Optimizing the Customer Experience with Shamir Duverseau, CEO at Smart Panda Labs
Join our host, Lee Murray in the latest episode of the CEO series as he sits down with Shamir Dover, CEO of Smart Panda Labs, about enhancing customer experiences for business growth. They cover optimizing post-click experiences, aligning marketing with customer needs, and leveraging feedback for improvement. Shamir also shared insights on nurturing long-term customer relationships and blending physical and digital elements for a seamless shopping experience.
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Go here: https://www.harvardmurray.com/exploring-growth-podcast
Connect on LinkedIn:
Lee - https://www.linkedin.com/in/leehmurray/
Shamir - https://www.linkedin.com/in/shamirduverseau/
#ExploringGrowthPodcast #BusinessInsights #EntrepreneurialJourney #BusinessExpansion #EmbracingGrowth #MarketingTalk #ShamirDuverseau #SmartPandaLabs #CostumerExperience # Feedback
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And then eventually, because it's
technical, it has to get involved.
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But now you've done it behind their
back. Now it's too late. Right?
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And now they're going to either
messing something up or they're
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going to block you out of spite or,
you know, a number of other things
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are going to happen because you
weren't good partners in saying what
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was the right foundation, a framework
that works for everyone, or.
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They have wild success and they
look at it and say, see,
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I told you so. Yeah, right. Yeah.
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All right.
Welcome back to Exploring Growth
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and to our CEO series where I'm
interviewing CEOs around the
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Central Florida area.
Today we're talking about the
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customer experience as a means
for growth.
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So I have the pleasure of
talking with Shamir Dover.
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So who is a CEO of Smart Panda
Labs here in Central Florida?
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Welcome to the podcast, Shamir.
Thank you so much for having me.
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Lee. How excited. Yeah. Me too.
You know,
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as I was looking at your company,
I really like that you are focused on
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solving for the customer's experience
as they click through a brand's
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lead gen workflow, and that's just
one way to describe it, I guess.
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But, you know, talking to a lot
of marketing leaders here,
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listening, they know about
workflows and lead gen and
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demand gen and all these things.
So to put it in their terms,
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you know, I think that what, what
what sparked an interest from for me
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and why I brought you on is like
this can often be an afterthought,
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I think for a lot of companies and
brands and maybe even if not an
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afterthought, it's just not intense.
There's not enough intentionality
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put behind that journey.
And then the company kind of ends up
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with sort of lackluster results,
which leads to marketing teams
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thinking that, hey,
we need a new strategy, you know?
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And I'm a strategy, guys.
So like, I'm never going to tell
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somebody to not think about strategy.
But I think this is one of those
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times where they could actually go
down the wrong path, thinking that
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they need to retool their strategy
completely when there's just really a
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lot of conversion optimization that
could be had around the experience,
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that can make things a lot better,
you know, instead of instead of
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throwing the proverbial baby out
with the bathwater, you know,
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taking a look at their customer
journey, customer experience is
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is a good thing.
So I'm excited to chat with you
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today, and how how you do this for
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your customers and to give our
audience some wisdom around
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customer experience.
Before we jump into our conversation,
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tell everybody about what is smart
Panda Labs, what are you all
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about and who do you work with?
Yeah, so we're,
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a digital experience agency, we've been around for about
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14 years now.
So we focus,
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as you kind of mentioned,
on the post click experience.
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So,
what happens on the on the internet
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after someone clicks on the ad?
And how do you use that
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experience to drive revenue,
to drive profitability, to drive
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lifetime value for the organization, we do that for mid-market
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and enterprise organizations, mostly direct to consumer,
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00:02:56,790 --> 00:03:01,950, organizations, so, we've been doing this,
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experience for the past few years.
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broader services across digital
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media and SEO and things like that,
but we decided we really wanted to
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focus on that post click experience
just because we didn't feel like
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it was getting enough love.
So yeah, we figured, let's do it.
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Yeah, it makes a lot of sense.
So let's start kind of high level.
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Why does the experience of the
customer matter so much?
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everything you kind of do is really
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around the experience you get, one example I always give to
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people is, you know, I like fast
food as much as the next guy does.
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and the kind of experience you
have there is a lot different than
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the experience that you have.
I'll just say, for the sake of
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protecting other brands, other
fast food restaurants. Yes. Right.
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And, it's not because the
food is that much better.
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I mean, you could argue it is,
but really it's because you get
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quick service.
The line could be around the
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building twice, and yet you still
know it's going to move quickly
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just because the people there know
what they're doing and they just
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give you a positive experience.
And that releases so much tension
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and friction and doubt and fear
in the in the whole experience
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that it makes you want to go
back because you trust it. Yes.
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experience is so important.
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product or it's all about the price.
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And those things definitely play
a large role.
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But to underestimate the role the
experience plays is really to sell
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yourself short because it it adds
up that that friction and that
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that anxiety really does add up.
And it and it pushes people in
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the wrong direction.
I love that you use chick fil A as an
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example. I use them all the time.
And I'm personally, my experience has
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been that I've never had a better
lesson in etiquette then going
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through the doors at a chick fil A,
because it seems like.
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And it's just so it's so in
front of my face now, I can't,
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I can't not see it.
But every time I go into the
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restaurant, physically,
I am reminded about that.
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There are people out there and I
don't know if it just exists in
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that one microcosm or not, but that
people do know how to say please
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and thank you. And they do not.
They do know how to hold a door
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and let someone else or wait for
you to get there.
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It's it's a it's a crazy thing
because a lot of the experience I'm
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having is with the team members
themselves because they're,
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they're carrying food out in and
out and they're holding the door.
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But I see it replicated immediately
with customers that are are doing it
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for the team member or vice versa.
And it's just such a pleasant
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experience to walk through those
doors and feel like, oh man,
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the door is being held for me,
or I got to hold it for someone else.
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And I haven't even gotten to
into the restaurant yet.
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I think it's a perfect example.
Yeah, when we go, when we happen
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to go to some other fast food and
just the chaos ensues and the drive
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thru lane or having to go in. Side.
I often turn to my wife and say,
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this is this is just uncivilized.
Like this isn't.
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This isn't the way things are meant
to be, you know? So no, it's so true.
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That's the best way to describe it, yeah.
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You know, and from a from a
business metric standpoint,
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I think chick fil A is killing it.
I think their their numbers are more
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than all the other ones combined.
I think if I read that right,
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recently, which just and they're
not even open on Sundays.
