Founder Stories - 8 Figure Aviation Exit with Jason Schappert, Founder & CEO of Moola
In this episode of Exploring Growth, host Lee Murray sits down with Jason Schappert, founder and CEO of Moola. They dive into the importance of systems, humility, and adaptability in business. Jason opens up about overcoming financial struggles and the emotional experience of selling his business. This episode offers valuable insights into entrepreneurship, emphasizing resilience, continuous learning, and strategic growth.
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Jason - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonschappert/
Jason Schappert
00:00:00
But I saw one very important distinction kill and bugs with that. Although we grew up poor and then eventually kind of lower middle class as we worked our way up. My dad had very wealthy clients and he also had very poor clients. Just putting it bluntly. And I got to see both extremes on the same day. I remember walking into mansions and going, oh, I want to have this one day. Like, what do these people do different compared to that last client we were just at that had roaches everywhere and was living in poverty. And I remember walking around like, I, I probably wasn't killing bugs. I was probably more enamored by these people's homes and how they lived. And I said, wow, they have a lot of books. Rich people must read a lot. I should start reading a lot. And I just picked up all these little things from killing bugs with dad about how the other side lives. I got to physically see it and then see my dad's work ethic, and I just I knew from that standpoint I was going to be a little bit different from that.
Lee Murray
00:01:01
Okay, so for this episode of Exploring Growth, we're going to get to hear from a founder who recently exited his company after growing its eight figures. And he's going to take us through his journey of building and selling his company, talking about life, business, financials and everything else in between. And, you know, I've been wanting to have more entrepreneurs on and talk about their journey and their their successes of how they built their companies. So I thought this would be a great place to start. Today I'm chatting with Jason Chaput, now founder of CEO of moolah. Welcome to the show, Jason.
Jason Schappert
00:01:34
That's awesome. Great to see my friend. Thanks for having me. I know we had this scheduled for a while. So excited to be chatting with you.
Lee Murray
00:01:40
Yeah. For sure. It's exciting. We when we were introduced, we were talking a little bit, and, I was very intrigued by your story, and, I say founder of moolah or founder now? yeah. Because now moolah, I think, is your current company that you're growing.
Jason Schappert
00:01:56
That's right. We we made an eight figure exit. We retired for like 48 hours. When I say we, my wife and I. So talk about that's a dynamic thing to get into as well. Like spouses working together. Yeah. we retired for 48 hours and we're on to the next business, like, we're we're young and want to contribute. And we jokingly say, like, business is our sport. Like, I don't golf, I don't, you know, do any sports. Business is my sport. You can probably relate to that a little bit.
Lee Murray
00:02:21
I can, I can for sure. I have tried to take a, I tried to golf a little bit more. I have some friends I go golfing with and that's about the only time I go is when we go. I go with them so I can actually enjoy it. but yeah, no business has been the forefront of my life. And, you know, my wife is involved in our company, so I totally get that dynamic.
Lee Murray
00:02:44
and, you know, turning around, though, 48 hours from selling your company. I mean, you must not have any kids.
Jason Schappert
00:02:51
No. We do. We have three of them. Actually, my wife was pregnant when we sold, so that's great. So now we now we have three. So it's like we are just pedal to the floor kind of people. And and again, as we tell that story, it kind of reflects in that.
Lee Murray
00:03:03
So yeah, that's good. That's glad to hear. I think, you know, there's probably something to be said for just turning around and starting again, because if you didn't, you know, you might kind of take to, you know, too much time and you might kind of get lost. I've seen that happen before. and always looking for that next opportunity. So. Hey, good for you.
Jason Schappert
00:03:25
Yeah. Thank you. Appreciate it.
Lee Murray
00:03:27
Okay. So take us back to the beginning. Take us back to, you know, tell us, tell us how your story began, and I'll just kind of ask questions along the way.
