Going from AI Engineer to Outdoor Tour Guide with Astrid Jackson, Owner of Venture Outdoors Florida

Join our host, Lee Murray, in the latest episode of the CEO Series. In this episode, Astrid Jackson, owner of Venture Outdoor Florida, shares her journey from a tech career to starting her outdoor adventure business, driven by a diagnosis of osteoarthritis. They discuss Astrid's passion for providing unique experiences, the challenges of marketing as a solo entrepreneur, and her commitment to environmental conservation. This episode offers valuable insights for all, especially those thinking of transitioning careers.



Watch the full episode: https://youtu.be/i2vh4qpDiIw

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Astrid - https://www.linkedin.com/in/astridjackson/

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Astrid Jackson (00:00:00) - I was diagnosed with osteoarthritis early on. And, you know, at that point I started thinking, well, you know, how much longer will I be able to do all these things if I'm waiting until I'm retired to do all these things, I may not be able to do it anymore.

Lee Murray (00:00:19) - Hey, before we jump into this episode, I just wanted to say a few words about this episode. This is sort of a sideline from the CEO series we're doing in my research, looking for business owner CEOs to to interview. I found, Astrid Jackson of go, venture Outdoor, Florida, which you'll see in a minute. And I have to say, you know, this this interview was is very different than a lot that I've had recently in a, in a very unique and good way. But I wanted to sort of prepare you for it as you're listening to it or watching it. But when I started exploring growth over a year and a half ago, I started it sort of because I was having all of these type of conversations with business owners and executives and consultants at coffee shops on zoom, just all these conversations that I thought, hey, these could be really beneficial for someone else to listen to.

Lee Murray (00:01:14) - And this was one of them, you know, this was one of those that wasn't really as scripted as some of the other ones. I mean, none of my podcasts are scripted, but, you know, I have an outline. We're going through it. I'm trying to provide as much value in certain strategic ways for the audience as possible. And this one, we had an outline and we went through it, but it just seemed much more raw. You know, this is this was this was one of those conversations that I would have had at a coffee shop with a small business owner and just talking about the passion that they had from going from this, this type of work to another and seeing it play out the learning curve of just being an entrepreneur and trying to grow their business. I mean, if you're an entrepreneur, small business owner and you want to see what it looks like with, you know, conversation about two entrepreneurs sitting together, which you probably had lots of those. This is it.

Lee Murray (00:02:06) - So this is a little bit of a departure from the CEO series, but I just thought I would go ahead and post it because this is this is such a great, conversation. So enjoy. Welcome back to Exploring Growth. Today we have the opportunity to go outside and explore your unique kind of business. I'd like to welcome on Astra Jackson of Venture Outdoors Florida. Welcome to Exploring Growth.

Astrid Jackson (00:02:31) - Thank you.

Lee Murray (00:02:33) - yeah. I mean, I love getting outside of my family. I take an annual camping trip with my son, and I ride their bikes with two of my three kids, the older kids. so when I came across your business, I thought, well, this would be a fun conversation to talk with someone who goes outdoors for a living.

Astrid Jackson (00:02:51) - Yep. Yeah. that's actually kind of true. It's obviously I must love the outdoors, otherwise I wouldn't be doing it. But. Yeah. So, I think everybody should go outside and enjoy what nature has to offer.

Lee Murray (00:03:10) - Yeah. And, you know, with the onset of Covid a few years ago, that sort of forced a lot of people to get outside because they really didn't have anything else to do except for sit inside.

Astrid Jackson (00:03:21) - Yeah, that is true, though. unfortunately, I think and maybe that's also true for the people that have been going out before. What I find is important that we conduct ourselves properly. You know, we are going out in the outdoors. There's wildlife. And we also want to keep it clean for everybody else to enjoy. And I, I think I have noticed that with Covid, more people going outside, that there's actually a lot more garbage out there. And so, I do think it's important that we educate, you know, proper etiquette being outside. And that's part of what I'm hoping to do with my business.

Lee Murray (00:04:03) - I like that. Yeah. it would make sense that a lot of people who aren't have not naturally gone outside, started to go outside and didn't really know how to conduct themselves properly. That would make a lot of sense. I hadn't thought of that.

Astrid Jackson (00:04:18) - Again, I just see the effects everywhere. And, you know, the more people are going outside, the effects of people not picking up after themselves becomes more aware.