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So, you know, to the nature of the
experience, you're right on. Exactly.
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experience is is paramount today.
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It's one of the most critical things
we can think about as marketers,
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00:06:34,550 --> 00:06:38,030, because people and I've said
this on lots of our,
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my recent podcast because we talk
we're talking a lot about brand and
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culture and those kind of things.
But people want to feel connected to
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the the thing that they're doing.
And so that experience is,
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is very important for them to
feel like it's maybe not.
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It doesn't have to be hyper
personalized.
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I think it depends on what
medium or format or, you know,
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platform they're on, but they need
to feel like it's making sense,
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more and more sense to them.
Would you agree? Yeah, 100%.
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00:07:07,670 --> 00:07:12,440, I think people people today
and the generations that exist
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in the digital age have so much
more influence in control,
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over their interaction with brands
and services and products those
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brands offer than they did a
generation ago, that it's really
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caused this dramatic shift. Right.
So when we were younger, when our
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parents were, you know, our age.
So the brand has so much control.
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You had to go to the department
store.
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local Sears or whatever it was
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you trusted explicitly with,
that salesperson told you about
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what was the better model.
And, you know,
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this is a good price or not,
because you didn't really have a
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basis to explore that yourself,
to research it yourself,
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to understand and compare prices, what little bit of comparison
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you had to a lot of hassle because
you have to go to a whole nother
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store and have a whole nother
experience somewhere else.
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So you just kind of took it for
granted and you kind of said,
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okay, you know,
I like this place. This is close.
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Like, this is what you're telling me.
That's great. Right? Yeah.
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Well, the internet has completely
blown that apart because now all
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I have to do is go to, you know,
go to Google or my favorite search
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engine type in the product.
I get all kinds of feedback reviews.
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I get prices from, you know,
a dozen different retailers,
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places I can go to look at it or,
you know, I can get videos or all
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kinds of things that just put me
so much more in the driver's seat
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that now it's like, okay, now what
reason do I have to go to you
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versus go to you versus go to you?
And again,
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some of that is going to be price.
And that does play a factor in it.
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But no matter how much people
have changed, people are always
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willing to pay a little bit more
for a better experience.
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It's just consistently so because the
premise of you pay what you get,
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you get what you pay for,
or rather, it it's just it still
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holds consistent even, you know,
a generation later.
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So that experience that you deliver
is oftentimes going to be the
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differentiator between whether
or not I'm going to choose this
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path in this particular company
to get this product or service,
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or I'm going to go down this
other path. Yeah. That's right.
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And so let's talk about how to
improve that experience. Right.
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00:09:07,850 --> 00:09:12,530, so just take any I don't know,
maybe you can pick a brand or
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pick a type of company there,
put an ad out there.
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And of course, that has to be to some
level of compelling and engaging
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to get people to click through, post, click post, ad,
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then talk about how you approach
improving that process. Yeah.
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It's like,
so you start with an analogy.
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It's like, going to a store,
right?
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So you, you might see an ad for
something, maybe a billboard or
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maybe even an online ad,
and you decide you're going to go to
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the store because you want to buy
this product, you want to buy this,
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this drill or this pair of shoes
or whatever the case is.
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Well, the minute you walk through
the doors, it's like, well, now,
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now I'm challenged because I
have to find the product that I
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was looking for. Right?
So, you know, how how is the store
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organized or things clearly labeled?
Are there people that help me
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proactively to guide me and direct
me to where it is, what I'll do?
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I need to go to to find this product, when I actually get there.
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Is it for the price that was
advertised?
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Does it have the features that I was
told it was going to have? Right.
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So all those different things that we
do in a physical world, the same
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thing happens in the digital world.
So you have clicked on the ad as
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a consumer because there's
something's been promised to you.
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A question is going to be answered.
A features have been displayed
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that you're interested in.
So you're clicking on that ad
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and you're expecting that
promise to be delivered.
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So I'm going to click on this ad
for this product.
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I expect that when I get there
I'm going to find that product
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on that page.
It's going to tell them, answer the
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question that was posed in the ad.
It's going to list the features
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that I was told it was going to
have and has.
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Obvious and straightforward as that
is, oftentimes that's not the case.
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and left to figure it out.
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Or, the ad talks about one thing.
You get to the landing page and
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it talks about something
completely different,
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and now you've caused friction.
Now it's like, okay, wait a second.
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This this isn't what I was expecting.
Yeah.
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00:11:11,130 --> 00:11:14,970, and again, it's one thing if you
walk into the store and you've made
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the hassle to drive 30 minutes to
get a parking space to go in there,
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you're going to spend a few
minutes kind of looking around,
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trying to find it.
You're getting frustrated,
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but the hassle of actually going
somewhere else is big.
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On the internet, all I have to do is
open up another tab or, you know,
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go back to the previous search and
say, yep, go to the next option.
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Like that's it. Right.
So that idea of how do you deliver
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on that click and how do you keep
that momentum going to keep that
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person going down that path,
answering those questions that,
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order to ultimately go all the way
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down that funnel and say, okay,
yeah, I'm going to transact.
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I'm going to put my credit card, I'm
going to click confirm. Yeah, okay.
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So what I hear you saying is first
setting the proper expectation
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and then removing any known or
feedback given friction,
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something comes to mind is an
interview I saw with Mr. Beast,
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a little while ago talking about,
you know, his success on YouTube.
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And they're asking like, you know,
what's the formula? What do we do?
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Like tell us and we'll just do it, and he said,
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it's actually pretty simple.
And it's not just a YouTube thing.
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00:12:23,340 --> 00:12:24,840, and it's very similar to
what you just said.
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It's kind of an obvious thing
where but not so obvious to us
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as marketers when we start
putting stuff together. Right?
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Because we get into this different
world where he said, okay,
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you create a thumbnail and you know,
these thumbnails,
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there is a little bit of a
formula to how they're currently
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operating and what gets a click.
But whatever expectation you set in
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that thumbnail, you need to, you need
to follow through on that expectation
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within the first five seconds.
So when they click it, you know,
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if if it says we're going to take
five cars and dump them into
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this lake, you know, and that's
what got you hooked. Well, okay.
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When you click, he's standing
there in front of the lake with
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the five cars, and he's saying,
we're going to take these five
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cars and send them in the lake.
But and he puts, you know,
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starts to tell a story,
but it's a little of a conflict
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and that captures your attention.
