Dan Tyre – The Power of Growth and Startups
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Lee Murray
Welcome back to the Explorer and Growth podcast with myself, Lee Murray. I have Dan Tire here today from HubSpot. If you don't know who he is, you're about to find out. This is an amazing episode. Hey, Dan.
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Dan Tyre
Lee.
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Lee Murray
How are you?
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Dan Tyre
I am off the charts. Great. How about you?
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Lee Murray
That's awesome. Me too. I'm just coming off a bout of COVID, but I'm back. I'm glad to be back.
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Dan Tyre
Nice. It's good to have you healthy. Right. And I can bring the big energy to this podcast right now.
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Lee Murray
The Non-Covid energy.
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Dan Tyre
All right, tell everybody to turn it down to three, because I'm gonna be jumping up and down. I'm going to be like you. Pretty excitable boy, right? And I love doing podcasts with people who talk about a growth mindset. This also may not be the growth mindset in 2022. Oh, my.
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Lee Murray
Goodness. That's the premise of my being at this point. You know.
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Dan Tyre
I know that reputation.
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Lee Murray
That's my whole reputation.
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Dan Tyre
So consider the nice beard is right. Right. A righteous dude. I think that's what he said. This is like that could be a Todd Hockenberry quote and he's like, You should do this podcast. I'm like, Why? He's like, It's all about a growth mindset. I'm like, I'm in.
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Lee Murray
All right, let's do it. Yeah, you're booked easy. It was easy.
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Dan Tyre
For exactly, exactly. It's because I like to talk. It's because I like to help people. My mission statement is to do the most good for the universe. And I like doing podcasts very, very helpful and effective and doing the best that we can to help everybody in the 21st century.
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Lee Murray
That's awesome. Yeah. And just for background, as he's mentioning and Todd Hockenberry is another person I've had on, you know, a very knowledgeable expert marketing consultant. I've had him on before and he introduced us. Yeah, there's his book. That's Todd's book. Great book, by the way. He have had him on to introduce me to Dan and we're Off to the races.
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Dan Tyre
Coauthored this book with Todd. My name is.
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Lee Murray
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That's right.
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Dan Tyre
That's right. That's right. That's why Todd is the best coauthor in the history of books. He is an amazing person and it took us a year and a half to write the book. We didn't have one argument. It was amazing.
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Lee Murray
Wow, that's impressive.
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Dan Tyre
It is. It is. I mean, conflict oriented. I fight with everybody. So, first of all, Todd is thoughtful and kind, right? Second of all, he's super smart. He's got three patents and lasers. Right. Third of all, he's focused on, like helping people as well. And for industrial companies, there's no one better and helping them grow. So I'm a huge fan.
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Dan Tyre
I just told him that he was feeling a little down. I'm like, Don't feel down right. You're adding tremendous value and risk to do that. And that's what always it's important.
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Lee Murray
Always get a reminder. Yeah.
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Dan Tyre
Exactly.
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Lee Murray
So as we're jumping into this just briefly for those people, because a lot of this is going to be, you know, dispersed on LinkedIn, some people don't know who you are. Give us a quick, brief like introduction to the entire.
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Dan Tyre
I'm sure my name is Dante. I live primary residents in Paradise Valley, Arizona. I'm the luckiest guy in the world. Okay. On all forms of social media. Yeah. LinkedIn, Dante, our executive at HubSpot, if you want to connect with me on Twitter at the entire if you want to connect with me on Instagram, the tier one. So you can see pictures of my food.
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Dan Tyre
Right. And I've had a storied career. First of all, the marriage of the beautiful Amy Tyler for 33 years.
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Lee Murray
Awesome.
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Dan Tyre
Congrats. She's the smart type. You have Amy, on this podcast, you know, big energy. She actually thinks things through.
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Lee Murray
I think she balances, you out.
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Dan Tyre
And she does all the work like most like relationships, right?
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Lee Murray
Yeah, exactly.
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Dan Tyre
And essentially an ATM, a pack mule and survivor. And she does all the like thinking, planning for like a great mom, a great like she's a great traveler. She's a little funnier than I am, which is a little bit of a problem for my male ego. But other than I.
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Lee Murray
Can see it, yeah.
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Dan Tyre
Grown together. I love being married to our love. Hanging out with her. We were just in Honduras last week. Right? So awesome. Speaking engagement was pretty cool. So the luckiest guy in the world. I have two grown kids. Eli's 27, Sally 24. Very socially responsible, which is the influence that my wife had. And over the last 42 years, I've done five startups, right?
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Dan Tyre
Okay. I'm a little I've got some weirdness going on. I live in a purple house. I'm a bass player, you know. Okay.
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Lee Murray
I do know. Two. Yes.
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Dan Tyre
Okay. I bet you they're weird. I just they are.
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Lee Murray
They are.
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Dan Tyre
They are.
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Lee Murray
No one's that one's an engineer.
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Dan Tyre
Yeah, it aligns perfectly. If I ever write a second book, I'm going to talk about the benefit of being a bass player for as an entrepreneur. Okay. I like lead singers and guitar players. They're all about the limelight. They're all about, you know, bass players don't care about that.
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Lee Murray
Right? You're you're they're just keeping the rhythm. You're just trying to keep keep people going and laying the foundation, the structure.
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Dan Tyre
That's what I've been doing for the last 42 years. 100 years. That's awesome. Right? That's perfect. So I went to Colgate University. I graduated in 1980, which most of your listeners are like, Wow, he did all that. And then it was super fun. And I was a bass player in a heavy metal rock and roll band when I graduated and played around for about a year and then went to work for a computer reseller in Boston.
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Dan Tyre
Right. And it could have been the worst run company in the world. They had an exclusive to sell Apple Computer East of the Mississippi and they found a way to screw that up. It's called the computer store. And I learned a lot from seeing what they did and saying I am never going to do that unmotivated employees inventory problems.
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Lee Murray
It's a great way to start out planning.
