comparison thing comes in, you are aware of your what you're doing way more the risk is more real. All of that. but you start to change into this mindset of scarcity versus I don't really you know, we don't really need, this to move forward. There's a there's a quote, I don't know if it's a, stoic stoicism quote, but it was talking about, like, basically you have everything you need to succeed, kind of along the lines of, like, the path will appear as you walk a walk along it.
Lee Murray
00:28:10
and it's so true if your mind is set right. These are the days that were on the mountaintop. Then you can do anything. It doesn't matter what you have or don't have. but if your mindset is not set right, then no matter what you have, it's not going to be enough.
Tiffany Houser
00:28:25
Yeah. And there's so much there. There's so much there that I want to address and talk about. Yet the quote that you shared reminds me of what transformation is all about. You know, and we work with companies that are into digital transformation, people transformation, all the transformation. Yet when we look at our own personal transformation as a leader, as a founder, we wherever our energy and focus is, whatever it's on is what we're going to generate. It's what we're collecting evidence on. So one of the most powerful questions I ask one of my clients, when we're in a space of, okay, you might be falling into the scarcity trap or the limited belief trap is what if? So, if we say we don't have resources, we're limited.
Tiffany Houser
00:29:20
Okay, what if you did have the resources? What if you had abundance? What if there was all all the tools? You know, all the things in place? What? What would happen now or what would happen next? Because if we keep staying and keeping our energy in the the impossibility, the limitation of it all, we're just going to be in that small bubble of limitation and possibility. And so that's why coaching is so incredible. And you don't need to hire a coach to receive coaching. You can simply ask anybody to ask you. They're called evoking questions. But it's wonderful and not asking open ended yes or no questions, but evoking questions where you get to slow down, think, think critically. Because here's another question or another answer that people will say. And this is when I know they're not thinking critically. And again, there's nothing wrong or bad or not about not thinking critically, but in my experience and research shows, you will not find the new way or the way that's going to work for you.
Tiffany Houser
00:30:28
Until you think critically, you slow down and unpack and process it all. So when we hear when I say, well, what if you know, what if you did know, what if you did have. And if people say, I don't know. That tells a lot about where their energy is and where their mindset is. And that's okay. But the next question is, what if you did know? Or if you did know, what might the answer be? Or, you know, let's just say I know someone in their industry. I know somebody who's in a similar space. Well, what would XYZ do? What would that person do? I don't if it's still I don't what do you think they might do? Because my role as a coach is to bring you out of the detriment, out of the scarcity, out of the limitation, so you can get back up into neutral first. Yeah. And then ultimately up into the real innovative, creative, problem solving, critical thinking space that can move you forward.
Tiffany Houser
00:31:33
I'm all about progress. I want to move you forward. And if you're a business owner or running a business, I don't doubt or I know that you want to move things forward. And really, we behind the scenes, we call it stinking thinking. And I'm sure you've heard that before. That is that's really strong for a lot of people. They're used to the stinking thinking, and it's not coming from their business journey. It's coming from the way they were raised, the things that happened over the course of their life, that they decided to collect that evidence over the different set of evidence. And it's really shocking because transformation, you know, the research shows it takes about 90 days to change a habit or change a belief change an actual pattern around thinking. And so when we think about the doing, oh, we did this, it didn't work. Forget it. I know that didn't take you 90 days to make that. You got to try that again and again. And they also the research also says, I think you need to try something at least 20 times.
Tiffany Houser
00:32:37
And I know a lot of my entrepreneurs or even my salespeople that are listening right now. You're like 20 times I can't receive 20 no's from the same person. Listen, the ask any of the top salespeople you know a no is a wonderful thing. I'll take a note any day over being ghost, being told, oh, send me an email, send me the details. It's like, okay. And so where are we going with that? And so I love also that you brought in the the sales process as well, because sales is all about running a business and building the relationship and also understanding, okay, that didn't work. Where do I get to go? Not what do I get to do, but where do I get to go next? What worked about it? What didn't work? Was anything missing? And now what's next? Rather than thinking, oh, they don't want it or they're they don't have the budget or it's not a right fit. Their timing. That could be the answer.
Tiffany Houser
00:33:36
Yet the the more we are committed to digging a little further, doing that, slowing things down to dig further. That's where the gold is. And, you know, we even have when people tell us to send them, you know, information or let's follow up in a month, we have a survey we send out to to grab that critical information. It's literally three. It's not like 20 questions, but we want to know. And we even asked them before finishing the call. I would love to learn from this, this conversation. Are you open to this this survey just so we can learn? And I would say about 60% of people fill it out and we learn So much because one of the questions we put on there is, on a scale of 0 to 10, what is your what is the possibility of us working together? So we walk away with like semi information and we think, oh my God it's going to be. Yeah. And they have no interest in working with us or we walk away with.