Astrid Jackson (00:04:28) - I also think, I mean, we do see it a lot, boaters that have the music very loud and I understand, you know, it's fun for them. But at the same time, other people go outside because they want to enjoy the peace and quiet of it. And so I think it's we have to find a middle ground so that we all can enjoy it the way that we want to do it.

Lee Murray (00:04:49) - I agree 100%. So let's start by having you take us through kind of what does your company do and what kind of things do you offer?

Astrid Jackson (00:04:58) - So, at this point, I'm still at the beginning of the business and I'm focusing on kayak tours and on, hiking tours. So right now I have one hiking tour that I'm offering, but I'm looking at expanding that to other hiking tours, the kayak tours, you know, I have several tours that I'm offering. There's the bioluminescence, which is becoming hot right now. So I just started and the bioluminescence is amazing right now. And then, yeah, I do the manatee tours.

Astrid Jackson (00:05:31) - so we go and get to know have a closer encounter with the manatees. We do go to some really unique spots that a lot of people don't really even know about. Even people that live here like Lake Norris. Nobody has. I mean, so many people have not been there. And it's a very unique place where there's stunted cypresses. And so I actually like to go to a place and take places, people to places where it's quiet and where they can really just enjoy nature.

Lee Murray (00:06:01) - How do you find these places?

Astrid Jackson (00:06:05) - you know, a lot of them I have, you know, done by going out myself. So I wasn't always a tour guide. so I, I actually used to be in software development, and, when I started going out more by myself and looking at places, you know, that's kind of how you find it's just trying out things here and from other people about really cool places to go, and then checking it out and seeing if that would be something that other people would enjoy as well.

Lee Murray (00:06:38) - Going off the beaten path, not just sticking to the typical places that everyone goes. Exactly.

Astrid Jackson (00:06:45) - Yes, yes.

Lee Murray (00:06:46) - You know, there's a, there's a place. When you mentioned the stumped. Cyprus, if you're coming down for 17, coming back towards Sanford, and you go across Lake Jesup, I believe it is, on the, on the right side as you're you're on the right lane, I guess, going across the lake on the right hand side, there's just this really amazing looking, pristine type of there's cypress, there's palms. it's like swampy because it's it's right there near the the lake. invariably you'll see a gator or two, obviously, but but then you'll see some cows out there every once in a while. do you know the area I'm talking about?

Astrid Jackson (00:07:31) - I'm not 100% sure there is black hammock. Is it that what you're talking about? I don't know, yeah, okay. Yeah, but that's more for hiking, right? There's not there's not a river or anything that we're talking about.

Astrid Jackson (00:07:44) - Okay. No, but yeah, I have hiked there before and it's beautiful.

Lee Murray (00:07:48) - Yeah. It's amazing. I mean, it's it's something to see off the highway. I can imagine what it'd be on foot.

Astrid Jackson (00:07:54) - Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, it's that's kind of the thing. Even hiking is something that a lot of people here in Florida don't think about that this could be an activity because we don't have the mountains, but it's still gorgeous. Obviously it's getting a little bit hot right now for hiking, so you have to do it early. but it's still, it's it's a way to experience Florida in a completely different way.

Lee Murray (00:08:18) - Yeah. You know, I would be interested to, if you could, like, just give us a handful of, sites that you think have some differences, you know, because one of the things that I found going out hiking, is you end up seeing a lot of the same type of terrain because it's Florida, you know, you have the scrub palms and you have the pine trees and, it's all starts to look the same.

Lee Murray (00:08:46) - I'm curious if there's places that you would tell someone to go that is very different.

Astrid Jackson (00:08:51) - So the the hike that we're doing is in the Black Bear Wilderness area, and it's a seven mile loop. You don't have to do the whole loop. But that is something when I discovered is like, whoa, this is a little bit different. It's not there's not as much sand. It does change a little bit. we don't as I said, we don't have the, the hills or the mountains, but this one has roots, so you have to it's actually a little bit challenging to go there. it also changes. It's very diverse in the environment. so you can see gators, obviously there is a chance to see black bears. They are there. But you know, you have to be very early before anybody else has scared them off already.

Lee Murray (00:09:35) - Where is that located?

Astrid Jackson (00:09:37) - It's by Sanford. Okay. Sanford.

Lee Murray (00:09:40) - I'm looking it up right now. It's got a lot of amazing pictures.