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Dan Tyre
It was awesome. Anyway, my boss was this guy Roger and Roger was from the Midwest and he was a good guy. He gave me my first shot. He comes in after a year. He's like, I'm leaving. I'm like, Why? He's like, I'm going to a startup. Like, What's a startup? He's like, It's a small company. It's going to go quickly.
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Dan Tyre
I'm like, All right, have a good time. He's like, No, no, I want to take you with me. I'm like, I got a job. It's like, I'll give you $100 more a month and I'm like, Yeah, I'm a startup guy. So I quit my job and went with Roger and it was just dumb luck. Like, I never I never no one ever talked about startups.
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Dan Tyre
Back in 19.
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Lee Murray
They weren't sexy.
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Dan Tyre
Yeah, they didn't really exist. In the old days. It cost millions of dollars to start a company. You had to plan and do a 50 page business model. Right. Only very, very wealthy folks and businesses started the business. Yeah, right. Anyway, this company went from $2 million when I joined to $1.4 billion.
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Lee Murray
Oh, wow.
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Dan Tyre
Over nine years. And that's when $1,000,000,000 was real money, right? It was amazing. Right. I started as a salesperson in Boston, went to Framingham and ran a location, then moved to general management, went to L.A., San Francisco and New York. Right. And I got an unbelievable MBA in how to work with people, how to scale businesses, how to grow very, very quickly.
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Dan Tyre
And it was amazing, amazing education. I learned so much. Oh, my goodness. And they were like.
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Lee Murray
I can imagine.
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Dan Tyre
And I learned the keys to a scale, some of which we're going to talk about today. My second startup, I founded myself after nine years at the Business Land, the name of that company, I decided, all right, I want to see if this is something that I could do myself. Can I be the name.
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Lee Murray
Of the company was Business Land?
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Dan Tyre
Yeah, Business Land. That was the name of it.
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Lee Murray
That sounds like a monopoly board, like a game.
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Dan Tyre
You'll see as I go through this, I have historically been associated with the worst named companies in the history of American business. So horrible questions like what is that? Like a a executive park firm?
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Lee Murray
Yeah, it's like a failed executive theme park idea.
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Dan Tyre
That was.
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Lee Murray
Right.
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Dan Tyre
Back in the 1980s. There was a company by the name of Computer Land. Do you ever hear computer land? No. Computer land, microwave age. This they were computer resellers. Mark Cuban started with a computer reseller back in 1982 and saw the growth of computers anyway. Business Land was company and they're like, okay, we're all about this, so we're going to be business land.
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Dan Tyre
I'm like, That's the biggest thing I've ever heard. I can't work for a couple of other business, but I did for ten years and the symbol was be whistle while he's there, the company grew explosively. The founders were gave Norman, who was a great guy, Enzo Torres, who was a smart guy. Right. And started in San Jose. So right on Stephen Street Boulevard.
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Dan Tyre
And I worked all over the United States for this company and I couldn't believe they kept promoting me. It was amazing and it was a great ride and I learned a ton and then I'm like, No, no, no. I think I could do this better. Which is like probably not right and hubris. So I quit and I started my own company in Neenah, Massachusetts.
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Dan Tyre
This one was called Automated Labor, Inc.. And what do you think of that name?
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Lee Murray
I mean, you're getting better, but it's still lacking. It's not not really easily brand able.
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Dan Tyre
Yeah, you're just being nicely right. Your it was horrible people like are you a tech firm? Are you a robotics firm? What is automatically what are you just what everybody wants and they're like, no, that's stupid. In fact, about eight years later, after I sold the company, I was in an audience of guy presenting branding and he put up automated.
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Dan Tyre
Labor is one of the worst examples of company names ever. And I'm like, Yep, yep. Okay. Like I'm that, I mean, hey, you.
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Lee Murray
Grew a company with a horrible name. I mean, what better report could you have? I mean.
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Dan Tyre
All right, one after a year, I changed it to Ally Technologies. Don't pay much, but part of explaining how I'm an idiot when it comes to naming companies and Ally was great because it started with a sauce on the top of all list. Number one can remember I own Ally XCOM, which is a funny story around that as well.
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Dan Tyre
Okay. I was with that company for nine years. Same thing. I had a location. World headquarters was indeed a massachusetts, had a location on Wall Street and we doubled in size every year. And it turns out it was a consulting and software company around collaborate collaboration technology was in the early days of the growth of the web was super exciting.
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Dan Tyre
We worked around Lotus Notes, we had a training division. It was amazing. And in 1997, somebody from Phenix said, All right, we want to buy it. And I'm like, okay. So we negotiated our price. And eight weeks before we were going to consummate the deal, they're like, There's one other thing. I'm like, What? They're like, You got to move to Phenix.
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Dan Tyre
I'm like, I'm never going to Phenix. They're like, I'll do the deal. Wow. They did something very smart. They recruited me in December. And have you ever been in Boston in December?
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Lee Murray
I have not been in Boston in December. I have been in the nice months.
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Dan Tyre
Okay. Boston in December is the tundra, right? Yes. Three feet of snow. It's amazing. No one ever.
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Lee Murray
Talks about.
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Dan Tyre
It. I know. I know. I know. That's because they're too discouraged. We got the Phenix is like palm trees. Yeah, yeah. Wearing sweatshirt. I'm like, maybe I can stay for a year. I've been here for 24 years. Wow. Right in that time, Phenix has changed a lot. Anyway, I was on the board of directors of that company. I ran sales and professional services.
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Dan Tyre
It was super fun company scaled very, very quickly, 30, $40 million. And then I bought their training division and ran their training division highly successfully for two years. And then when 911 hit, I had to put the company into bankruptcy. Right, which was wow, you're an a hard charging like executive with two successful wins. Yeah. Now, right.
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Lee Murray
That's super difficult.
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Dan Tyre
You know what? But I learned how to do it. My beautiful wife supported me the whole time. She's like, We'll get through this.