Before you know it you've watched
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three quarters of the video, right?
So I think, you know,
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here's somebody who's doing it on
the highest level from storytelling
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standpoint and a modern day
technology, modern day marketing.
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And what you're saying for just
average brands really should be
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following the same formula 100%.
And the beauty one of the beautiful
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things about the internet is it's
so easy to gather feedback about
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people and what they're doing, right.
So from its most basic form of
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just having general web analytics,
you know, putting Google Analytics on
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a website and measuring people's
activity to far more robust ways
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of gathering data, gathering
online feedback via online polls,
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or using tools that do session
recordings or heat maps.
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There's ways to to constantly do
research and say, okay, well,
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let me let me get a view of what kind
of experience people are having and
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get a sense based on that research,
of where are they having issues, what
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kinds of questions are they posing?
Why aren't they doing the things
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that I'm expecting them to do,
and then taking that information
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and saying, okay, how do how do
we create some ideas about how we
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solve these problems for people,
and then the ability to test that
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in real time and actually say,
did that work?
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Is that actually solving
problems for people?
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All those things can,
can really dramatically impact,
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00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:30,570, the business performance of
any of any company who puts those
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things into practice, because now
you're getting the most out of all
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those dollars you're spending to
drive people to your experience,
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and you're really maximizing that.
So now it's not just about driving
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revenue, which is important,
but it's about driving profit, right?
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It's about reducing your costs and
saying, how do we get more out of
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the money that we're spending?
So you're getting a better
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return on that investment? Yeah.
So you need to find out where
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those points of friction are.
So you need the right tools and maybe
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technology to help you do that.
You know, going back to your analogy
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of the in-person kind of Sears model, and even today in person,
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you know, savvy companies and
brands that want to know how they
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can improve that experience.
They're watching the flow of
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traffic in the store.
They're seeing someone get there
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and kind of scratch their head as
lost as to they're looking for
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something, they can't find it.
So translate that to online.
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That's really sounds like what you're
saying is you need to have the
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right tools with the heatmaps and,
you know, Google tag manager and
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looking at things, where are people
getting, hitting a hitch?
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Where are people getting,
you know, stopped in their tracks,
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and why are they stopping?
Why are they leaving this page?
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Why are they doing those things?
That's critical.
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That's very critical for for
brands today to know,
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I think even just to start,
before you start running a campaign,
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before you put together more, sophisticated work.
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Flo is just seeing.
What are people looking at currently
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and what are they not doing? Yeah.
And I mean, the smart companies
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have a framework in place to keep
doing that constantly. Right.
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Because they're getting a
constant influx of new people.
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They're putting up new products
and services.
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Competitors are making changes.
The market is changing.
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So you have to have a system where
you're getting consistent feedback
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because all those changes are
happening and you have to be able to
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measure and adapt, measure and adapt,
measure, adapt to all those changes.
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So people are getting that
framework in place to say,
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how are we constantly kind of
making sure we're monitoring this
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and understanding how people are
interacting so we can keep making
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those little tweaks and little
adjustments that allow people to
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more easily accomplish what they
want to accomplish and what we
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want them to accomplish, which is,
of course, doing business with us.
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Okay, so let's say you're having
a conversation with a VP,
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marketing, marketing director.
They're building a new campaign
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and they have Google Tag Manager
in place.
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Google analytics, they have some of
the fundamental things in place,
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and they are looking at some data,
but they want to do something a
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little bit more sophisticated.
And and it's going to start with
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an ad and it's going to end with,
I don't know, maybe that customer
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dumping into a nurture sequence or,
or ending up on a newsletter or maybe
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even a conversion potentially to,
to a purchase, but they're going
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to launch this new thing.
What kind of direction or advice
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would you give them to not step in
any potholes, right, right out of
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the gate, you know, I mean, what
would you tell them to to consider
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before they launch that campaign?
I think the biggest thing is,
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you know what?
What is the ultimate goal of the
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campaign, right.
In terms of obviously it's for
308
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someone to buy.
But, you know, is it is the
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campaign about market share?
Is the campaign about,
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you know, upsell, cross-sell.
Is it about order value? Right.
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So what is it you're trying to
accomplish.
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And then make a connection between
that and what the person needs
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in order to kind of make meet
that goal that you're trying to
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get them to accomplish. Right.
So what's what's that connection.
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So in order for someone to make
that decision, what would they need
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to know in that purchase cycle, some of that's going to be,
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you know,
going to fall back on that person is,
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you know, kind of best practice.
But again, that's where a lot of
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that research comes into play.
Understanding who your customer is,
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understanding what their drivers
are and their motivations. Right.
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And then taking that and then
leveraging that to say, well,
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if these are the questions they
need answered in order to make this
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kind of decision, how do we then
create the content that's needed?
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And then where are the best
places to inject that content
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and to deliver it to them?
Because you can't give them all
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00:18:25,810 --> 00:18:28,090
in one shot. Right?
So some of it's going to be on
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the landing page, some of it's
going to be, as you mentioned in
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the nurture emails, some of it is
even going to be in the ad. Right.
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So what are the most high level
questions?
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That's kind of top of the funnel.
And then what are the more the
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deeper questions, the more detailed
questions they need answered right
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before that point of conversion.
Those things are going to be
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deeper in the funnel.
So you're really just trying to
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say consumer.
Here's all the information you need.
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Let's figure out what order we
should put that information in in a
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way that makes logical sense for
you so that you're consistently
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answering this question.
We're knocking down each barrier,
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and eventually we're getting you to
the point of conversion, yeah.
339
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And we tell people always be testing,
right?
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So yes, there's always an opportunity
to say, well, there's a couple of
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different ways we can look at this.
Well, great, let's test it and
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let's see how people react.
Right. Let's understand that.
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And there's different kinds of tests
for different kinds of scenarios.
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Whether you're trying to run a sale,
whether it's a longer term campaign.
345
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Right.
There's all kinds of different tools.
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It's just like building a house.
You have to know the right tool
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for the right job in order to
accomplish the ultimate goal. Yeah.
348
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You know, so if we get a little
bit more nuance to it, talking
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about a specific part of that,
what maybe the most critical
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part was that the landing page,
is it the, you know, the form,
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you know, is it what is it what's
maybe the most critical part of it?
352
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And then how would you advise on
initial testing? Is it okay?
353
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You've got the messaging, you've
got imagery, you've got, you know,
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the the technical things in place.