Astrid Jackson (00:09:45) - Yes. Yeah.

Lee Murray (00:09:46) - Yeah, it is very different than. And I like the the cypress.

Astrid Jackson (00:09:52) - Yeah, there's a little there's a cypress swamp there. There is just, you know, hydro hammock and, a lot of different. And then you, there is a part where you have a little bit of a, you know, the sand, under underneath your feet.

Lee Murray (00:10:10) - Is there anywhere to, to camp out there?

Astrid Jackson (00:10:12) - They do have one camping spot there, primitive camping, where you can just stay overnight. So, yeah, I haven't done it yet, but it's something that I have been wanting to do. Just spending the night out there and listening to. Yeah. The night.

Lee Murray (00:10:29) - Yes. That's amazing. Yeah. I'm looking at the pictures now. It's amazing looking. I'll have to definitely go check that out. that's a that's a great example. Yeah. Do you have any others? I mean, I'm actually asking for myself now.

Astrid Jackson (00:10:44) - Yeah, yeah. Well, I just discovered the the, what's it called? The Green Spring Park, which is actually not very far from you.

Astrid Jackson (00:10:54) - It's in the Barry, I believe. Or also Sanford. It's on the. It's right by the lake. what is it? So, you know, it's by the Saint John's. Yes, exactly. And so it actually has a green spring. It's green water, but it's crystal clear. It's it's a small park, but it's very beautiful. I'm actually looking currently right now in making that into a hiking trip.

Lee Murray (00:11:22) - Yeah, I think I know what you're talking about. I've seen that before. I haven't been out there though. It looks beautiful. And then I'm seeing a picture here. It says Go Florida by Trail. And they have a couple different loops colored on the map across the state of Florida. Yes, that's pretty cool. Do you do you participate participate in those or do you just kind of create your own?

Astrid Jackson (00:11:44) - I kind of create my own sometimes, you know, obviously you get your ideas from everywhere. people telling me, me looking on the internet, what sounds good, but I, I always test it out before I actually put it, you know, make it into a commercial tour.

Astrid Jackson (00:12:00) - Because some of the tours I started, they sounded really good and I started and was like, yeah, this is nothing special. This is a nice walk, but it's not something that everybody needs to see.

Lee Murray (00:12:13) - Yeah. And then talking about kayaking, I, I've been up to Juniper Springs, which was really nice. out to Lake George. That's where I saw a lot of the Cypress. kind of had an amazing experience out there with a friend of a few years ago, kayaking out, into the lake. And, we're just sort of, you know, slowly navigating through the cypress. And so you're, you're kind of lean back, looking up at the tree tops and you see, I guess, hawks that have nested up there. And so they're doing their thing, and then then it starts to lightly rain. I mean, it was like, a really cool experience, like sort of a cathartic experience. Yeah. and that's that's like old Florida to me. Like, that's real Florida.

Astrid Jackson (00:13:00) - Yes. Yeah. The, so the black, we actually have a license to a commercial license to go down Blackwater Creek starting in Seminole Forest, where the only outfitter that has this commercial license and that is really old Florida. And it's it's really wild. So they don't. There's nothing developed there. So when you go through, they're the animals, they're not used. There's not a lot of traffic. They're usually we're the only ones out there. So that's one of my favorite ones. But even Lake Norris feels like old Florida with that's again, the stunted cypresses. Yeah. And it's just, you know, sometimes you come to places and you're like, whoa, Florida has something like that. I did not even know. You know, it's it's just so out of it.

Lee Murray (00:13:48) - It reminds me of a of a camping trip I took one year with my son and a friend and his his boy. We went down to the Everglades, which it was just amazing in terms of ecosystem and wildlife and all of it.

Lee Murray (00:14:02) - I mean, we had the full show from the an American crocodile to an owl, you know, eating a snake and like, you get the whole experience, but you also step out of your car to a literal swarm of mosquitoes. And, I mean, there is no way around it. so that that really kind of tainted that experience.

Astrid Jackson (00:14:23) - Yes, yes it does. So you got to be prepared for, all the other things. So have like a head net, mosquito net or something like that so that you, Yeah, you have to be prepared. Otherwise that can turn into a not so nice experience.

Lee Murray (00:14:39) - Yes, and it will. They will turn that experience from a lovely one to something you won't ever want to do again.