Tiffany Houser
00:34:36
Oh yeah.
Tiffany Houser
00:34:37
Send me the information. And we're like that didn't work. Like they didn't want to by today. And yeah. So it's I, I love the, the sales example as well.
Lee Murray
00:34:48
You know as we're talking through all of this, the, the central sort of topic that comes to mind that I think for me, can a lot of times tie a lot of this together is, you know, we've all heard that it's lonely at the top. That is real. And, the higher you are, the more lonely you get. the more the pressure becomes. More responsibilities are there, for everything below you. And, so I'm, I'm curious to hear from you about loneliness or this state of being alone as a leader, making decisions, the pressure that's there. because I'm I'm, you know, that's what I'm thinking about, sort of the undercurrent of all of this, like.
Tiffany Houser
00:35:35
Yeah.
Lee Murray
00:35:35
For me to have the right mindset, it takes a lot of willpower and practice for me to be able to pull myself out of this sort of irrational irrationality when it comes and put myself back in, you know, decision making, kind of seat.
Lee Murray
00:35:54
and I have to imagine that. Well, I don't have to imagine, you know, this. It's it's real. You have maybe the right people around you that have been given the right, authority or permission to speak into this right here or or if you or if they haven't, it's a different, different thing. Or if you don't have the right people around you. how much does that play into? I mean, first, it's the idea of being lonely at the top, but then second, it's who who do you have around you, and what does that cause you to go? Which direction?
Tiffany Houser
00:36:28
Yeah. And and both. Yeah. They are definitely related. And I have two quick stories about two different clients. And really the first client, she was promoted to the global leadership team, of her fortune 500 company. And she took over the role of the person that was promoted up to the executive. I mean, that's how many people are my global executive. And so she was doing one of her first presentations to the executive leadership team and her, is it predecessor, the person who you take over for the successor? Something like she.
Lee Murray
00:37:09
Would be the successor. Yeah.
Tiffany Houser
00:37:11
And yeah. Sorry.
Tiffany Houser
00:37:12
Her former boss. Yeah. so he asked her a question, and really, she didn't have the answer, and she decided in that moment, her ego decided I am not smart enough. I don't deserve a seat at this table. Oh, my gosh, I look stupid. Rather than asking him a question back, a clarifying question. Well, what exactly about this would you like to know about? And then really getting clear on? Because sometimes someone asks us a question, we think we don't have the answer yet. Are we both clear on what the question is? Because sometimes we hear a question differently than what it's presented, or we ask a question differently than what we really are looking for. And so the coaching I gave her was you. You're not going to have all the answers. So that loneliness comes. Some of the loneliness comes for senior leaders is that they feel they have to have all the answers. I got to have all the answers.
Tiffany Houser
00:38:11
And so that puts me up here. And if I don't have all the answers, I fall down. And so you make you self inflict loneliness on yourself as a leader or a founder. When you do that to yourself, when you think you need to have all the right answers or all the answers in general. And the coaching I gave her around, that is to remember you are on a team. First. You are on this, this global leadership team. So if you don't have the answer, what do you think? Does anybody else in the room have any ideas around that? Because sometimes when we're in these presentations, the presenter, anyone who has a question, sometimes we get caught up in just the presenter has answers and we forget we're all sitting here as a team. We're all working on this. You know, if it's a team and there is like a vendor or someone coming in. And then second, also reminding you have a team so you are not going to be the product or knowledge expert on whatever the question, every question that's going to be asked of you.
Tiffany Houser
00:39:11
So it is very okay for you to say, that's a great question. I'm going to ask Joanne, who heads up that that, sector or whatever is going on and get the actual information because I want to make sure the numbers are accurate, or I want to make sure we got the most up to date information. So rather than stewing in your insecurity that your ego is trying to protect you from. And really, what I call that is not being honest, not being transparent, you're kind of like now you're putting on, you know, your performative I'm just going to, you know, fake it. I don't, you know, oh well and, and I know people that elaborate and start. Yeah BSing.
Tiffany Houser
00:39:48
Answers. Yeah.
Tiffany Houser
00:39:50
And so it's it's really about going reminding yourself you're on a team even as the leader, even as the founder. You are doing this with your team. And then the other example is a founder that I coach. She's, you know, her company. I think they're in series A or B and there's over 100 people in her company.
Tiffany Houser
00:40:09
And yet she before coaching with me, she would internalize everything that was going on and putting all the weight of the the fundraising, the product development, the customer, you know, the customer story, all of that. And then she's also the face of the company doing all the the PR appearances. And really so she was putting all this weight and pressure on herself because she didn't want anyone to feel bad or worried about anything. When how is your team, your leaders? How are they going to help you build and grow this company if they don't understand what all of the the things that are happening behind the scene or letting you stay up in the founder CEO seat so you're not bogged down with what's going on with accounting, what's going on with product, what's going on with marketing. Like you can't get that you. So the point is, a lot of us leaders, a lot of us founders, we do this isolation to ourself which has us feel lonely. And the truth is, if you are running, even if you were a solopreneur listening to this, you are never alone.