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Lee Murray
She's a keeper. She's a.
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Dan Tyre
Keeper. And she was right there. She always is. And I learned how to do it. And I've helped dozens of folks. Yeah, kind.
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Lee Murray
Of navigated.
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Dan Tyre
By the river. And then I went to work for a company called Groove Networks out of Boston. And after five years, they got bought by Microsoft. Lucky me, right? It was my fourth startup. It was very interesting technology. I covered a territory from Los Angeles to Arkansas and it was like super fun. 128 that collaborative technology, peer to peer right, invented by this guy Ray Ozzie, who was also the inventor of Lotus Notes and just brilliant and a good business person and lots of fun.
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Dan Tyre
Anyway, my boss there was this guy, Brian Halligan. And when Microsoft bought Groove, he went to MIT. I worked for Microsoft for a year, and they they started HubSpot, Dharmesh and Brian started that spot. So the 2006, they called me and they said, We want you to be one of the startup team members. I'm like, Why me? They're like, You're a great startup guy.
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Dan Tyre
You got a lot of energy. You know how to sell our software, isn't that good?
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Lee Murray
So now we actually have a name that's could be branded and could actually be used. I mean, this is.
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Dan Tyre
Ira, you know, groundbreaking quagmire of poorly named companies. Yeah, right. HubSpot, most people in the early days, people like like StubHub. And I'm like, yeah, like what? And we got our own little sprocket, which is designed by a Dharmesh, his wife. And we've got an orange logo, which it's great, especially those weasels over at Orange Theory. Oh, my gosh.
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Lee Murray
But every time I see orange theory on the back of someone's car, I think HubSpot. So, I mean, there's some something good happening there.
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Dan Tyre
Now, John Kelleher is our chief legal officer. And for four years in a row, I brought it up to him and said, you got to stop that. Yeah, I'm just like Dan, no one is going to confuse Jim with a software company. Just leave it alone. And then he's right. John Keller, first on my.
00:14:05:15 - 00:14:10:01
Lee Murray
Face, the first time I saw him in a car, I was like, They're going off line now. Are they like building.
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Dan Tyre
Communities or.
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Lee Murray
What's going on here? Had the people put this on their car?
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Dan Tyre
Amazing. Anyway, I'm play number six at HubSpot. I've been there for 15 years, still full time employed there. My first 14 years I was in sales. Okay. I probably work for a variety of great VP of sales. Mark Roberge took us from 0 to $100 million in seven years. Amazing. That is a seven year. There is a first.
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Dan Tyre
It's smartest guys.
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Lee Murray
It's really that.
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Dan Tyre
Second of all. Yeah. Yeah. He wrote the book called the Sales Acceleration Points. Welcome, everybody.
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Lee Murray
It's amazing.
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Dan Tyre
And it's because he's not a vice president sales. He's a scientist engineering background and he applied engineering techniques in sales organization. And like after the first 90 days, I'm like, this guy's too smart, right? I don't even have to think. I'm just going to do whatever Mark tells me to do. And that turned out to be pretty good.
00:15:02:22 - 00:15:32:05
Dan Tyre
So, Heidi Carlson and peekaboo to and Marco Barish and I helped scale HubSpot in 2007 and I did like lots of jobs in the early days, right. I sold I moved to management. I was the first sales director. I ran the international division. I did sales recruiting. There was a lot of things that I had my fingers in and I always tell everyone everything changed in 2007, the way we scale company.
00:15:32:10 - 00:16:04:23
Dan Tyre
Everything went out the window in 2007 because with the addition of SAS software in the SAS revolution and the scalable way that you could then see applications so that you could track statistics, it became more of a process. Right? Right. HubSpot had great innovation. We essentially invented the inbound process, inbound marketing, inbound sales, the inbound flywheel. And it was so much fun, right, because it was innovative and we could provide a competitive advantage for our clients.
00:16:04:23 - 00:16:40:08
Dan Tyre
And so I did it for a long time, worked in a lot of different areas, met a ton of great folks and now, I don't know, 15 years later, HubSpot is now a publicly traded company. 6000 employees, 120 countries, sold software, sold, 120 countries worldwide. And we have, I think, 1.71.60 no, it's 143,000 paying customers. Wow. Which shows that we've worked very, very hard.
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Dan Tyre
Yeah. In the old days it was inbound marketing and right now it's inbound like flywheel. It's a front office with sales, service and support sales, service and marketing. And it's a great way to scale a company.
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Lee Murray
And you're mainly in the mid-market in enterprise, or you have a product for the small company to write.
00:17:04:11 - 00:17:20:02
Dan Tyre
All the way up. Right when we started, we were primarily SMB. Yeah, right. But we then branched out to mid-market now solidly in the corporate area and it's a barbell strategy where we'll work with somebody that's a solo entrepreneur all the way to a company of 2000 employees. Yeah.
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Lee Murray
You know what was most impressive to me? And when I think about HubSpot is talking about that sales. Sales scale up from zero, 100 million. That to me was equally, if not more impressive than the actual product itself, even though the product is, you know, A-plus, just because it's like it's that is the the the case study for how to scale a company.
00:17:42:12 - 00:18:05:16
Dan Tyre
I think that's right. It was at the time now it's a little bit different. It pivoted again in 2017 and then it pivoted again in 2000, 2020. Right. Based on the global pandemic and digital first. Right. But HubSpot was always innovative, had access to capital. Yes. The big thing with HubSpot is they always put people first. Yeah, right.
00:18:05:16 - 00:18:27:17
Dan Tyre
And the reason that's still the tough spot after 15 years is now I work in marketing. Right. Which is a little bit weird for me. Right. I work for this lady, Courtney Semler, who's amazing. Right. And I work for HubSpot Academy, which is amazing if your listeners don't know HubSpot Academy, I just Google it. Okay. Right. Hotspot Academy offers 400 courses.