Astrid Jackson (00:14:44) - Yep, yep. another thing that I wanted to mention that I didn't get to say was another thing that we offer is kayak lessons. So that's for those people that really want to go a little bit further. so I personally am a certified kayak instructor. And so I do believe it's it's a good idea to learn what you're doing.

Astrid Jackson (00:15:07) - Obviously if you're just going kayaking one off, you know, don't worry about it. But if you want to really make this into a hobby, I think learning how to do it properly just makes makes your enjoyment so much better, you know, because you learn how to paddle more efficiently and that that way you can paddle further without less effort and have more enjoyment with that. And also proper, you know, technique and also how to save yourself. So if something happens, you know, be safe. A lot of people, especially here in Florida, I don't think that they need to wear their life jackets. They think this is, a place it's always sunny, never any bad weather, and the life jacket is just the most important thing. And you should always wear it.

Lee Murray (00:15:57) - Yes. Even if you think you're a proficient swimmer or even if you are, it doesn't matter. I always wear mine. It's. It's the first thing that I pack.

Astrid Jackson (00:16:06) - Well, I have I had actually mothers tell me that they daughter doesn't need to wear it because she is a very good swimmer.

Astrid Jackson (00:16:12) - And I told them, well, that might very well be, but what a good, what good a swimmer is she when she is unconscious, you know, then she's just going to fall to the river bottom, and we don't even have a chance to get her back in time. So.

Lee Murray (00:16:25) - That's right. It's very real.

Astrid Jackson (00:16:28) - unfortunately, this that.

Lee Murray (00:16:29) - Makes me think of sort of my, I like kayaks more than I do canoes. I know we're off on a rabbit trail here, but I. I prefer sit on top kayaks versus sit in because they're very similar to canoes, in that if you fall over. In my opinion. Good luck. Because now you have you fill that canoe with water, you've got to go to the edge of the riverbank to get back in it and go through a whole process. I'm not a huge fan of alligators, and that's a lot of times where the alligators like to sit is on the at the riverbank. So, you know, my thought is if I'm going to sit on top, kayak and I fall out or flip over, flip it back over, self recover very easily and I'm on my way.

Lee Murray (00:17:14) - But if I'm going to sit in kayak or canoe, I'm now gator bait.

Astrid Jackson (00:17:20) - Well, you know, there are actually methods of getting back, especially in the kayak. the canoe still kind of difficult, usually easier if you have somebody that assists you with that to get the water out. but yeah. And that is something that I do teach is how to get back into your seat and top, in your sit inside kayak. You know, there's definitely several methods that can work. And, you know, especially when you're going out into open water, you should know how to do that. Obviously, the the golden method is the the roll, the the Eskimo roll that you don't even leave the kayak. But there's also methods that you can do before you even get to that level. Yeah.

Lee Murray (00:18:04) - Yeah, I just sort of have a personal rule, you know, especially with my family and having kids that we don't go in canoes. We just if you're going to go out, you're going to go on a kayak and it's going to have holes in it, and it can flip over and flip over and flip over, and I don't have to really worry.

Lee Murray (00:18:19) - I don't need any more training or anything on top of that's great. But I don't have to worry about, you know, the child getting trapped under a canoe and it's sinking or, you know, something like that. so that makes, you know, it's all stuff that that people I think people just sort of get, you know, this idea of, I want to go outside and go get in the water because I haven't done it in a while. And then they they are not prepared.

Astrid Jackson (00:18:42) - Yeah. Well, in a little bit complacent, you know, it's it's or just not knowing. I have people that I see people that are going out in a sit in with a spray skirt. So this price skirt is what goes around the cockpit. So at that point you're encased in the kayak and when it flips, you don't just fall out of the kayak. And so people don't even realize the danger of that if they're flipping. And now you're underwater. You're trapped to your kayak. People panic and people can die, you know? So but a lot of people think, well, I'm in a sit in, I'm in the ocean.

Astrid Jackson (00:19:18) - I'm supposed to wear a spray skirt. So I'm doing that without actually thinking about the consequences. And so, yeah, you should never wear a spray skirt until you know how to get out of it. Yes. Well, yeah, there's just a few rules there, you know, that's important to to follow and then you're already a lot safer.

Lee Murray (00:19:38) - So let's let's go back to your business. What did you do before this. You said software I think. And why did you start this business?