What would you tell them to think
355
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about testing first. Is it copy.
Is it you know graphics.
356
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Is it links to certain places or
how would you direct them.
357
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No good questions, so I think a lot of times you're
358
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going to start you need a baseline.
So you're just going to start with,
359
00:20:10,860 --> 00:20:15,060, a lot of times it's best practice
of based on whatever information you
360
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already have on hand. Right, right.
And that's going to be your
361
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starting point.
And then you're just going to
362
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change and iterate from that. Yeah, in terms of the part that's the
363
00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:26,520
most important, that's hard.
That's hard to to answer because like
364
00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:29,520
every part of it's important. Right.
So again, let's go back to the
365
00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:32,460
story analogy real quick.
If I go into the store and I
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can't even find the product I'm
looking for, well then finding
367
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the product is most important.
If I can, if I can find the product.
368
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But then I get to the checkout
line and they're all full,
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and I'm not going to stand in
line for 30 minutes to do it.
370
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Well, then getting the checkout
line shorter is most important.
371
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Or adding, you know, self-checkout
is most important, right?
372
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So every point of friction kind
of matters.
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But typically where we like to
kind of focus on at the beginning,
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if at all possible,
is the place closest to conversion.
375
00:20:59,220 --> 00:21:01,140, because essentially that's
the lowest hanging fruit.
376
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Like those are the people who
have gone to the store,
377
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gotten the product,
put it in their cart or in their
378
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hand like they've gotten in line,
like they're ready to buy it. Right?
379
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Like you even have to convince
them they're, you know,
380
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this is what they want.
So how do we make it as easy for
381
00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:17,460
them as possible to swipe their
credit card and go, right?
382
00:21:17,460 --> 00:21:19,530
If you're if you're going to
have a long line at checkout and
383
00:21:19,530 --> 00:21:21,630
someone's just going to say,
like, I don't have time for this,
384
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and I'm frustrated and I just put
it down on the counter and leave,
385
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just leave the store.
Well, that's like giving money
386
00:21:26,580 --> 00:21:29,280
away because the person wanted it.
So a lot of times when we start
387
00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:32,160
testing is we look at those
points very close to conversion,
388
00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:35,100
those people who really just need
to get over that last hump because
389
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that's the lowest hanging fruit, and another reason that's,
390
00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:41,340
that's a great place to start is
because all points converge there.
391
00:21:41,610 --> 00:21:44,220
So whether someone's coming from
direct traffic, whether they're
392
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coming from organic search, whether
they're coming from paid search,
393
00:21:47,010 --> 00:21:50,760
a display display ad and email,
whatever the case is, if you can
394
00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:53,880
get that friction eliminated,
all those channels are going to
395
00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:57,240
benefit as opposed to maybe focusing
on a landing page, which is, well,
396
00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:59,760
we're just using that for paid
search, and that's important.
397
00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:03,300
But hey, if there's a way to
focus on something that benefits
398
00:22:03,300 --> 00:22:06,690
all channels, everything we're
doing across the board, well,
399
00:22:06,690 --> 00:22:09,000
you're just going to see the return
on that investment that much quicker.
400
00:22:09,510 --> 00:22:11,970
Yep. That makes total sense.
And I like that idea.
401
00:22:11,970 --> 00:22:15,570
It's kind of a good direction to say
start at the bottom of the workflow,
402
00:22:15,570 --> 00:22:19,170
bottom of the funnel, and work back
up because you're going to benefit
403
00:22:19,170 --> 00:22:23,490
yourself from your insights gathered
all the way back up. Exactly.
404
00:22:23,610 --> 00:22:26,730, and you might even end up
with sort of a scaled,
405
00:22:26,730 --> 00:22:28,740
you know, version of the
insights that you gain.
406
00:22:28,740 --> 00:22:31,200
Because when you get back to the
all the way back up to the ad,
407
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:35,010
well, now you have all this insight
to create new and better ads,
408
00:22:35,580 --> 00:22:38,820, along the way, though. Okay.
So what about the technical side
409
00:22:38,820 --> 00:22:40,890
of things?
What kind of technical potholes
410
00:22:40,890 --> 00:22:45,030
can they usually get stuck in
when they're trying to build or
411
00:22:45,030 --> 00:22:48,480
optimize a campaign?
Yeah, I mean, a lot of it has to
412
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:51,780
do with the fact that,
when you get from that crossover
413
00:22:51,780 --> 00:22:56,490
into this is what we for marketing
want to do and how do we actually
414
00:22:56,490 --> 00:22:59,670
execute against that? Right.
So if you're dependent, for example,
415
00:22:59,670 --> 00:23:02,790
upon an IT team, you've got a
couple of barriers there. Right.
416
00:23:02,790 --> 00:23:07,500
And they're not necessarily barriers
that are a problem with the
417
00:23:07,500 --> 00:23:10,170
IT team in and of themselves.
They're just barriers to maybe
418
00:23:10,470 --> 00:23:13,980
just doing business in general.
So first of all, can we effectively
419
00:23:13,980 --> 00:23:17,640
and clearly articulate to it or to
whoever your technical team is?
420
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:19,500
This is what we want to happen,
right?
421
00:23:19,500 --> 00:23:22,140
Because marketers tend to think
one way technical people tend to
422
00:23:22,140 --> 00:23:24,600
think a very different way.
So if you're speaking two different
423
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:28,170
languages, is that translation
accurate enough to get across to
424
00:23:28,170 --> 00:23:31,080
them what it is you want to do?
So that can be an issue.
425
00:23:31,260 --> 00:23:34,260
Technical teams are typically
strained so there can be a
426
00:23:34,260 --> 00:23:36,090
bottleneck.
So it's like, hey, I want to launch
427
00:23:36,090 --> 00:23:38,460
this campaign in a couple of weeks.
And they tell you, look,
428
00:23:38,460 --> 00:23:41,220
we got a list of things a couple
of months long, I can add you to
429
00:23:41,220 --> 00:23:43,560
the list. We'll get to it. Right.
So there's there's a lot of
430
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:45,450
bottlenecks there that can
happen as well.
431
00:23:45,450 --> 00:23:49,080
So it's about saying how do we work
together to be able to make sure
432
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:52,230
that we understand each other,
that we properly prioritize these
433
00:23:52,230 --> 00:23:55,620
things for the overall benefit of
the business, and that we have
434
00:23:55,620 --> 00:23:59,850
the right tools in place to be
able to move with some speed and
435
00:23:59,850 --> 00:24:03,210
have some speed to market. Right.