Tiffany Houser
00:41:18
You have people supporting you, whether it's your friends, your families, your customers, you have some sort of support team. We're never really just doing everything on our own. And you could always reach out and ask somebody, hey, can I bounce this off of you? Or, hey, we had a bad day yesterday. I would love any insights, best practices. And that takes vulnerability. It takes honesty, transparency and stop putting yourself up there on this tower of needing to have everything right. And you know, if I don't have it all right, it's weak. I'm not a good leader. I'm not a good founder. Because actually the reverse, the opposite is true. When we keep ourselves at this tower. Yet we're actually slipping down this like terrible slope we're not Doing or.
Tiffany Houser
00:42:06
Creating, not being.
Lee Murray
00:42:07
Honest with ourselves.
Tiffany Houser
00:42:08
Yeah.
Tiffany Houser
00:42:09
And there's no value being created. Right. And then I've seen that over and over again turn into toxic leadership, where now I'm going to project out all my fear and all my worries out onto you, i.e. the team.
Tiffany Houser
00:42:22
And now I'm going to grind you. I'm going to overwork you. I'm going to, you know, put these expectations in a place that is just not even unrealistic. It's just upsetting to people. So yeah. So that loneliness, most of it is self-inflicted.
Lee Murray
00:42:38
Yeah. That's that's really good. And, a couple thoughts. One is, you know, it seems like what we're needing to practice is balancing confidence with humility in these situations that we're in. Right. and I think if that is what we're practicing in those situations of working with a team, I think that the negative that is happening there, apart from it Sliding into toxicity of your ego getting over inflated because you feel like you have to have all the answers, you become the bottleneck. There's a lot of negative things. You're also not empowering your team to support you or to to to take ownership over their role and to, to, to kind of flourish into who they should be as a team to support you. So I think that that not being transparent, not being vulnerable to the degree that you need to be in those situations hurts you.
Lee Murray
00:43:36
It hurts you as a leader. and, you know, it could potentially have all the things that you think negative are going to happen, actually happen because you've created.
Tiffany Houser
00:43:47
Them.
Tiffany Houser
00:43:48
And it ripples out. So the way you show up has a high tendency for your people and your leaders to show up the same way. So I always say to my clients, in the beginning when we first meet, I'm like, I'm not surprised that your team feels or acts this way. Because that's what you're. That's where your energy, that's where your focus is right now. So if you think they're underperforming or they're not, that's coming from you. It's not coming from them. And that stings when leaders and especially founders, when they hear that at first. Yet there's a whole framework underneath that. Because what I'm doing as your coach is unearthing or rattling, if you will, your ego, like, we don't need this, we don't need this over protection, because in your over protection, you are not rippling out what you do want because you're too focused on what's not working, what who's not performing, rather than stepping left, holding them in a new space.
Tiffany Houser
00:44:48
Okay, what can what else is. But this is not working over here. What else is available? And then the great thing about stepping left, there's an infinite amount of left steps to take. Why it's step left, I don't know. But in transformation we step left. As a lefty, I dig it.
Tiffany Houser
00:45:05
But was that.
Lee Murray
00:45:06
From the Beyonce song or to the.
Tiffany Houser
00:45:08
Left?
Tiffany Houser
00:45:08
No, no, not at all. This the work that I study. It's been around for like 48 years. Transformational leadership. Yeah. It's just stepping left I don't maybe that's because forward we go this way.
Tiffany Houser
00:45:21
Yeah that's.
Lee Murray
00:45:21
Right. You got to go then.
Tiffany Houser
00:45:23
But then when I think about reading we go to the right. But that's American reading.
Tiffany Houser
00:45:27
Well so you're really detaching.
Lee Murray
00:45:28
If you go to the left.
Tiffany Houser
00:45:30
There you go Lee.
Tiffany Houser
00:45:32
So there you go.
Tiffany Houser
00:45:32
I already have you in an we're we're we're jiving in a new space I love it.
Lee Murray
00:45:38
Hey, this has been really, really good.
Lee Murray
00:45:39
And as we wrap up here, I wrote a note in, when we had met originally to to plan for this episode, and I wanted to share it and get your thoughts on it before we wrap up. And you said that everything starts with the leader being grounded in their self-worth and trusting themselves before they can extend that to their team. And I feel like that's very powerful Because of all the things we've been talking about. if you are unsure of yourself, it's going to extend to your team and they're going to become unsure of themselves. you know, the biggest bottleneck I see when I go into companies is the leader themselves. They're the ones that are standing in front of themselves and therefore in front of the company. it takes a very special person to be able to have that mix of confidence and humility and vulnerability and all of these things and constantly be putting themselves on the, you know, firing line and practicing this daily. no one has it, you know, at a from birth. you know, it's all gained over time, just growing personally.