Astrid Jackson (00:19:46) - so going a little bit in my, into my background, I have a master's in artificial intelligence, and, I was working for EA for a while, so I was making video games, programming video games. Then I went back to school for a PhD in computer science in robotics and machine learning. While I was doing the program, I started working also for Toyota Research Institute in Robotics and Machine Learning research. And then, you know, I decided, you know, it's I've been working pretty much non-stop.

Astrid Jackson (00:20:23) - I barely had any vacation over 15 years, and I missed the other side of me that like to go outdoors and like to do things. And, and again, I mean, it's never just one reason why you do something. You know, there were, I, I was diagnosed with osteoarthritis early on. And, you know, at that point I started thinking, well, you know, how much longer will I be able to do all these things if I'm waiting? Until I'm retired to do all these things, I may not be able to do it anymore, you know? So all these things kind of played a role. I ended up deciding not to finish my PhD and have maybe two years left, and instead started kayak guiding. And so I started off with another company. learned the ropes. I figured it's probably a good idea to learn a little bit what I want to do before I jump headfirst into starting my own business. And so, yeah, August 2021 is when I officially started the business, but I didn't open the doors until pretty much January 2020.

Astrid Jackson (00:21:35) - 2022. Okay, so, basically, I this year marks the third year of my business. And. Yeah.

Lee Murray (00:21:44) - Congrats.

Astrid Jackson (00:21:45) - Thank you. Well, that.

Lee Murray (00:21:48) - Had to have been a big shift. going from very deep learning about a very advanced, innovative thing that's happening in our world to something that is been around since the beginning of time, you know, and and really immersing yourself in the outdoors. what what happened that you said, I'm going to make this major shift.

Astrid Jackson (00:22:15) - I think there was already signs, you know, where I would go out on a kayak tour. I mean, honestly, I never really I hadn't even kayaked a lot before I started, being a kayak tour guide. Really. So I started kayaking in, in the summer of 2019. So. Right. So I've been paddling for three months when I decided I wanted to be a guide and, but I have been going out on tours, you know, guided tours have been doing a little bit kayaking here and there.

Astrid Jackson (00:22:54) - And I always was thinking whenever I went on vacation and I saw the, the tour guides, I was like, man, you have the dream job. So there was a little bit of that there that I felt, I want to do that all the time and not just be inside. Yeah. and unfortunately, I do think what had a little bit to do with it as well is, you know, unfortunately, being a woman in tech still is. You're still not equal to a man. you still I had the feeling you still have to work double as hard to be half as appreciated. And, you know, doing this for 15 years kind of wears on. You sure. especially and probably I didn't do myself any favors by going into really heavily male dominated fields. So, and the game industry, not a lot of women programmers there at all. I was working on Madden NFL and we had 40 programmers, and I think I was the only woman in under 40 programmers. So just to give you an idea,

Lee Murray (00:24:04) - A big gap.

Astrid Jackson (00:24:06) - Yes. So I think that I just kind of was kind of tired of that and wanted to do was looking for something different. And, I was just I'm just a very happy person when I'm on the water. being outdoors, I don't know, there's something to it, and I, it gives me balance. This gives my life balance. And so when I discovered that. I really wanted to make that. I wanted to give it a try. So that is kind of what happened that I was like, okay, I owe it to myself to give that a try before just kind of discard it completely. And so that's when I started as a tour guide for somebody else. And fell in love with it. I just was happy as can be. And I realized, you know, you don't need I mean, it was particularly financially a big change. You know, I went from a six figure income to pretty much poverty level income. And, so that was that was huge. But I, I didn't I don't want to turn the clock back.

Astrid Jackson (00:25:18) - I'm really happy where I am. I really enjoy the business and actually I enjoy doing it all by myself. And, you know, doing it the way that I feel is right.

Lee Murray (00:25:30) - Yeah. That's great. That's such a great story. so you saw that these guys had the dream job, the dream life. Do you still feel like that now that you're in that role?

Astrid Jackson (00:25:42) - I do, yes. I mean, there's there's moments when you have to get up early in the morning. Sometimes you want to do the you want to be there for the sunrise and it's like, oh my God, why am I doing this? And then you come out and you see the sunrise and it's like, oh, now I know why I'm doing this. So it's it's just very rewarding. I love the reactions in people when they are suddenly stunned, when they have this amazing experience that they did not expect. And I love the educational part. teaching people more about the wildlife and how we can preserve it.