So if you are, for example,
436
00:24:03,210 --> 00:24:06,750
going to be doing some AB testing
or some personalization, what are
437
00:24:06,750 --> 00:24:10,110
those tool sets that you can have in
place that allow you to do that?
438
00:24:10,110 --> 00:24:12,930
Do you have those specialized
development resources that can
439
00:24:12,930 --> 00:24:14,940
help you support those
particular tool sets?
440
00:24:15,120 --> 00:24:19,050
That way you can say, number one,
okay, this is what we want to do.
441
00:24:19,050 --> 00:24:22,860
We can execute this more quickly.
But then number two, once we execute
442
00:24:22,860 --> 00:24:26,580
it we have the results. We say okay.
This works better than this.
443
00:24:26,610 --> 00:24:29,280
Now you're able to go back to it
and say, hey, it.
444
00:24:29,430 --> 00:24:32,070
We want to make this change
because this is going to work
445
00:24:32,070 --> 00:24:35,370
better for the business.
And here are the results that show
446
00:24:35,370 --> 00:24:37,980
this is going to work better for
the business. This is the impact.
447
00:24:38,010 --> 00:24:41,490
Well, now it's like easier for it to
prioritize right now that now the CIO
448
00:24:41,490 --> 00:24:44,850
is in a position where he can say, I
should move this up the list because
449
00:24:44,850 --> 00:24:47,970
this is going to have a direct
impact on our bottom line. Yeah.
450
00:24:47,970 --> 00:24:50,820
As opposed to I should move this
up the list because so-and-so is
451
00:24:50,820 --> 00:24:53,730
complaining about it and they just
happen to be the loudest one,
452
00:24:53,730 --> 00:24:57,600
or so-and-so got to their boss first.
So, you know, the CMO is saying
453
00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:00,360
this is more important to the CRO,
saying this is more important.
454
00:25:00,360 --> 00:25:03,030
Well, now it's business related.
Now we're all on the same page.
455
00:25:03,150 --> 00:25:06,330
Now we're doing stuff that's going to
affect all of us. Yeah, I like that.
456
00:25:06,330 --> 00:25:11,250
I think that's the thread of
business metrics, business results.
457
00:25:11,250 --> 00:25:15,690
And you know, prioritizing those
is is a great place to, to land.
458
00:25:16,050 --> 00:25:20,280, I've found that it is is a bit
usually a big bottleneck because
459
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:22,410
they're doing what they do well.
And a lot of times it doesn't
460
00:25:22,410 --> 00:25:25,440
translate to marketing, and I think that a lot of times,
461
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:29,790
just my own opinion, marketing needs
to start to, find and build,
462
00:25:30,210 --> 00:25:33,720, resources and tools that they
can bring into marketing that are
463
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:37,560
owned and controlled by marketing,
that are not sanctioned by, you know,
464
00:25:37,590 --> 00:25:43,500
it because it allows marketers to
move quicker and test more often,
465
00:25:43,500 --> 00:25:46,620
without there being the bottlenecks, so, you know, I don't know
466
00:25:46,620 --> 00:25:49,770
what people's situations are,
but I know that's been my experience.
467
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:55,110
There is a big kind of divide in
terms of, discipline or train of
468
00:25:55,110 --> 00:26:00,150
thought when you think about,
what an IT department or person's
469
00:26:00,150 --> 00:26:03,450
there to do and what a marketer is
there to do, or really anyone else
470
00:26:03,450 --> 00:26:06,210
that's involved with technology.
Because unfortunate truth is
471
00:26:06,210 --> 00:26:10,320
that we're all here.
Almost every facet of a of an
472
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,930
organization has some form of
technology.
473
00:26:13,260 --> 00:26:16,620, so it's really got to come
outside of it and got to be more
474
00:26:17,100 --> 00:26:20,370
domain focused, you know,
475
00:26:20,370 --> 00:26:23,880
just my $0.02 to add to that.
No, I think you're 100% right.
476
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,970
I mean, I think you have to work
with it as partners to create
477
00:26:26,970 --> 00:26:29,190
the right foundation, right,
and the right kind of framework
478
00:26:29,190 --> 00:26:32,130
for what you're putting in place.
But if you have that solid foundation
479
00:26:32,130 --> 00:26:34,920
and framework, then it's like,
okay, marketing, you use this,
480
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:37,950
you guys go and do this and you
rock n roll, we're going to do
481
00:26:37,950 --> 00:26:41,490
our thing over here and we'll be
able to move forward and faster.
482
00:26:41,490 --> 00:26:45,150
And once you're in that, once you
have that place of alignment,
483
00:26:45,150 --> 00:26:49,650
now everyone's able to accomplish it,
not in silos but in communication
484
00:26:49,650 --> 00:26:53,310
of like, okay, we've set you up
for success to do these things
485
00:26:53,310 --> 00:26:56,310
that we know are important to you,
while allowing us to do things
486
00:26:56,310 --> 00:26:58,830
that we know are important to us,
but we're all moving in the same
487
00:26:58,830 --> 00:27:00,840
direction to keep the business
moving forward.
488
00:27:01,050 --> 00:27:04,290
What sometimes happens,
as you kind of alluded to, is that,
489
00:27:04,590 --> 00:27:07,590, marketing will go off and say,
look, I can't wait for it anymore.
490
00:27:07,590 --> 00:27:09,930
I'm going to do my own thing,
and they do it in a vacuum.
491
00:27:10,350 --> 00:27:14,430
And then eventually, because it's
technical, it has to get involved.
492
00:27:14,430 --> 00:27:17,910
Yeah, but now you've done it behind
their back. Now it's too late. Right?
493
00:27:17,910 --> 00:27:20,280
And now they're going to either
messing something up or they're
494
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:23,700
going to block you out of spite or,
you know, or a number of other things
495
00:27:23,700 --> 00:27:26,760
are going to happen because you
weren't good partners in saying what
496
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,580
was the right foundation, a framework
that works for everyone, or.
497
00:27:29,580 --> 00:27:32,220
They have wild success and they
look at it and say, see,
498
00:27:32,220 --> 00:27:39,630
I told you so. Yeah. Right. Yeah. No.
So let's go back to the customer
499
00:27:39,630 --> 00:27:43,320
experience, the customer journey
and workflow of a campaign.