Jason Schappert
00:03:36
Absolutely. So I grew up in an entrepreneurial family. So, when we moved to Florida, we lived in, in Maryland, when we moved to Florida, my parents and I, we lived in a motel when we first came to Ocala, Florida. believe it or not. So talk about, like, the entrepreneur, like, scrappy figuring stuff out. Like we lived in a motel for the first few months of my life, essentially. but I always grew up seeing mom and dad work in a business together, and that business they're still doing it to this day is pest control. So, which is a very viable business in Florida for the as you get it, people don't get it bugs. Exactly. So, my my first job was killing bugs with that, and it sounds funny, but it taught me so much, not only about entrepreneurship, but about customer service. Like, you live in Florida, so you get it. Imagine it's August, you're outside, you're killing bugs. And I got to convince Mrs. Johnson to let me into her house.
Jason Schappert
00:04:36
And I'm sweaty and stinky and everything else, like you learn persuasion and sales and everything else in the process. But I saw one very important distinction killing bugs with dad. Although we grew up poor and then eventually kind of lower middle class as we worked our way up. My dad had very wealthy clients and he also had very poor clients. Just putting it bluntly. Yeah, and I got to see both extremes on the same day. I remember walking into mansions and going, ooh, I want to have this one day. Like, what do these people do different compared to that last client we were just at that had roaches everywhere and was living in poverty. And I remember walking around like, I, I probably wasn't killing bugs. I was probably more enamored by these people's homes and how they lived. I saw, wow, they have a lot of books. Rich people must read a lot. I should start reading a lot. And I just picked up all these little things from killing bugs with dad about how the other side lives.
Jason Schappert
00:05:30
I got to physically see it and then see my dad's work ethic, and I just I knew from that standpoint I was going to be a little bit different from that. So I went down to our public library and this is back, like I'm, I'm listening to, like, Tony Robbins on cassette tape, Zig Ziglar, Jim Rohn, like the stuff you've listened to as well, like the classics. You got to go flip over to the b side on cassette on your, you know.
Lee Murray
00:05:53
I, I could tell you stories about that right around the corner. I don't have a radio. I have, but I have a cassette player.
Jason Schappert
00:05:58
Exactly, exactly. So just doing that. And, my dream wasn't to kill bugs with dad forever. My big passion was actually aviation. But learning to fly is just so expensive. today, as just as much as it was back then. So here I am, 12, 13 years old, and dad said, well, Jason, if you want to make extra money, anything, you upsell my customers, his pest control customers.
Jason Schappert
00:06:25
I'll let you keep. He goes anything I said anything. So I'm. I'm knocking on the door going, hey, I notice your driveway has some oil spot. I can pressure wash it for you. I noticed your lawns. I'll mow it for you. I'll pull these weeds like I was doing all the jobs no one else wanted to do. That's all. So here I am, 1213 years old, learning like door to door sales. Kind of cold ish warmish sales. because at least these people know us. Sure. And learn how to upsell these people to fund a dream. And here I am in my mind thinking, well, I'm just going to be an airline pilot or I'm going to just go do that. Like, I didn't realize I am getting an MBA in in sales and everything else at a very, very, young age. Yeah. So that's really how it started out. I was very, very blessed to grow up in the family, that I grew up in and the time that I grew up and that serendipity kind of continues throughout the story.
Jason Schappert
00:07:15
I became a pilot very young, at 16 years old, 17. I was a private pilot, by 18, almost 19 years old, I became a flight instructor. Okay. and I'll never forget. So this is like, flight instructor is your first, like, real aviation job where you're going to actually get paid. And I went to the flight school where I did all my flying at. And I remember saying to them, hey, I'd love to work for you guys. I've been here since I knew nothing and I'd love a job. They said, this is awesome, Jason, we'd love to hire you. We're going to pay you $11 an hour. So wait a second. For the past 4 or 5 years, I've been paying you guys $25 an hour to for an instructor. Yeah, and that's when the math clicked. They're collecting 25. They're given 11 to that guy who's doing all the work, and he stays in his office all day. I said, I want to be the guy that stays in his office all day.