00:18:27:18 - 00:18:35:04
Dan Tyre
Sales, marketing, entrepreneurship, writing, different hard and soft skills for free, which makes total sense.
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Lee Murray
I mean, it makes total sense if that's the way you guys would go based on where I saw you come from. Because I mean, back in the early days, you guys were doing stuff that all these other companies are now only doing, like Salesforce and these other type of companies where you would have employees on in front of a camera, you know, almost 24 hours a day delivering just high value content out to agencies.
00:18:58:00 - 00:19:06:04
Lee Murray
I was, you know, part of HubSpot as from the agency side way back. And so I got to experience that side of it and it was impressive to me.
00:19:07:03 - 00:19:32:21
Dan Tyre
Yeah. Dharmesh Ise the Dalai Lama of HubSpot and he always had a big heart and he created the culture code. Both Brian and Dharmesh wanted to create a lasting company and started from the top right, and I played a very small role in that. And I wasn't senior executive, I was an individual contributor, manager and director and continue to do that because of the impact that it makes.
00:19:33:02 - 00:19:40:06
Dan Tyre
Our mission today, I'm Spot is a mission driven organization to help millions of individuals and companies grow better. We don't want to do that.
00:19:40:06 - 00:19:51:09
Lee Murray
Okay. There you go. There you go. I was. But I was going to ask you about the grow better hashtag on LinkedIn, because I saw you posting with that a lot. Is that where that comes from? Is it attached to the company?
00:19:52:08 - 00:20:12:23
Dan Tyre
Yeah. Yeah. Most of the intelligent things that I say I clip right from the smart people to think it through. And HubSpot and it's really been amazing, right? Because I'm spot is always bigger than just one, right. They started with the inbound process. Right. And as you know, I wrote a book inbound organization, which is everything I learned because everything was different.
00:20:13:03 - 00:20:38:11
Dan Tyre
Yeah, right. When you go from 0 to $100 million in seven years, which I had rarely seen before. Right. An app like that is a different model. Yes. And now you see companies growing even more quickly. Yes. Right. Because they're leading into the SAS revolution. They're understanding which metrics to focus on. They're more visible and they're leveraging what we call the inbound flywheel, which is to attract, engage and delight folks.
00:20:38:21 - 00:21:00:22
Dan Tyre
Right, so that they grow virally, which applies to exploring a growth mindset podcast as well, because that's part of the things that we recommend people do, is to lean in to digital first. It's the most scalable way it is, right? Rather than like spending a lot of time and effort going out and engaging customers, let the customers come, correct?
00:21:01:01 - 00:21:40:15
Dan Tyre
Right. Starts with your website. Have your CRM connected directly to your website. Right. When we're talking about the HubSpot competitive advantage, right? If somebody can drop their information on your website, go directly to your CRM, have an indication of somebody, either a marketing or sales to follow up automatically. Now all of a sudden you are automating the low content work which greatly accelerates your ability to find the right good big customer, engage them in a way in which they understand that you're interested in people, and then if they're ready to go, sign them on as a customer and make sure that they stick around so that you can get other customers.
00:21:40:17 - 00:22:06:01
Lee Murray
Most definitely. You know, on the on the content side, it makes sense to create valuable content, obviously. But I'm more intrigued with the distribution side. You know, once you have the valuable content, you need to distribute it so you can get the feedback and then that that cycle there, I mean, it's much more nuanced than that, but that cycle is how you actually learn more about your customers or your audience and can feed them more of what they want.
00:22:06:01 - 00:22:11:08
Dan Tyre
Yeah, it's amazing. And in 2007, I invented the term marketing. Have you ever heard?
00:22:11:17 - 00:22:13:22
Lee Murray
I have, by the way. Yeah.
00:22:14:19 - 00:22:35:15
Dan Tyre
Yeah, I invented that. I was getting drunk with Mike Volpi, our CMO at the time, and I'm like, we just started getting inbound leads. It was like August of 20,000, 2000, seven, and inbound leads were made before August. I had a cold call. I go call for HubSpot, don't tell anybody. And I would like call people up and just out of the blue.
00:22:35:19 - 00:22:56:06
Dan Tyre
Yeah, try to do a little bit of research. But sure, being online was it was the same before I would explain the value proposition and I got about the same response right as you would expect. Right. 5% of the people were interested in. I would work that like sales funnel. Sales funnel didn't work anymore. Right. You have to get people to come to you with a flywheel.
00:22:56:06 - 00:23:17:15
Dan Tyre
And the best way to do that is to publish product or content, you know, our freemium product, right? Have them come find you by optimizing it. And you're 100% right. Mac In 2007, there were not a lot of people doing it. Now there are hundreds of thousands of people who are using the inbound methodology as a way of differentiating and working through this process.
00:23:17:20 - 00:23:37:15
Dan Tyre
So it's much more competitive before it's hard. Yeah, I think there's a lot of work that you got to do, right? But one of the like foundations is that now in 2022, every company is a tech company, right? That's a direct the entire quote used to be you could say I'm an I'm a non profit. You don't really lean into tech now you can't go this expectation.
00:23:37:21 - 00:24:00:19
Dan Tyre
Everybody has a working website, everybody has chat on their website, everybody gets a response and if you're using like a complex tech stack, that becomes more difficult to manage. If you're using a streamlined tech stack where you get all that information, you can look at all that data, you can understand what your customers are looking for. So you could greatly accelerate the.
00:24:00:19 - 00:24:01:11
Lee Murray
Process, right?
00:24:01:16 - 00:24:14:12
Dan Tyre
If you do that with people first. Right. Remembering that the six keys to inbound is number one, treat people like human beings. You think you we wouldn't have to remind people that you definitely.
00:24:14:13 - 00:24:15:19
Lee Murray
That's why I'm glad it's number one.
00:24:16:16 - 00:24:20:13
Dan Tyre
Exactly. Number two is help not sell. Do you like when people help you?