500
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:47,820
And maybe you can give us some
like kind of current day tips or
501
00:27:47,820 --> 00:27:50,130
tactics that you've seen from
content standpoint.
502
00:27:50,130 --> 00:27:53,910
So if you're building a campaign what
do you see that's working right now.
503
00:27:53,910 --> 00:27:57,960
Is it is it heavy on images or
graphics or videos or is it,
504
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,410
you know, having a landing page set
up a certain way, you know, what are
505
00:28:01,410 --> 00:28:05,340
you seeing that is working? Yeah, you know,
506
00:28:05,340 --> 00:28:07,560
a lot of times it depends.
The specifics of it depend on
507
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:09,990
the brand and the product.
But some things that are pretty
508
00:28:09,990 --> 00:28:12,900
consistent is, you know,
messaging is super important.
509
00:28:13,020 --> 00:28:16,740, there's a fallacy that people
don't read. People do read. Oh, yeah.
510
00:28:16,740 --> 00:28:19,560
They just read what they want to
read. Like. That's right. Right.
511
00:28:20,370 --> 00:28:24,180, so that's super important.
And having that symmetry between the
512
00:28:24,180 --> 00:28:27,720
messaging on the ad to the messaging
that gets delivered after they
513
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:31,170
click on the ad is super important.
The more symmetry we see between
514
00:28:31,170 --> 00:28:35,340
that messaging,
the better the results typically are.
515
00:28:35,580 --> 00:28:38,280, because it's because you're
setting, again, when you see the ad,
516
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,550
you're setting an expectation by
what the ad says and what it shows.
517
00:28:41,550 --> 00:28:43,800
And if you're able to mirror
that expectation when you get to
518
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:46,350
the landing page,
it's a it's a sense of reassurance
519
00:28:46,350 --> 00:28:49,110
that I've gotten to the right place.
This is talking about the same
520
00:28:49,110 --> 00:28:50,970
thing that it was just talking
about in the ad.
521
00:28:50,970 --> 00:28:54,150
I'm seeing the same imagery that
I just saw on the ad.
522
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,280
It's a sense of reassurance I'm
in the right place.
523
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:58,020
So that's a big one that we see
a lot.
524
00:28:58,050 --> 00:29:01,350
Having that symmetry across ad
creative all the way to that
525
00:29:01,350 --> 00:29:06,300
entry or landing page. Creative, another one we see, very
526
00:29:06,300 --> 00:29:10,950
often is the importance of having
calls to action in the right place.
527
00:29:11,340 --> 00:29:15,270, so keeping that ability to
take action, in a place often
528
00:29:15,270 --> 00:29:18,000
above the fold is super important,
529
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,660
so people can see where they need to
go in order to take that next step.
530
00:29:22,050 --> 00:29:24,840, you don't want that call to
action to get too buried in.
531
00:29:24,930 --> 00:29:28,500
The process, and then as we mentioned before,
532
00:29:28,590 --> 00:29:33,060, recognizing that even though
you want that person to make that
533
00:29:33,060 --> 00:29:36,570
decision and by all in that one
single session, that one visit,
534
00:29:36,570 --> 00:29:39,210
that's not how people often buy.
Again,
535
00:29:39,210 --> 00:29:42,330
depending on the product or service.
So you have to account for that and
536
00:29:42,330 --> 00:29:46,680
say, even though my primary call
to action may be to add this to
537
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:50,580
my cart to check out to purchase,
I might need a secondary call to
538
00:29:50,580 --> 00:29:53,580
action like, you know,
sign up for our emails to hear more
539
00:29:53,580 --> 00:29:56,490
about our products and services, to learn more about this
540
00:29:56,490 --> 00:29:58,380
particular product,
wherever the case is,
541
00:29:58,380 --> 00:30:01,740
so that you're able to say, well,
that's that's a softer commitment.
542
00:30:02,220 --> 00:30:05,820
You know, I'm not ready to to hit by,
but yeah, I'll, I'll sign up to
543
00:30:05,820 --> 00:30:08,790
get some more information.
And now you have a chance to be able
544
00:30:08,790 --> 00:30:12,420
to reach out proactively and deliver
to them a little bit more content,
545
00:30:12,420 --> 00:30:15,690
a little bit more information and
chunks, maybe even to test some
546
00:30:15,690 --> 00:30:18,000
different things and different value
propositions with a product or
547
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,510
service and see how they react to
those different things and then see,
548
00:30:21,510 --> 00:30:23,760
okay, that's that's the one that
pushed them over the line,
549
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,070
and that's the one that got them
to actually convert.
550
00:30:26,100 --> 00:30:29,820
So leveraging those kind of multiple
calls to actions of those primary
551
00:30:29,820 --> 00:30:34,080
and secondary calls to action, so
that person isn't, feeling like
552
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:36,420
they have to make a decision right
then and there or else. That's it.
553
00:30:36,420 --> 00:30:41,190
In their lost. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And you know, this is where,
554
00:30:41,550 --> 00:30:45,810
you know, planning your marketing
out and having a longer range or
555
00:30:45,810 --> 00:30:49,860
a broader marketing strategy.
It comes into play, I think,
556
00:30:49,860 --> 00:30:54,120
because I think a lot of business
leaders who are directing
557
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:59,010
marketing teams, you know,
that are external for marketing but
558
00:30:59,010 --> 00:31:03,930
have influence or they can get caught
into this cycle of short term,
559
00:31:03,930 --> 00:31:08,250
kind of ROI and that kind of thing.
And they end up putting market
560
00:31:08,250 --> 00:31:10,260
department in a,
in a tricky situation where they're
561
00:31:10,260 --> 00:31:15,330
chasing their tail and, you know,
longer, kind of bigger view.
562
00:31:15,330 --> 00:31:18,870
Our vision is, is and I'm saying
this more for marketers to kind of
563
00:31:18,870 --> 00:31:22,740
just remember that this is true.
And, you know, they kind of take this
564
00:31:22,740 --> 00:31:25,440
back to those people and remind them,
like, we really need to be
565
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:30,420
thinking in terms of the parts
of the of the buying journey.
566
00:31:30,420 --> 00:31:33,330
You know, we need to think about
getting awareness from a certain
567
00:31:33,330 --> 00:31:35,400
percentage of the market.
And that's all we're going to do
568
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:38,040
is get their awareness.
A couple of them might buy,
569
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:40,350
a couple of them might follow,
but mostly we're just letting
570
00:31:40,350 --> 00:31:43,620
them know nurture.