Jason Schappert
00:08:04
I don't want the guy sweating out there in little airplanes all day. Right? So from from saving all this, money, killing bugs and everything else. With that, I said, I'm going to go out on my own. I think I can figure this out. And I bought my first airplane. Lee, you're not going to believe this for $10,000. Now, just imagine what a $10,000 airplane looks like in your mind. Like. And you probably have a pretty exact not an idea. Oh, from 1975. All original. When I say all original, I mean like cloth seats. So imagine in Florida what cloth seats with no air conditioner in the plane? Yeah. No. All the sweat that's been in there since 1975. What the thing smelled like. What it looked like shag carpet. Oh, only shag because it was fuzzing up so much. Like it was literally like coming apart from being used so much like it was, my, my wife, when she first saw it, she said, this is a yucky plane.
Jason Schappert
00:08:59
So she's. Thank you.
Lee Murray
00:09:00
I'm not going to go in that with you.
Jason Schappert
00:09:02
Yeah, yeah. It was, paint was chipping, so they were just like zinc chromate it with a green like primer green. It looked like an army plane. And, it, but you know what? It served its purpose, and and it got me started. a wise, wise person once told me, you don't have to get it right. You just have to get it going. Yeah. And of course, we all want to start with the big, beautiful plane and the big building and the fancy website and everything else. But you don't have to get it right. You just have to get it going. There's a lot.
Lee Murray
00:09:29
More than that.
Jason Schappert
00:09:30
So I started taking on students and here I am still mowing lawns and stuff because now I've got, you know, bills to pay. I'm trying to start this business. I'm taking on some students still mowing lawns, still listening to Zig Ziglar and Tony Robbins.
Jason Schappert
00:09:43
And the latest mantra I keep hearing is, Jason, you've got to create leverage in your business, right? So I'm okay. Leverage. How do I make leverage leverages I've got to be in that airplane to make money. And yeah, I'm making money on my time. I'm making money on the airplane rental. And I remember being on the ground one day, and the first time somebody ever rented my airplane, like they called me up and said, hey, I want to. I just want to use your airplane to take my girlfriend flying. I can't remember the scenario, but I remember being on the ground watching my airplane fly. I said, I'm on the ground, I'm a pilot and I'm making money. So this is the leverage they're talking about. How do I get more of this? I need to find more of this. So my ideal was I need more airplanes, I need more people. But that's a very capital intensive business, a flight school, which I was I was tracking towards a flight school, a flight school.
Jason Schappert
00:10:31
So capital intensive and so much liability as you can imagine and risk. And, I remember I'd have students when they'd go on night flights, like, you can't sleep because you're waiting for them to text. You say they're down safe. Like, I don't want to live that life now. So about that time, there was this little thing called YouTube, firing up. And it wasn't like YouTube was still in the garage, but they weren't owned by Google yet, so they're like, in this limbo. And about the same time, there was this company called GoPro and I was I was big into the surf community. And in Florida, everyone kind of goes to that faze. You grow up in Florida, and I was seeing all these surfers with these GoPro cameras. I was thinking, they're waterproof. They're impact proof. They can. I bet I could put these in my airplane and start uploading videos to YouTube. And when I told people that, they said, I think you're a little crazy, but okay, so I saved up and I bought two at Best Buy or wherever I bought them from, and kind of tested them out.
Jason Schappert
00:11:30
And I put one inside the airplane. So when I if I was teaching a fly Lee, I'd actually sit in the co-pilot's seat as your instructor and you sit in the pilot's seat. I left the pilot's seat empty, and I put a camera drop down about where your head would be, so where your view would be. So it was like, you're in the plane with me, and I put another one. I kind of sticky mounted it out to the wing, which sounds crazy, but it was a it was a slow little airplane. Right? So we're going like 70 miles an hour, nothing too crazy. And, I began to upload these videos to YouTube and, 12 views on the first video became 24, on the next one became this idea of, maybe we have something here. and I had this crazy idea that I want to teach people to fly on the internet. And when you say it and now imagine saying that 16 years ago, everyone went, yeah, you want to do what you want to do? What? Like now you're like, I can see how you can do that.
Jason Schappert
00:12:24
But 16 years ago I was like a vagabond, like, no, that's not even possible. We need to teach people to fly on the internet. You got to go to a flight school, you got to go to a ground school. You got to go to college for that. Everything. I love disrupting traditional crusty old industries. Yeah. you'll see a pattern of that in my life, apparently. And, I said, no, I think we can do this. So I, I began making these videos. I'm still living with my parents at the time, thankfully. You know, great place to be when you're trying to figure out bootstrap a business. That's right.