Astrid Jackson (00:26:20) - Yeah, I'm. I'm not looking back.

Lee Murray (00:26:25) - That's amazing. So, let's talk about, like, as you're growing your business. Our. What's been the learning curve for you, going from being in software to now owning a service type of business where you're having to do some marketing, probably even a little bit of sales, you know, let people know about your brand and bringing people into this experience and getting them to hopefully come back at some point or tell others. How has that learning curve been for you?

Astrid Jackson (00:27:00) - I would say it's a steep learning curve. one of the things that I definitely noticed is that marketing is not really my forte. It's not what I'm best at, you know? as a one woman show, you pretty much have to be you have to wear different caps, and obviously some caps fit better than others. and so I, I started with, you know, building my own website and everything because all that comes easy, all the technology, technology part comes easy. So but then I realized I don't have the time to work on the SEO to really get up there.

Astrid Jackson (00:27:43) - so I have to make a decision to give that to somebody else, maybe don't have this very unique website that my business was not about that. My business was about. the kayak tours and kayak lessons and hiking tours. So that was a little bit steep. I'm still struggling with social media. I am not a big fan of social media to begin with. and so that is that is very hard for me. So yeah, those those are big struggles. Just learning it all, being the accountant. And I think a big part for me was trying to find ways that I could afford to bring help on, you know, what can I afford? If you're looking for somebody to do social, to do the SEO, if you go on with the real pack, you know, then we're talking about thousands of dollars per month. I don't I don't have that yet. So finding ways okay, where can I bring somebody on to help me with things. And I'm still looking for things. But yeah, the going to a template based version of the the website was a big thing having other people worry about my SEO.

Astrid Jackson (00:29:02) - Yeah.

Lee Murray (00:29:03) - So that's great. I mean, yeah. So what would you say is the kind of the main thing that you're trying to do right now to, get new customers.

Astrid Jackson (00:29:15) - get new customers. I've been kind of biting the bullet and been using pretty much right from the start, the OTAs, the online, travel agencies, which are. Unfortunately necessarily evil, I would say, because they do take huge commission. And so that that goes really deep, deep into the pockets. But at the same time, it's money that I only spend if I actually had a successful booking. So with marketing, usually you pay a lot and then you don't know, is that actually going to make any difference or not? And so that is a more surefire thing. But. So. Yeah, so I am. You can find me on TripAdvisor Google get get your guide and in these places. so that's a big part of how I'm trying to get new customers. I am also part of some local networking groups where I'm trying to get interest and raise awareness of my brand locally among people, for people that have visitors or just kind of.

Astrid Jackson (00:30:30) - Talking with people that want to do something, and maybe word of mouth spreads that way.

Lee Murray (00:30:36) - So you, you know, obviously being a tour guide, you have a capacity that you can fill and you kind of hit it. You will hit a ceiling at some point if you're not getting there soon, where you can only take so many tours out by yourself. How are you thinking about building the business with a team of other tour guides? Other guides?

Astrid Jackson (00:30:57) - So I actually was, and that started being in this position this year, which came as a surprise. I did not expect that. and so my march was very busy. I was working every day non-stop, pretty much. and I knew that I needed to bring some people on. So I, have two people that are, part time. I'm sorry that contractors so so they help out and especially I was looking for people right now because as I said, the bioluminescence has started. And so I, I have to do a lot of the night tours.

Astrid Jackson (00:31:42) - And last year I did both. I did the day tours, I did the night tours. Sometimes I only had like five hours of sleep in between. It was pretty rough. I was pretty exhausted after that.

Lee Murray (00:31:54) - Yeah, that'd be tough.

Astrid Jackson (00:31:55) - So, I knew I didn't want to do that another year, so I was looking for people that can do the day tours. It's it seems to be easier to find people that want to do the day tours than the night tours. so I'm doing whatever other people don't want to do.

Lee Murray (00:32:11) - There you go.

Astrid Jackson (00:32:12) - Yeah.

Lee Murray (00:32:13) - Which is it's needed at the beginning. You know, you kind of have to pick up the slack where needed and give other people the the more juicy hours, I guess.

Astrid Jackson (00:32:21) - Exactly. Yeah. So yeah. So this year I started having two people that are helping me out.

Astrid Jackson (00:32:29) - And we will see how.

Astrid Jackson (00:32:30) - All that works.