Who are the people who are nurturing
571
00:31:43,620 --> 00:31:46,230
and what do we want them to do?
You're talking about having to call
572
00:31:46,230 --> 00:31:50,040
to actions as a testing point.
I think that's that's that's good.
573
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:52,560
You know, it's like, well,
if they're not buying,
574
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:56,040
then what else could they do, and then of course the bottom
575
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,250
of the funnel starting there.
That's that's a good way, I think,
576
00:31:59,250 --> 00:32:02,790
for marketers to appease,
leadership and say, you know, hey,
577
00:32:02,790 --> 00:32:06,540
we're making some quick wins.
But since we did this, give us a
578
00:32:06,540 --> 00:32:09,480
longer leash to work back up the
funnel and explain to them that we
579
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:12,390
need to do more nurturing so we can
have more opportunities to convert.
580
00:32:13,110 --> 00:32:16,620, you know, I just think that
it can get it can get lost,
581
00:32:17,220 --> 00:32:20,640
it can get lost on them.
And it can be overwhelming to
582
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,640
think that, oh, I have to just
constantly be generating sales.
583
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,970
And again, depending on product
service, you might actually have
584
00:32:26,970 --> 00:32:29,550
to be using marketing to
generate sales to some degree.
585
00:32:29,550 --> 00:32:32,820
But a lot of the times it's not.
It's it's taking a longer view and,
586
00:32:32,820 --> 00:32:35,280
and thinking about what is it,
what can we create that meets
587
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:39,240
them where they are now.
100%, I think, to your point,
588
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:42,750
you get so shortsighted about this
next campaign and how it's performing
589
00:32:42,750 --> 00:32:45,990
that you forget your ultimate goal
here is to drive a relationship
590
00:32:45,990 --> 00:32:50,040
and build that lifetime value.
Because once you get a customer,
591
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:53,880
if you can get them to come back,
right, that's so much cheaper than
592
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:56,040
it is to get someone net new.
That's right.
593
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:59,130, so there's customer acquisition,
which is super important,
594
00:32:59,130 --> 00:33:02,400
but there's also customer retention.
And that's where the experience
595
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:06,540
really comes into play of once I've
got them and they've transacted
596
00:33:06,540 --> 00:33:09,750
how do I build that relationship?
How do I get them to come back?
597
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:11,220
How do I make it?
How do I delight them?
598
00:33:11,220 --> 00:33:15,240
How do I make this easier for them?
And that's all long term thinking,
599
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:17,100
right?
That's long term thinking about,
600
00:33:17,100 --> 00:33:20,520
you know, customer profiles and how
I'm personalizing the experience now
601
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:23,310
based on what I know about them,
what they've told me,
602
00:33:23,310 --> 00:33:25,950
what they've looked at, what
they've bought in the past. Right.
603
00:33:25,950 --> 00:33:30,780
So with every interaction, you're
able to, again, in the longer term,
604
00:33:30,780 --> 00:33:32,940
build more of a personal relationship
because you're learning more and
605
00:33:32,940 --> 00:33:35,910
more about them and you're able
to do a better job of saying,
606
00:33:35,910 --> 00:33:38,610
I know you're not interested in this.
I know you're not interested in this.
607
00:33:38,610 --> 00:33:40,950
This is what you're most likely
to be interested in.
608
00:33:40,950 --> 00:33:43,470
And it's like, yeah,
that's exactly what I need. Great.
609
00:33:43,470 --> 00:33:45,510
Let's let's make this next
transaction. Right.
610
00:33:45,510 --> 00:33:48,960
So thinking about it longer term.
And you know, when you're talking
611
00:33:48,990 --> 00:33:51,840
to an executive that's really
what you want to hear anyway.
612
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:54,450
Because that's when an executive
is getting paid.
613
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:58,830
Incentivize for an executive
especially at a larger organization,
614
00:33:58,830 --> 00:34:02,700
is not getting paid on how many
sales we made on this campaign
615
00:34:02,700 --> 00:34:05,880
that we ran for four weeks. Right.
They're getting paid for like,
616
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:09,390
how were their earnings this year
over the earnings projections for
617
00:34:09,390 --> 00:34:12,450
next year? Right. That's right.
And those are longer term metrics
618
00:34:12,450 --> 00:34:15,300
that are going to require things like
profitability and lifetime value
619
00:34:15,300 --> 00:34:17,820
to be taken into consideration,
not just what happened in this four
620
00:34:17,820 --> 00:34:21,120
week sale. Such a great point.
Yeah, that's such a great point
621
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:24,240
to translate, and you know, you,
622
00:34:24,240 --> 00:34:25,670
you talk about.
Now we've been talking about
623
00:34:25,670 --> 00:34:29,360
mostly about, you know,
after the click of the ad and now
624
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,390
kind of what you're talking about is
after the sale and that experience
625
00:34:32,390 --> 00:34:35,600
that happens after the sale,
how much do you think about making
626
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:41,150
the after click experience match
with the after sale experience?
627
00:34:41,450 --> 00:34:45,590
We think about that a lot, right?
Because with every interaction we
628
00:34:45,590 --> 00:34:49,850
want to, you know, segment and
get down to how close we can get
629
00:34:49,850 --> 00:34:52,790
to that person on a 1 to 1 basis.
And sometimes you can get, you know,
630
00:34:52,790 --> 00:34:56,210
pretty close to 1 to 1, especially
with some modern technology and
631
00:34:56,210 --> 00:35:00,290
AI and things like that.
But, you want to keep the
632
00:35:00,290 --> 00:35:04,010
overall kind of architecture of the
experience relatively consistent so
633
00:35:04,010 --> 00:35:07,040
people can get used to it. Right?
Like you probably have a local
634
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:09,860
supermarket and you probably
know that you go there enough
635
00:35:09,860 --> 00:35:11,510
and it's like,
I know exactly where the milk is.
636
00:35:11,510 --> 00:35:14,480
If I need to go grab some milk,
I know where the eggs are. Right?
637
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:16,910
There's there's there's comfort
to that.
638
00:35:17,030 --> 00:35:18,560
And you want to maintain that
comfort.
639
00:35:18,740 --> 00:35:21,650
But with the internet, we have
the ability to take that comfort
640
00:35:21,650 --> 00:35:26,000
to the next level and say, hey,
I know Lee likes this brand of eggs,
641
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:29,510
so it's like the supermarket putting
it right at at eye level for you
642
00:35:29,510 --> 00:35:31,610
every time you walk into the store.