Lee Murray
00:12:59
Everything else on top of it.
Jason Schappert
00:13:00
All that. Exactly. And, I began making these videos, and I, I locked them behind a paywall. and I follow the business model I still use to this day is I give away some of my best. It's similar to your business model. Give away some of the best content, deliver over, deliver on value with the premise that you want the real good stuff.
Jason Schappert
00:13:21
We'll book that call or sign up for this course or whatever that is like that. That is a business model that will work today and work in the next 20 years. Yeah.
Lee Murray
00:13:31
If you're serious about taking the next step and taking action in your business or, you know, doing something that's going to actually have impact instead of just being entertained by the content or, you know, consuming the content. yeah. I mean, I definitely subscribe to that model.
Jason Schappert
00:13:46
Absolutely. So we began to do that, and I begin to study internet marketing. And this is back. Like I'm watching like, Dan Kennedy, Frank Kern kind of stuff. If any of those names ring a bell. Jeff Walker had the product launch formula. Like, these are like old school, early internet marketers. And I'm watching all this stuff. And I remember launching and thinking like, this is back when everybody and their brother was going to be an internet millionaire. I'm thinking I'm going to be one of those internet millionaires. Awesome.
Jason Schappert
00:14:13
I remember I launched and one person signed up. I'm thinking, this business stuff is harder than I thought, like I thought it was. They make it look so easy on YouTube and on the internet. You know, the course I paid for. Yeah, it's easier.
Lee Murray
00:14:25
To, to to to get someone to buy telling you how to do it than it is to do it.
Jason Schappert
00:14:30
Yeah. And but the funny part about business is one becomes two and two becomes four. Yeah. And it just began to grow from there. I wish I could show you the hockey stick growth and everything else, but honestly, for us, Lee, it was 16 years of putting your head down, put one foot in front of the other every single day. you know, Jim Collins in Good to Great was he called the the Million Mile March or something along that line of, you know, how do you get across the United States? Don't try to run it. Just put one foot in front of the other every single day.
Jason Schappert
00:15:03
And that's just that was our mantra. That was our March. Yeah. you know, I'm not a big sports guy, but I know enough. Everyone's looking for these home runs. And even especially today, like, if somebody is trying to build a channel or something like that, they're looking for these viral videos, these big home runs. In reality, the game baseball's one with base hits. Yeah. Like just keep the ball in play, one after the other, one after the others. Right. So yeah.
Lee Murray
00:15:28
So okay, so at this point in your story, it sounds like you had a passion for aviation and you were able to turn it into, to money, into a business. were you more interested in entrepreneurship? It sounds like, then you were aviation and you were just trying to use your passion as a sort of a vehicle to get there. Or were you thinking like, hey, I'll do whatever. I'm just looking to build a business that will, you know, be of value at some point.
Jason Schappert
00:15:59
It was it was flipped for me at the start. Aviation was the passion business. Business was the desire, right? I my parents never worked for anybody like I. I didn't want to work for anybody either, with the exception of working for them. So I knew I needed to kind of I didn't want to just create my job, though. At the same time, because you see people do that, that they build a business, they make 100 grand a year, and that's awesome. But in reality, you just made a job for yourself, like, yeah, right. I wanted freedom, even as even as a young kid, like, I just had this desire. And maybe it goes back to seeing those those homes with my dad as his clients, those wealthy homes. And like, I wanted, I want, I didn't want freedom for freedom sake. I want freedom for what it allows us to to do. Like there's there's our lives have been very, very blessed because of the things the business has allowed us to do.
Jason Schappert
00:16:53
The trips, get invited to speak at airports in Europe and turn that into a family vacation. Like the perks of it all. yeah. It started as a passion for aviation, honestly. And then I realized, boy, I like this business stuff, too.