Lee Murray (00:32:31) - That's great. Well, so you mentioned that you're using these travel agencies like TripAdvisor to, to get leads.

Lee Murray (00:32:38) - are you getting more of your customers from out of town coming to Florida or people who live here in Florida?

Astrid Jackson (00:32:44) - I would say more tourists. Most of my customers are tourists, people that, have been going to Disneyland, you know, and they want to do at least one other thing outside of the park. I do get a lot of people that are coming for a conference. but yeah, it's mostly out. Outsiders. Out-of-Towners.

Lee Murray (00:33:06) - Yeah. I, my family and I, when we travel, I'll. I'll book, experiences through Airbnb. and I don't know if you've experimented with that or not, but I think TripAdvisor has them as well where you can book a place to stay, obviously, if someone's house or place. But you can also book experiences. Do you utilize that.

Astrid Jackson (00:33:27) - Using the Airbnb experiences to I, I started doing it. It doesn't it doesn't integrate with my booking software. And so there's a lot of manual. You know, I have to be careful if somebody books there that I don't go over my, my max limit.

Astrid Jackson (00:33:45) - So that's why I kind of took it off. I, it also didn't seem I didn't seem to get a lot from Airbnb. And that's why I decided okay, let's try that again later. But yeah, there's one thing that I can say to everybody. It's always better when you go directly through the outfitter. So the operator, if you can find who the outfitter is, the operator is, then you should directly book with them. We have a lot more leeway in cancellation. And, you know, we can work with you a lot easier. Or you know, sometimes it's even people book through a third party that are using then TripAdvisor and we don't even get their phone numbers. So now things are changing. Or I had people that weren't showing up and I wanted to call them to see where they are, because then I like to wait for them if I can and I could, I would get to another service and they said, oh, we now have to contact that person. And it gets very, very complicated, you know, or how can we communicate with them then any changes or usually we, we do like to send out a text the night before with some information that is helpful, maybe a pin to the location and that makes it really difficult.

Lee Murray (00:35:09) - Yeah, yeah, I've had that experience. most of them have been pretty good, but from a customer standpoint, you realize that pretty quickly when you have, you know, 1 or 2 layers in between you and the the actual vendor, it does make sense sometimes to use Airbnb or TripAdvisor to do your research, and then you find those people and go directly to them. Yes, that that helps both parties I think.

Astrid Jackson (00:35:34) - Yeah. Well, and honestly, sometimes the you can actually there's some wiggle room for negotiation too because since they're using since they're taking so much commission, you know, so if you, you can give a lower price and then both parties actually win.

Lee Murray (00:35:56) - That's right. so what makes you unique? You know, what is something that's different about, you know, maybe why you started this is is built into that, but what makes you stand out amongst other competitors?

Astrid Jackson (00:36:10) - so for me, quality is, you know, is more important than quantity. And so that's kind of how I'm operating my business.

Astrid Jackson (00:36:19) - I am not trying to go out with, you know, maximizing the numbers in one tour. the groups are very small. Ten is my maximum that I'm taking. and so that also means quality boats, quality guides, trained guides that actually know what they're doing. A lot of people are not actually aware that there is nothing that keeps anybody from becoming a kayak tour guide. You can just wake up and say, I'm a kayak tour guide now you and you do it. There's no qualifications for first aid for, you know, how do I actually kayak? How do I get people back into their kayak when they flip out? Yeah. And so it's important to do your research to as a customer that you go with a company that actually knows what they're doing. And I see so many times I see groups with 20, 30, 40 people. And then they have two guides for that whole group. and they're supposed to manage that. Now with kayaks, you get wind. You, you know, the kayaks, they're all separate.

Astrid Jackson (00:37:24) - So they're spread out and there is a lot of things that can go wrong. Yeah. So I think that is where one of the biggest things that I distinguish myself, and I do try to do more of the VIP, you actually do get water and you get a snack on my tours automatically with you. I do provide a service that I do take pictures, though. They're an extra expense. I keep it low because there's still extra work with getting the pictures later uploaded. I do edit them and stuff, but so people don't even have to bring the camera with them if they don't want to, which is something that not a lot of operators.

Lee Murray (00:38:02) - Yeah, that's really nice because it's hard to have your I mean, most people use their phone. You don't want it. You want that in a dry bag. You don't want that just on your person or falling in the water somewhere. So that's a nice extra service.