Lee Murray
00:46:46
but yeah, I mean, I think the way you said that it was, was was very poignant.
Tiffany Houser
00:46:51
Yeah. And if we go back to the the quote, I think from stoicism, everything we want, we already have, everything we need. We already have that. That philosophy means we are. We have everything we need. So in my work, it's about peeling back and unpacking the detrimental thoughts and the detrimental mindset that has the roller coaster always feeling like unstable or like, shoot, it's this is going to be the ride where we're going to fall off. Yeah. and really, as I mentioned before, as we go up the the slow up, which is a lot of times we're usually on the slow up, the slow ride up. And so that is a choice. It is a conscious awareness choice. It is starting from the depth of your belief system. But it is up to you with that resilience and that agility in that critical thinking, to keep it up in your awareness, to choose trust, choose your self-worth.
Tiffany Houser
00:47:52
Nobody is taking or giving you your self-worth. And really, I don't think we address self-worth. But self-worth is really your innate belief in yourself, so nobody can take your value or your worth away from you except you. And really, that's self-worth is birthed. Excuse me? Trust is birthed from your self-worth. And I always say, if you interview me, writing books, all that stuff. Trust is the number one like skill or characteristic we could ever have or quality we could ever have as a leader. Because being a leader is being in relationship with. It's being in relationship with myself or self, being relationship with my people and that people. Peace. Your team, your colleagues, your customers, your market and then being in relationship with the external factors that you know you're a part of. And really, what is the number one thing we know all relationships are built on? It's trust. Yet if we are not grounded in our self-worth and we compromise it with comparison, perfectionism, overworking people pleasing and busyness procrastination I mean there's so many but those are usually the top five.
Tiffany Houser
00:49:10
Yes.
Tiffany Houser
00:49:11
We're doing these things to ourselves. And so I come across so many leaders and founders who want to constantly what could I do? What could I do? And I'm like, how about I ask you a couple questions and we'll see. Because I there is no templated formula for people. There's a framework that we have, but there's no single way or one way because we're all so different. And I don't know where your insecurities or your your stuff, if you will, is coming from. I don't know what the stories your ego is making up about him, and it's so it's such a fun journey when we go on.
Tiffany Houser
00:49:47
These, these,
Tiffany Houser
00:49:48
Engagements with people because, yeah, some of it stings in the beginning, but then there's like this relief and then it becomes fun when you're like, oh, I see what my ego's trying to do. I see what my ego like, always like the go to the autopilot. And then you have the tools to bring yourself back up into your awareness and say, yeah, okay, I'm going to choose something else.
Tiffany Houser
00:50:12
I'm going to trust myself right now. I'm going to trust this other person because trust is contagious too. You can't expect your people to trust you if you are not trusting you 100%.
Lee Murray
00:50:25
Very well said. Thank you so much for coming on. This has been amazing as I always knew it would. enjoyed our introduction call and and of course enjoyed this. There's so much more that we could talk about, I know, so we'll have to revisit this later if I want to send someone your way. everyone who's listening, where should we send them?
Tiffany Houser
00:50:45
Yeah.
Tiffany Houser
00:50:45
Thank you. our website is evolve E-comm. And our. What we've been talking about today is our self-worth advantage framework. which you could also find at Self-worth Advantage. Com and you could also find me on LinkedIn. I'm on LinkedIn almost every day I love LinkedIn.
Lee Murray
00:51:03
There you go. Have you started using the video platform on the on the mobile.
Tiffany Houser
00:51:08
Not on mobile, but I and it's funny because I had one of the moments where I was like, forget it all, I'm done with it all.
Tiffany Houser
00:51:15
I did a LinkedIn live event last week and boy did we have some tech issues. And you know, for the listeners out there, when you're a founder or a leader, usually it's the technical stuff like tech issues that, you know, you want to throw it all the baby away with the bathwater, as they say. And I was.
Tiffany Houser
00:51:34
Like.
Tiffany Houser
00:51:35
Literally 15 minutes before going live. I'm like, oh.
Lee Murray
00:51:38
My God, nothing's working.
Tiffany Houser
00:51:39
So yeah. So the video piece is next.
Tiffany Houser
00:51:44
awesome.
Lee Murray
00:51:45
That's awesome. All right. Yeah. Thanks again. and we'll, we'll have to have you back to, to dig into this deeper.
Tiffany Houser
00:51:51
Yeah. Thank you, Lee, and thank you to everyone listening today.