Lee Murray
00:17:07
Yeah. Okay. So you're. Yeah. And that tracks. I mean, it's not freedom for freedom sake. It's more to give you options and new opportunities that you wouldn't have had if you're stuck in that sort of delivery role.
Jason Schappert
00:17:21
Sure. No, you're you're exactly right. So, yeah, that kind of it grew from there. And, there's a lot of I mean, I fast forwarded through a lot of things here, but a lot of, if I had to kind of theme everything, it still comes down to leverage, because there came a point in the business where I reached that magical $100,000. And I remember, like, writing goals. Like, if I could just make $100,000, we'll be rich. I still have those books.
Jason Schappert
00:17:48
You should always save your old goal.
Lee Murray
00:17:49
Oh, yeah. I've got them all right behind me.
Jason Schappert
00:17:51
Exactly. It's fun to go back and look and go. How little was I thinking back then? That's true. And, I made $100,000 three years in a row, and I was just as as broke as I was before. Right. I, I wasn't controlling the spending. Making more money was just causing me to spend more. I was a college dropout. I didn't really put it all together. So I had a spending problem. I was bringing the money in, but had a spending problem. And by the way, it was still just Jason. I was doing everything in the business. and then back to leverage. Someone said, well, Jason, you you are the limitation. You are the reason you've made $100,000 the past three years in a row. You need to hire to your weaknesses. And I'm like, hire like I can barely pay my bills. How am I going to afford to hire somebody? You can't afford not to hire somebody, right? And I'm like, that doesn't even make sense until you're on the other side of it, right? When someone gives you that advice, like that's easy for you to say, that's right.
Jason Schappert
00:18:46
But but when you're on the other side of it, you go, yeah, that was that was probably some of the best advice I ever heard. So I said, where, where can I spend the most money or spend the least amount of money and get the biggest bang for my buck? And it was somebody to film and edit and post these videos for me. And this is before we had the ease of technology. So it had to be someone physically in, you know, in house to do that. We didn't have Upwork and all these other services where you go just find anyone in the world. Yeah, right. To to go do that. So I hired somebody locally. employee number one was with, with me all the way to the finish line of the of the exit. And, that's when the business really changed, because I went from working in the business to working on the business. I would step out, I would film a week's worth of content. Then I would go in my office and work on the business while he was editing and posting and just kept the machine going, and it was a small machine to start.
Jason Schappert
00:19:44
But that was that was a big, big point when I got out of the way.
Lee Murray
00:19:48
It's like you created that first system in your business that allowed you to step out enough to start creating other systems.
Jason Schappert
00:19:55
Yeah, and that creates the next bottleneck and the next bottleneck. And yeah, over 16 years, we were just always working on fixing bottlenecks and alleviating this and kind of like a little lean manufacturing kind of strategy the whole the whole way across. Honestly, there was never a time where it's just like, I can sit back and it's just smooth sailing, like even even all the way up to the exit. It was there's always something to work on and do and improve. Yep.
Lee Murray
00:20:22
Yeah, I totally agree. And I see that in my business and in my client's business as well. I preach systems all the time. You know, we talk strategy and now, okay, you've got a strategy. now, what are the systems that are going to support that strategy? And so I can't.
Lee Murray
00:20:39
I couldn't say enough about trying to implement wherever you are in your process of building your company. you know, putting systems in place. And I think a lot of people listening are they usually have some kind of bottleneck, you know, which is brings them to the point of wanting to listen to a podcast like this is, you know, okay, I'm having this problem with my team, or I'm having this problem with sales or whatever it may be. you know, it's being able to detach and look at that problem and say, okay, how can I how can we create a system here that will one uninvolved me to the extent that it needs to be, you know, uninvolved, but to make it more efficient and more effective for growing the company.
Jason Schappert
00:21:18
Well, and take it a step further back to the foundation, you have to be humble enough and vulnerable enough to admit you even have a bottleneck. Yes, 100%. Now imagine doing this in aviation, like the movie Top Gun one and two.