Amazing, right?
643
00:35:31,610 --> 00:35:34,280
And it's just like, I know where
the eggs are. Oh that's perfect.
644
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:36,530
You know, I don't have to go
kind of digging for, you know,
645
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:39,200
why is. That not happening?
Why is that not happening? Yeah.
646
00:35:40,430 --> 00:35:44,630
Maybe one day.
But that's what you can do online,
647
00:35:44,630 --> 00:35:46,100
right?
You can you can take that that
648
00:35:46,100 --> 00:35:48,890
that consistent structure.
And then you can position your
649
00:35:48,890 --> 00:35:51,110
products and services within
that structure to say,
650
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:54,350
here's the next best choice for you
based on what we know about you.
651
00:35:54,350 --> 00:35:58,250
So we really want to provide that
consistency and improve the overall,
652
00:35:58,580 --> 00:36:01,490, the overall flow of the
overall structure.
653
00:36:01,490 --> 00:36:04,070
But then we also want to tweak that
and say, okay, well how do we segment
654
00:36:04,070 --> 00:36:07,790
that down and how do we position
things better for new versus new
655
00:36:07,790 --> 00:36:10,640
versus returning visitors or,
you know, maybe based on
656
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,850
geography at a high level.
And then as we get to know about you,
657
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:16,580
you know, a frequent customer,
a customer of this type of product
658
00:36:16,580 --> 00:36:19,340
or service or service line,
and how do we continue to kind of
659
00:36:19,340 --> 00:36:23,030
tweak that and play with that?
Yeah, that's as amazing.
660
00:36:23,030 --> 00:36:27,080
Now you've got me thinking about
how my customer experience at
661
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:31,820
the grocery store could be. Yes.
Just the same thing I bought
662
00:36:31,820 --> 00:36:34,160
last time or no,
I want to see more options.
663
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:38,960
And, you know, actually, now that I
said it, Instacart and those type
664
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:42,350
of experiences kind of provide a
little bit of that where you can
665
00:36:42,350 --> 00:36:44,840
you can just kind of click. Yeah.
What we did last week for the
666
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:47,810
most part, so you're starting to see a
667
00:36:47,810 --> 00:36:51,620
crossover in the physical and the
virtual being kind of the same,
668
00:36:51,620 --> 00:36:56,180
where a lot of the, the accoutrements
of the virtual world are now being
669
00:36:56,180 --> 00:37:00,410
pulled into the physical world, and, and there's a lot
670
00:37:00,410 --> 00:37:03,830
of benefit for that,
I think not not just I think I
671
00:37:03,830 --> 00:37:07,040
like how you're how you think.
Let's go old school and think
672
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:10,340
about how how do we operate as
humans in the physical world.
673
00:37:10,340 --> 00:37:12,680
Now, let's translate that to the
virtual world.
674
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:16,010, and you're starting to see that,
that full cycle at this point,
675
00:37:16,010 --> 00:37:18,650
too. Yeah.
It's it's the exact same psychology,
676
00:37:18,650 --> 00:37:20,120
right?
I mean, it's the same brains
677
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:22,340
working the same way.
It's just, you know, you're just
678
00:37:22,340 --> 00:37:24,950
all you're doing is making a
small translation for the medium.
679
00:37:24,950 --> 00:37:28,160
But the things that affect you,
the things that motivates you,
680
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:31,460
the things that caused you
uncertainty are still there to
681
00:37:31,460 --> 00:37:34,280
same psychological triggers.
And all you're doing is trying
682
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:38,270
to understand how is this
psychological trigger,
683
00:37:38,270 --> 00:37:41,690
if it's a negative one manifesting
itself in the digital experience,
684
00:37:41,690 --> 00:37:44,480
and then how do I remove that,
or how do I address that or deal with
685
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:48,410
it so that I'm removing that fear, I'm incentivizing that
686
00:37:48,410 --> 00:37:50,300
motivation. Right.
And I'm moving them in the same
687
00:37:50,300 --> 00:37:53,930
direction. Yeah. Love it. Yeah.
This this has been a great
688
00:37:53,930 --> 00:37:56,120
conversation.
It's, you know,
689
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:59,810
there's a lot here for lots of
people in the organization.
690
00:37:59,810 --> 00:38:03,140
And, you know, I think we've touched
on a couple different roles and
691
00:38:03,140 --> 00:38:07,070
the way they should be thinking
about customer experience,
692
00:38:07,070 --> 00:38:11,660
internally and externally with the
customer, so so thanks for that.
693
00:38:11,660 --> 00:38:14,210
Yeah. No problem.
Thank you for having just a
694
00:38:14,210 --> 00:38:16,490
great conversation.
I love talking about this stuff.
695
00:38:16,490 --> 00:38:20,480
I'm passionate about making sure that
people, get away from thinking
696
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:23,390
that the the ad platforms are the
answer to all their problems and,
697
00:38:23,870 --> 00:38:27,590
and really just kind of investing in
the experience that's going to have,
698
00:38:27,590 --> 00:38:29,420
you know, it's going to lift all
the boats, right?
699
00:38:29,420 --> 00:38:31,490
It's just the rising tide that's
going to lift all the boats.
700
00:38:31,490 --> 00:38:33,800
That's right. Well, yeah.
Thanks again for being on.
701
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:36,680
If we want to send people your
way to get connected with smart
702
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:39,740
Panda Labs or you directly,
where should we send them?
703
00:38:39,740 --> 00:38:43,010
Yeah, they can certainly check
us out at Smart Panel labs.com.
704
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:46,460
Or they can check me out on LinkedIn.
They can search by my name.
705
00:38:46,460 --> 00:38:49,340
I suspect I'm probably the only
do so on LinkedIn.
706
00:38:49,340 --> 00:38:51,650
So yes,
I'm pretty pretty easy to find.
707
00:38:51,650 --> 00:38:54,950
And, certainly get some some
more insights into how I think
708
00:38:54,950 --> 00:38:56,780
and feel about things.
And if that jives,
709
00:38:56,780 --> 00:38:59,330
they can feel free to reach out.
That's great. Thanks again.
710
00:38:59,330 --> 00:39:01,700
Shamir, we'll have to have you back.
Thank you so much.
711
00:39:01,790 --> 00:39:02,660
I look forward to it.