00:24:20:14 - 00:24:30:04
Lee Murray
Oh, of course. What I mean, because it helps me. That's going to help me get to the end goal of what I'm trying to offer. It solves a need for me that I have right now so I can move on to something else.
00:24:30:15 - 00:24:59:10
Dan Tyre
It sounds like it's your job. You're like everybody else. People love it. They sometimes they think it's weird. I'm like, No, I'm just here to help. Yeah, no, no. Like, help with what? I'm like the facts. What do you need help with? They're like, okay, you call me. And I'm like, Okay. Based on the research, what I saw looks like you could use some help in generating new customers or competitive advantage or understanding productivity or sales and marketing key or alignment internally or better statistics.
00:24:59:10 - 00:25:18:20
Dan Tyre
Or you need more leads or more quality leads or a client engagement, right? And then you'd want to answer that that or competitive advantage you want to them and they all say, I want an unfair advantage. I'm like, okay, well I'll give you a competitive advantage and you can take it where. Yeah, but number one, treat people like human beings.
00:25:18:20 - 00:25:39:01
Dan Tyre
Number two, help not cell number three, customer experience is your only competitive advantage, right? And it used to be people would buy something, they buy a computer or a car, whatever, because they had a special feature that no one else can today with the rate of development. Right? If we don't have a feature, we'll have it in six months.
00:25:39:06 - 00:26:05:18
Dan Tyre
Same thing with our competitors. So the only thing you can lean on, the only sustainable competitive advantage is customer experience. And just like you said, Lee, that is hard, right? Because you have to provide the right information to the right person. The right time, right. And when I go to people's website, I frequently see get a demo right or download a product brochure or something like that, which is not very welcome.
00:26:05:18 - 00:26:27:02
Dan Tyre
You're asking people get married on the first. Yeah, right, right. What I'd like to see is a checklist of how to use Riverside the first time as a public speakers. Right. Or how to stay focused when you're doing a podcast on exploring or something specific. And if I see that, I'm like, Ooh, that's right, that's helping, right? And some of that is great.
00:26:27:02 - 00:26:44:08
Dan Tyre
And some of it is behind a call to action and a landing page. I drop my contact information that I want you to engage with me based on where I'm at, and that's the sales and marketing alignment. In the old days it was all sales. Like we got all the leads, we called all the leads and we put people through a funnel that doesn't work anymore now, right?
00:26:44:10 - 00:27:10:21
Dan Tyre
Marketing and sales have to work in alignment so sales doesn't get all the leads. When sales calls, they have to call with help. That's right. Right. And they establish the relationship. It's a little different for different industries, but that's part of the inbound leadership principles and a philosophy. Then you want to make sure that your focused because focus meets bandwidth the rich are in the niche just have you ever heard that?
00:27:10:21 - 00:27:11:10
Lee Murray
I have.
00:27:12:06 - 00:27:17:12
Dan Tyre
Okay. Or if you're in the UK, if you want to go to the beaches, you've got to work the niches.
00:27:17:21 - 00:27:41:22
Lee Murray
And it is, it is everything right now and it's getting even even more. So let me tell you a quick story. So I have a 13 year old son and he plays all these different video games and one of them is it's not Farmville, but it's something like that. It's got the Crossy Road stuff. I can't think of the name, but it's this 24 hour cycle where you build a farm and you you you pull weeds and you plant stuff and you do different things.
00:27:42:14 - 00:28:07:11
Lee Murray
Well, he was telling me the other day that just about how the game worked, and he said that you want to start a YouTube channel and talk about, you know, show video of him playing this game because he saw this other YouTuber doing it. And she has an entire YouTube following which is rather large of people watching her do one thing in this game and it has to do with frogs.
00:28:08:01 - 00:28:28:08
Lee Murray
So she's basically, you know, just talking about the frog character inside of this game for hours and hours and hours and hours on end on YouTube and on Twitch. And she has hundreds of thousands of subscribers and followers. That's that's where we are today with it's her niche and people care about that and they want to follow and they want to buy merch.
00:28:28:08 - 00:28:43:08
Lee Murray
They're buying T-shirts with with her logo on it. I think that's amazing. I mean, I think it's amazing because people can actually create on a level like that. But, you know, to the to the small to midsize market, it's the same way, you know, even if we're B2B, we have to think about it that way.
00:28:44:05 - 00:29:05:14
Dan Tyre
Great example. So it's hard for an entrepreneur to turn that down business. But there's three reasons you do it. Number one, you want to focus on the way the place you do your best work, right? You typically have good customer references there, right? You understand that business. And like if you start Eikenberry's example, he's got three patents for laser.
00:29:05:15 - 00:29:20:23
Dan Tyre
So when you walk in and talking to him, you know, in the first 30 seconds, he's an industrial guy. So maybe factoring that he just knows he knows it, right? Yeah. A number two, they'll stick around longer because that's what you focus on if you're into frog strike and you want more information on frog, you come back.
00:29:20:23 - 00:29:21:11
Lee Murray
That's right.
00:29:21:21 - 00:29:47:23
Dan Tyre
Right. Finally. And this is lost on some SMB. You'll actually grow more quickly if you can. Nick, as narrow as possible. Right. It will allow you to grow more quickly because if you're a guy who wants broad, you Google it, you'll have the CEO. It'll come up. That's right. You'll see that it's long tail. Exactly. And as long as you have I don't know, I had one customer who had six prospects.
00:29:47:23 - 00:30:12:07
Dan Tyre
Six. That's it. And I'm like, that's kind of small. It's like, that's kind of amazing. 11a year, right? I did a telco show in 2019 and there was a lady there who wanted to meet me and get a book signed and her focus was telco companies in California, Arizona and Utah. Right. That at least her I think it was $30 Million.
00:30:12:13 - 00:30:33:16
Dan Tyre
She said there's 28 people like that. They all want to work with me. Right, because they know that's what I focused on. I'm like, Are they concerned about confidentiality or conflict? And they're like, No, yeah, they know that. I know this business as well as they. Yes, they know that I can deliver for them. So that focus over bandwidth is very, you know, the six part.