Jason Schappert
00:21:32
Very accurate. Like pilots are cocky. So imagine a bunch of pilots all working on an aviation business. Like who? All think they're maverick. Like, there were some. We butted some heads and everything else. Like, you have to approach things, especially as you begin to lead teams with. I mean, you need to believe in yourself. There's not I'm not saying just be a be a sheep. Sure. You got you got to believe in yourself, but you have to exercise humility and have some vulnerability to say, is this what this person saying? Right. Like, is there some truth is how I've approached everything from early YouTube comments where some hater would just, you know, be in their mom's basement firing off. Yeah, I used to get all fired up, and now I look at these things go, okay, is there some truth here? Is there something I can learn from? Was I really do have a lot of tone when I was talking that video, maybe I was and I and I can learn from that.
Jason Schappert
00:22:23
And I'd say, you know, you were kind of rude about it too. But thank you for teaching me that, you know. Mr.. YouTube comment. Yeah. Right. And, yeah, you have to realize that there could be a problem and humble enough to go out and find it. I know you've read the book several times. thinking grow rich, Napoleon Hill. And one thing Napoleon Hill says in there is in every adversity there's a seed of a greater advantage. And I began to really stand on that mantra as we hit these problems, saying, okay, this stinks. Yeah, we're going to miss payroll. Or I'm talking big stuff like missing payroll or behind on a lease payment or like, like big, big stuff that shakes most people. And, there's a seed of a greater advantage to this. But what is a seed, right? A seed is, is nothing if you don't put it in good soil, if you don't water, if you don't take care of it, you don't give it light.
Jason Schappert
00:23:10
If you don't let bring it in when it's too cold. All of these things. So we just we would choose to see the good in every little speedbump or sometimes a wall that we would hit, and go about it that way.
Lee Murray
00:23:23
I love it so much wisdom in that and, and hearing this first part of your story. So if we now look to the next stage, you know, you've kind of taken us past the YouTube, you set some systems in place, and now you're able to work on the company. what's what was next for you? And, and, I mean, almost in terms of adversity to like, what was the next thing that you had to tackle?
Jason Schappert
00:23:46
well, we'll relate it right back to the podcast. If we're exploring growth. We went from $100,000 three years in a row to hiring that first employee and thus a subsequent second employee. That year, we did $1 million like, like two to the T. That was the goal. And it was literally to the T.
Jason Schappert
00:24:05
It's amazing how there's.
Lee Murray
00:24:06
There's something.
Jason Schappert
00:24:07
Yeah, there's something to this hiring thing. There's something to this leverage thing's legit. It just. Yeah. And leverage gets greater and greater. Right. The wrench just gets bigger and bigger for turning that leverage around. so we hired more and 1 million became 2 million, and 2 million became 3 million. But that 36 employees later, you go, I've got no systems for 36 employees now I've got 36 employees. And guess who they all reported to?
Lee Murray
00:24:34
Oh, yikes. Yeah, yeah.
Jason Schappert
00:24:36
Exactly like. Then I made a monster, and it was almost like. And this was our mantra for, for well over a year. my my right hand. I was actually just talking to him, before we did this, did this podcast, he was calling me, our mantra for he was our our CEO, and still is, we have to get healthy where we are, like, right where we are in aviation. if you're going to navigate, you got to know where you're going.
Jason Schappert
00:25:05
We were always good at where we were going, but sometimes we lied about where we were. And that sounds that sounds so silly to say, but I believe entrepreneurs do that. And you can't do that in an airplane, like you're either here or you're not. That's right. So we always know where we're going and we're going to get there. But don't lie to yourself about where you're at. And I was lying to myself a long time like, well, I'll just I'll make more money and that'll cover up the, the profitability issue and I'll do this. And then you get to the point, you go, how do I have a, you know, a business doing 3 or $4 million a year, and I'm not profitable right there. There's a there's holes in my pockets that I don't realize. And it was a lack of systems, a lack of checks and balances. It was we had no budget. It was we were still running this business like it was just, you know, Jason and one other person.
Jason Schappert
00:25:52
Yeah. Except I had 36 people reporting to me with no guardrails. Like it was just all out. Marketing team. Just make your numbers. I don't care what you spend. Just make your numbers. And let me tell you, they made their numbers. But by the time those numbers fell to the bottom, they were negative. Wow. You think we've got some things to work on. So yeah, growth can bring challenges with it if you're not ready for it as well.