Astrid Jackson (00:38:15) - And it's a good camera that I have with 60 times zoom. So when I take a picture of wildlife, it actually looks like wildlife and not just a blurb.

Lee Murray (00:38:23) - Yeah.

Astrid Jackson (00:38:24) - So.

Astrid Jackson (00:38:25) - That's amazing. So the, the the.

Astrid Jackson (00:38:29) - Professionalism is important to me and then also the educational part. So I want for me it's important that it's not only about the customer and the thrills that they're seeking, but that we're doing it in a way that is appropriate to the wildlife we see that is appropriate to the to the environment. And you know that it's more learning. To to conduct ourselves properly and maybe learn something. I remember I was on a tour once and I was in this small boat, small tour operator looking for dolphins, and he did everything right. And then at the same place at the, you know, there was a big company with a big boat, and they kept on going over the plot of, of, of dolphins and yes, for the people, they got a very close look, but it wasn't the right thing to do for the Dolphins, you know. And I was like, man, I'm so glad I'm here with I'm supporting this guy here and not this big outfitter that is just about, you know, just doing things to make money, right? You know, bad practices, feeding alligators.

Astrid Jackson (00:39:41) - And now we have an aggressive alligator around, but it's just so that the alligators come to the boats and things like this. It's it's not good methods to do. And I'm against it. Right. And I'm hoping that the people that are coming on my tours, that they will appreciate that and, enjoy the learning that they're getting provided.

Lee Murray (00:40:05) - Yeah, I like that a lot. That's a very compelling, sort of story to, for people to attach themselves to. And hopefully that's what their testimonial is going to be after they've had the tour. because and that's cool that you had that experience too, with the Dolphins and you had that the outfitter that was, you know, kind of doing everything right. I like that, that you have sort of a model for, you know, what yours should look like. Yes. so as you look forward and as we wrap this up, what what are some of your plans moving forward for growth?

Astrid Jackson (00:40:39) - I definitely need to get better at social media, so I need to do something I probably will have to do figure out my advertisement, my marketing plan.

Astrid Jackson (00:40:51) - better. I do think I want to explore other locations to to offer. One of the big things is once the day tours business is running more or less by itself. I do want to also offer multi-day tours.

Astrid Jackson (00:41:10) - Oh yeah.

Astrid Jackson (00:41:11) - So a big part of like how, you know, building and learning how to do it. So, you know, it's people that don't feel comfortable going out by themselves, that they can find a safe haven where they can learn, where they can grow before they, you know, venture out and maybe have this horrible experience. And, and then they will never do it again, rather build in learning so that they have done it a couple of times with somebody. And now they say, yeah, I know what I'm doing now. Now I can actually go outside and do it myself.

Lee Murray (00:41:48) - Yeah, right. I like that a lot. That's great. Yeah. You're really connecting people to to the outdoors, to nature and and getting them hooked on wanting to maybe do it again.

Lee Murray (00:41:58) - Not necessarily just being a tourist.

Astrid Jackson (00:42:00) - Exactly. Hence the name Venture Outdoors.

Astrid Jackson (00:42:04) - Love it.

Lee Murray (00:42:05) - Yeah. And that's great. If we want we want to send people your way. Where should we send them.

Astrid Jackson (00:42:09) - you can send them to w w w dot venture outdoors florida.com. Okay. Or my phone number is (407) 267-9950.

Lee Murray (00:42:26) - That's great. I love I love the images on your site to. It's very inviting. Very much tells a story of, wanting to get out on the water. It's great.

Astrid Jackson (00:42:36) - So these pictures.

Astrid Jackson (00:42:37) - Were all created by me. So during our tours.

Lee Murray (00:42:41) - That's awesome.

Astrid Jackson (00:42:42) - Those are all tour pictures. Yes.

Lee Murray (00:42:44) - So no stock photography.

Astrid Jackson (00:42:46) - There's maybe 1 or 2 in there.

Lee Murray (00:42:48) - So. Hey. Well, I loved having you on. This was such a genuine good conversation, you know, with the, you know, legitimate small business owner who's navigating all of the things that they have to figure out to grow. I love it. I've. I've really enjoyed the conversation.

Astrid Jackson (00:43:05) - So did I.

Astrid Jackson (00:43:06) - Thank you so much for inviting me. I really enjoyed it myself.

Lee Murray (00:43:10) - Thanks a lot.