00:30:33:19 - 00:30:51:01
Lee Murray
I want to say one thing. Let me say one thing, and then I read a quote from a book a couple of years ago that stuck with me. And that was to be an expert means knowing more and more about less and less. You know, I mean, that what you're talking about, the example of the six prospects, is that right?
00:30:51:06 - 00:31:09:06
Lee Murray
I mean, and I think about that in my business all the time. And we're talking about marketing, we're talking about digital marketing. We're talking about Facebook. We're talking about Facebook ads. You know, you can as a as a consultant or as an advisor or as an expert or even a company that's selling a product, the more niche you can go, you're right.
00:31:09:17 - 00:31:16:05
Lee Murray
You're you're going to solve problems quicker because that long tail credibility is there.
00:31:16:05 - 00:31:37:16
Dan Tyre
There's so many advantages. Number one, it doesn't stress out your team. Number two, you're doing the same thing over and over again. By definition, you should get better at it. Number three, you build that reputation. Number four, right? If Todd Hockenberry says Now do Lee's podcast, I'm like, I'm not going to question this. Right, right. I'm like, like, the reason I was easy sale is because.
00:31:37:16 - 00:32:07:12
Dan Tyre
Todd So you leverage Todd's credibility, right, to correct and then boom, here, let's roll it. So the final thing, the six foundation of the inbound organization, the book I wrote with Todd is look at the data, right? And once again, that is another HubSpot competitive engine, because if you not have a database, right, of your ideal customer profile, of your personas, of how people are finding you, of the channels of the information, if you do, then you can tweak and optimize.
00:32:07:15 - 00:32:18:13
Dan Tyre
If you don't and you're working with multiple tools, right, then it becomes harder. You spend all your time trying to pull together all that information, you know, like look at the attribution and understand how.
00:32:18:19 - 00:32:34:02
Lee Murray
You know what's funny is what I see a lot is a lot of people have the data, but they don't have the first four or five things you mentioned. You know, they they have they're looking at lots of data and analytics, but they don't mean anything because they don't know what questions to ask of that data. They don't have the firms.
00:32:34:02 - 00:32:45:02
Lee Murray
They're not they don't know how to be helpful. They're not trying to be helpful, not thinking about the human first, you know. So all they're kind of missing all of the soft skills, but they have all the hard data. They just don't know what to do with it.
00:32:46:02 - 00:33:05:17
Dan Tyre
Yeah, 100%. You're just right. It's because it's hard, right? And people want to help, especially small business owners. The reason they went into business is they want to assist. They want to do good. Yeah, of course. Right. And that starts like it always starts with a mindset. You ask me in the briefing meeting what's the key to growth?
00:33:06:00 - 00:33:26:01
Dan Tyre
And one of the things that I like to talk about is mindset fact after this presentation. But you know, the presentation on my internally right and mindset is important because you need to grow personally and professionally. And when you start a company, you need to understand what kind of company is going to start and you have to understand why you're going to do this.
00:33:26:10 - 00:33:44:10
Dan Tyre
What's your why? Because you know this as well as I do. It's hard to start a company. I have a slide of a baby lifting a barbell. I go, It's easier or harder to start a company in 2022. And it's a very good slide because I always get both answers. Some people say it's easier, right? Some people say it's harder.
00:33:44:11 - 00:33:46:16
Dan Tyre
Yeah, right. And the answer is it's both.
00:33:46:17 - 00:33:47:15
Lee Murray
Depends on perspective.
00:33:48:11 - 00:34:10:08
Dan Tyre
Exactly. And it depends on how well-thought out you have. Like define what you want to do. And I think about probably 2012, I started solving problems differently. Yeah, right. And how do you solve problems? What's your mental process when you're trying to solve?
00:34:10:12 - 00:34:35:14
Lee Murray
Well, it's kind of different depending on the problem. I actually study this a lot, mental, mental things like mental modes, mental models. You know, there's the prisoner's dilemma. You know, when you talk about game theory and these kind of things. So I have different approaches that I kind of naturally go to depending on what the problem is. But to your point, though, the way I think about it is a company has to understand as they're starting out, that there's a need in the market.
00:34:35:14 - 00:34:47:09
Lee Murray
So they have to really get a pulse for what the market needs, but then they have to bring a vision to that need. They can't just solve the need because then they're just like the next person. They have to solve it in a unique way.
00:34:48:22 - 00:35:12:00
Dan Tyre
Awesome. I like that. In 2012, I started a new philosophy for problem solving that's pretty consistent over most problems, and that is, I start with the goals and work backwards. I was just doing this today with my friend Rachel. Rachel and I assist in building bootcamps in within HubSpot Academy and I'm like, All right, what is the end state?
00:35:12:00 - 00:35:19:16
Dan Tyre
What do you want to do? And she's like, That's a good question. And I'm thinking for anybody, if you don't know where you want to end up, how are you going to.
00:35:19:21 - 00:35:20:10
Lee Murray
How are you going to get.
00:35:20:10 - 00:35:30:01
Dan Tyre
There? Yeah. How did that why did you take me to 2012? To figure that out. Right now it's 11. Okay. What is you want to accomplish? And the same thing for scale, small business.
00:35:30:12 - 00:35:35:14
Lee Murray
Right? I think people just lose they lose sight of where they're going as they're grinding away each day.
00:35:35:22 - 00:35:53:22
Dan Tyre
The nicest people in the world right? No question. They want to help themselves. They want to help their customers. They want to grow. All that stuff is true. Right. But unless you have a desired end state, start with boots and work backwards. It's impossible to figure out just going along, right? You don't know if you're ahead or behind.
00:35:53:22 - 00:36:17:07
Dan Tyre
You don't have a plan or whatever is happening. Right. And in my experience, my personal experience in B2B software is it takes eight years to build a great company. Eight years, right. In those eight years, there's so many curveballs, there's so many issues, there's economic variations, there's global pandemics, there's wars, there's like crashes and all kinds of different assets.