Lee Murray
00:26:14
So what were all these people doing? I mean, you were as far as I understand, it's, you know, to this point, you're teaching people how to fly on the internet and you're selling, you know, courses. So you were hiring marketers or how was that work?
Jason Schappert
00:26:29
Marketing team? Video production team, on camera talent. The biggest department with support. I really instilled to this day, support is so important to me. I think we got eight of the 36. I think eight of them were support team members, and I was neurotic about it.
Jason Schappert
00:26:46
I wouldn't support from eight in the morning till 11:00 at night, like live chat, phone, email. I was incessant about because that's one thing. I saw a gap that our competitors did very poorly. you'd send it and we tested all this. We made a bunch of burner emails and tested everything, and the average was like three days, three business days. To get a response back. I said, oh, if we can just beat that, we will. We will gain market share. That's not hard to beat. But I went a little crazy for it. you know, I'm tired of these these websites where they don't list their phone number. Like, maybe I'm old school. I still want somebody to pick up the phone and talk to a human, like, just walk me through this. so, I became incessant about that, but that costs money, too. we then began venturing into B2B sales. back to leverage. Why just sell direct to consumer? Why just sell Li a membership to our courses when I can sell the College of Aviation that Li is going to the Embry-Riddle is the Liberty Universities of the world, right? I'm gonna sell the college and we did that.
Jason Schappert
00:27:45
But that brings other issues with it too.
Lee Murray
00:27:48
So different. Different customer.
Jason Schappert
00:27:50
You're exactly right. It came to a point and I'll never forget it. And I, I, I felt bad about doing it because I remember it was in December where I realized we were too heavy payroll wise. money is is getting tight and I don't need all these people. And that was that was a really, really kind of dark time. Yeah. I mean, you read it all the time, you know, meta lays off 400 people and, you know, Adobe lays off these and you read it as an article on CNBC and you don't think anything of it. But let me tell you what like or hate Mark Zuckerberg. I'm sure he didn't feel warm and fuzzy about having to send that letter out, or who or directing whoever did it. Like, these people aren't robots. so we ended up laying about 12 people off, and, and it hurt, but we just got heavy and we had to get healthy.
Jason Schappert
00:28:39
We became overweight and we had to lean up and and get back to the gym, and these were good people that we had to let go. That was that was the tough part. But, I was growing for growth sake, okay. And and not worry about anything else. It's like going to the gym but still eating junk food. That's what I was essentially doing. And you've got to follow the full regime to be the the lean muscle machine, right? If that's what you really want to be.
Lee Murray
00:29:03
Yeah, we just talked about that on an episode or two ago, talking about balancing growth with profit. And, you know, you, you get I think it was, a conversation with a fractional CFO and you get, different opinions because someone who sits behind a spreadsheet is going to really want to dial in profit. and someone who sits, you know, on in front of ads, they're going to want to really, you know, hypergrowth, But you really do have to have a balance.
Lee Murray
00:29:31
And I like the analogy of getting healthy. I'm curious though, kind of. On a separate note, when you would bring on these, customers directly, what was retention like? Because would they come on and like take a course and then they're done? or would they have any did you have any other products that you could expand them into?
Jason Schappert
00:29:50
Yeah, that was one thing, that I accidentally stumbled into and did very well. The same friend who told me, you don't have to get it right. You just have to get it going is the same one that told me, hey, there's this thing called a subscription based business. It's like the latest rage right now. And I'm telling you, I think you should do it. This is, 2008, roughly. And I'm going. You want me to sell becoming a pilot as a subscription? I'm like, okay, so I made three tiers gold, silver, bronze, 97 a month, 127 a month, 147 a month. A good logical progression.
Jason Schappert
00:30:26
Yeah, it's still that way to this day, except prices have gone up, obviously. And for we kind of follow the Netflix model before Netflix did it for one membership, you get access to all our courses. So the premise has always been, well, they became a private pilot, but here's the next level, which is like, you're a freshman and now you're going to go be a sophomore kind of thing, like get better. You know, you, you know, you need to do it. You should do it. I'm not going to cancel just yet, because I'm probably going to do it here soon. And and people would stick around and we did we were in the multi years of, of our average customer retention rate.