00:36:17:15 - 00:36:39:02
Dan Tyre
It's like crazy. And that's just the way human life is. It's true. That is true. Right? So you got to be prepared. You got to understand that it's going to be totally different than your expectation. You've got to realize that it's expectation that you're going to start with. This is where I want to be every year and the long term.
00:36:39:06 - 00:37:06:09
Dan Tyre
Right. I have ten questions on W WW the entire dot com about questions I want to talk to somebody about before I like either advisor investing because it's not my company. Right? Starting in 2014, I became an angel investor and have invested in 30 or so companies, primarily women and people of color because they're underserved in in venture capital.
00:37:06:09 - 00:37:31:03
Dan Tyre
I never thought that was fair. And I'm like, all right, so let's figure out how we can rebalance going. And it's been amazing. And I got some great portfolio companies you can see and I want them to understand this is why I'm doing and my goal is to help them insulate. And my goal is to explain to your listeners, if you don't have a very specific written kind of, this is what I want to accomplish.
00:37:31:03 - 00:37:48:19
Dan Tyre
It's very difficult for somebody to coach you, somebody to get you there, for you to know whether you're making progress towards that. But if you do right, one of the things the first thing I mentioned is mindset have a good mindset. The second thing is a plan. And I can't tell you the number of small business owners. I'm like, okay, where's your plan?
00:37:48:19 - 00:38:02:17
Dan Tyre
And they're like, What? I'm like, I want to know on a monthly basis, what's your revenue? How many customers you have? Many net new customers. How many customers are going to retain what your profitability is and whether you're going to make money or lose. And they're like, That's a good idea. And I'm like, Sounds like.
00:38:02:17 - 00:38:05:07
Lee Murray
A business plan. You know, who would have.
00:38:05:07 - 00:38:08:16
Dan Tyre
Thought, Yeah, a business plan today. That's right.
00:38:08:16 - 00:38:11:04
Lee Murray
And it's just and it's really answering those questions.
00:38:12:00 - 00:38:29:13
Dan Tyre
It is. I know. I know, I know. But if you don't have a monthly plan, an advisor can't come in and say, all right, we had a behind. That's right. What's the issue? Right. And I'm all about speed to getting where we want to go. So you always started the goals work backwards, and then you have an actual plan that says, all right, this, now we're going right.
00:38:29:18 - 00:38:51:05
Dan Tyre
And once you have the numbers, the thing about entrepreneurs is they're incredibly enthusiasm, right? They just are passionate or they wouldn't be entrepreneurs. Right. There's a few Debbie Downers there, but mostly they're like, Yeah, I can beat the world and they can, right? But numbers don't lie. And I need to see that information. I need to see the progress we're making so that if there's a problem, we can catch it quick.
00:38:51:09 - 00:39:12:16
Dan Tyre
If they can't see it because they have it in my view, I want to make sure that they that an outside view and a revised treatment to their attention. And that's critically important for all of your listeners to understand. The third point that I want to bring up, every company is a technology company. I may have mentioned that before, but it used to be in the old days that people like now we're not going to lean into that.
00:39:12:16 - 00:39:32:06
Dan Tyre
You have to now, there's no question. And it's not because I work for a technology company. I really care what technology you work on, but you have to master that process and that's the key to scale. And then the final thing is you can't forget customers. I do a lot of work for HubSpot, for startups, and lots of people think, Oh, I'm going to develop this app and people are just going to use it.
00:39:32:06 - 00:39:37:00
Dan Tyre
I'm like, Well, are you going to sell it? And they're like, I don't have to sell it. People are just going to use who, right?
00:39:37:04 - 00:39:37:20
Lee Murray
Who's going to use it.
00:39:39:11 - 00:39:45:16
Dan Tyre
And so the process, as you always sell to your friend and family not give it to them, you sell it to you like, no.
00:39:46:00 - 00:39:48:02
Lee Murray
I have them give you objections.
00:39:48:07 - 00:39:52:18
Dan Tyre
Like why you're my brother in law. I'm like, I want you to pay for it because I need paid.
00:39:52:18 - 00:39:57:00
Lee Murray
That's the first objection you have to overcome. It says, Why do I have to pay for it? I'm your brother in law.
00:39:57:23 - 00:40:18:14
Dan Tyre
Yeah, it's because I need customers. That's good. That's good for most people, right? And I want to make sure I can take the order. I want to make sure that it's up. Right. Because a free trial, this other thing I say, a free trial or a user is different than a paid subscriber. And If people aren't willing to drop their American Express or Visa card on it, then it may be a little bit different.
00:40:18:14 - 00:40:18:22
Lee Murray
That's right.
00:40:19:01 - 00:40:48:02
Dan Tyre
Right. There are some business models and there's a variety of different approaches to that. Right. But I'm a big believer of tons of programs out there that that teach you how to deliver the service. And that's important. You got to deliver quality services. You're out of business in 2022, but you also have to have a sales and marketing process or a marketing process, a flywheel process that help you generate your first either five customers or 50 customers or 500.
00:40:48:14 - 00:41:05:04
Lee Murray
So if we talk about processes inside of market specifically, would you when you say that, are you alluding to a content production and distribution process or are you talking about something different?
00:41:05:04 - 00:41:26:20
Dan Tyre
There are all kinds of processes in any company. There's a new business development process. There is a customer retention process, there's a delivery process, there's a financial onboarding. Yeah, those kind of things. Unless you're going to be a small company, stay all in one room with women, you have to define that process going to change all the time.
00:41:26:20 - 00:41:50:07
Dan Tyre
That's right. You should get to a second location. So all of those processes need to be managed, automated and evaluated to make sure that you are properly supporting the customer. In the old days, right? People are calling complaining. People are calling complaining more. They just ghosted. They're like, now we move to somebody else. Just in 2000, I think 15, the average company has six competitors.
00:41:50:19 - 00:42:10:14
Dan Tyre
Right. And they're all about the same in 2022, the average company has 40 competitors. Right. And it's just doing. Right. Right. If somebody is not happy, they're just going to bolt. That's why client engagement is so important. That's why customer success should be one of the first hires that you have after the co-founders, right? Because if you're bringing out customers and they're not sticking around.
00:42:10:23 - 00:42:14:00
Dan Tyre
Right. It's very, very hard to grow a business like.
00:42:14:15 - 00:42:39:19
Lee Murray
Most definitely. Yeah. And I think to that point, to like thinking about some some businesses who, you know, it's not necessarily that you have to have a particular process that doesn't exist in your company. It's about if you're marketing that you're doing is working. It's about having a process that supports marketing so that you can scale. Because that's what really talking about is how do you go from, you know, one room, two rooms to ten rooms.
00:42:40:14 - 00:43:00:05
Dan Tyre
Maybe? Remember, if your goal is to just provide X amount of revenue for a certain person. That's right. I'm a lifestyle company. That's perfect, of course. And what I've learned helping hundreds and thousands of companies. It's not my business model. You could do whatever you want if your job is to make. If your goal is to make honor $50,000 with five customers and that's it and never grow.
00:43:00:11 - 00:43:24:23
Dan Tyre
Right? That's fine with me. Right. Let's just build a plan to get you there. Let's build a plan to make sure you stay there. Let's make sure that those five customers are insanely happy. Right. And that gives you the flexibility and capability of accomplishing your goals. Right. It's not all about the entire it's just about my 42 year experience of looking back and understanding that, number one, that every business is a people business is.
00:43:25:05 - 00:43:39:11
Lee Murray
Super, super valuable. And I appreciate all your advice. Before we go, as we're wrapping up free, any resources that you could sit I know, I know you got the academy and. Yeah, yeah. Where could you send people to go to learn more?
00:43:40:11 - 00:44:11:09
Dan Tyre
Yeah. So HubSpot offers a free Sierra. Actually, all of our software starts at free WW W HubSpot that CA right. Number two, HubSpot Academy right is 400 certification classes all online, all like you can stop and start whenever you like. I think there's 80 certifications and the rest are lessons all free. Right. And amazing. And what the Academy Organization has done over the last ten years is tremendous.
00:44:12:01 - 00:44:18:07
Dan Tyre
And then just Google HubSpot free resources.
00:44:18:15 - 00:44:19:04
Lee Murray
And there's a ton.
00:44:19:04 - 00:44:39:16
Dan Tyre
Of stuff. Yeah, there's 62 things that we can do from personas, everything, tools to download sheets to those kind of things, and we love doing it. Number one, when I walk through airports, people sometimes want to take selfies and things like that. They're like, I'm embarrassed. I'm like, Why? They're like, I've never bought anything from you. I use you all the time.
00:44:39:16 - 00:44:45:22
Dan Tyre
I'm like, Don't be embarrassed. That's by design. You ever recommend I'm smart? They're like, Yes, yes. I'm like, Good. Yeah, right.
00:44:46:00 - 00:44:48:03
Lee Murray
That's how are you helping? Yes, you're helping.
00:44:49:03 - 00:45:02:06
Dan Tyre
Exactly. And that's the philosophy that was driven by the founders that love. It is probably more acceptable in 2022, especially the SMB and companies that are scaling and super excited to be part of it.
00:45:03:00 - 00:45:18:03
Lee Murray
That's awesome. Before we go, I got one more question for you. Ask all my guest if you could change and some BS mind a CEO owner founder about one thing. What would it be? And and it doesn't have to be necessarily marketing sales related it's just growth related.
00:45:19:19 - 00:45:46:05
Dan Tyre
It's the riches are in the niches. It's the hardest thing I have to do is to tell a entrepreneur you can sell to both agriculture and professional services, but pick one and they don't want you because is for all the right reasons. They're like, No, we can help. But I'm like, But one has higher MBA scores. What you do better work one you like working with those people and they're like, Yeah, but I don't want to give up that revenue.
00:45:46:05 - 00:45:54:11
Dan Tyre
I'm like, You don't have to give up the revenue. But for new this new business, you have to. The more you focus on the starts on the frog story, like frog YouTube.
00:45:54:17 - 00:46:04:02
Lee Murray
Oh, it's it's so prevalent. There's these stories. There's probably 100,000 stories like that of people doing these niche things and talking about solo businesses. They're everywhere. It's amazing.
00:46:05:02 - 00:46:06:22
Dan Tyre
Yeah. So that would be my one.
00:46:08:07 - 00:46:16:19
Lee Murray
I love it. I love it. Thanks for your time and it's been great chatting with you. Thanks for all the advice. I'll be talking on LinkedIn whenever we distribute this out.
00:46:17:15 - 00:46:32:08
Dan Tyre
Awesome. Thank you, Lee. Thanks for making the connection. Thanks for HubSpot, for helping SMEs grow. And I'm at your service, right? People can connect with me on LinkedIn, they can connect with me on all levels of social media. And I look forward to helping them.
00:46:32:19 - 00:46:34:00
Lee Murray
That's great. Thanks a lot, Dan.
00:46:34:11 - 00:46:35:07
Dan Tyre
Thank you. Bye.
00:46:35:22 - 00:46:57:07
Lee Murray
Hey, I really appreciate you tuning in to this episode of Exploring Growth. I'm trying to get this in the hands of as many growing businesses as possible so they can take this practical wisdom in deployed in their companies or with their teams. If you're getting some value out of this show and know someone who should listen as well, would you consider sharing with them or leave a positive review on the platform in which you're listening or watching YouTube?
00:46:57:07 - 00:47:05:15
Lee Murray
Audience Leave a comment below something you liked or your perspective on what we discussed. I'm grateful for everyone that tunes in every week. Let's keep exploring.