Lee Murray
00:31:03
Yeah. Okay. So was that a difficult thing decision to make at that point. Because that's you know early on SaaS models are were like you know yeah this is a great idea. But is it sort of pie in the sky.
Jason Schappert
00:31:15
It is. It is still a difficult decision to this day.
Jason Schappert
00:31:19
here's the crazy thing. if you went through our Zendesk, I guarantee you once a week someone messages in saying, hey, I'd love to sign up, but I'm not into the subscription model. Your competitor offers your course one time for 300 bucks. And you know what, I. As much as that hurts. You cannot look at one loud person and change your whole business because of one loud person on Zendesk or YouTube or whatever, but but those do come in and they hurt if you focus on them. But then you go, okay, I've got one loud person over there versus I've got 10,000 paying customers over there. I think people vote with their wallets. Oh for sure. Yes, he voted differently and we're all that. That's a democracy, right? You're allowed to vote however you want. Right. honestly, I feel bad for my competitors that are selling one course for $300 when I know what my lifetime value is, you know, times a month. one customer is very, very valuable to us.
Jason Schappert
00:32:18
So. Yeah, but you're right. Early on, it was very hard to stay the course because people were saying, this is a sticking point, we don't want to do this. But they did.
Lee Murray
00:32:28
Yeah. Okay. So you started you switch your model back in oh eight around that time, and then you stuck with it, obviously. take us through, you know, what's the next stage for you? You lay off some people, get lean. Now what?
Jason Schappert
00:32:43
So we've jumped forward several years from from oh eight. If we're laying people off and everything else and and, and get lean and we really begin to adopt a new mantra. and by the way, I didn't share this, but this was all bootstrapped. Like, I'm not talking I didn't take any investors, no VC money. So it wasn't like we were some crazy Silicon Valley startup just burning dollars like this was hard earned cash that we were spending.
Lee Murray
00:33:08
awesome. Yeah. You had an idea, and it worked.
Jason Schappert
00:33:10
Yeah, exactly.
Jason Schappert
00:33:11
You're exactly right. And we're bootstrapping the next business as well, because that's that's I enjoy it. I really enjoy it. but, the mindset shifted for that core team. So now we're down, even through by letting some people go, some people left voluntarily because I let their friends go. So there were there were some cultural wounds we had to heal. And I learned a lot about culture. I thought I thought business was just business, right? I just wanted to talk about airplanes and and help people out and make a little money at it. I didn't realize I'm balancing office politics. I'm balancing culture. And that's something I wasn't really ready for. And then again, I've had these mentors along my life that have just dropped these nuggets, and I should probably reach out to them because they didn't even know they've dropped nuggets I'm still using to this day. Yeah, but one one just came to my mind when I was complaining about this negative culture. Like it seemed like they were against me, against each other, everything else.
Jason Schappert
00:34:06
And he said to me, you will get the culture you tolerate. I thought, oh, that's, that's good, because I am. I'm just putting up with this like I am just being the punching bag because here I am feeling guilty. I let all these people go like I'm such a jerk. And I began to believe that. And then they would throw the jabs. I'm like, well, I just deserve it, you know? And I was tolerating this. Us versus Jason kind of culture. And when I finally stood up. not like this roaring jerk lion or anything like that, but stood up and said, hey, this is our vision. We're not here to fight against Jason and what Jason did. We're here to make people actually safer in an airplane. Like when we changed our mindset. And I've been saying this now for several years. At the end of the day, we are teaching people to take a hunk of metal through the sky at 120 knots and do it safely with their spouse and with their kids, and eventually one day, to propel their career.
Jason Schappert
00:35:01
And when you stop thinking about, I'm doing this for Jason, and you think about the people you're actually teaching, and you read the comments of like, hey, it's it's so amazing still to this day. And I say this humbly, you can go walk on a Delta aircraft and the pile will look back and go, I know that guy. I did his courses, but that's pretty. That's the full circle of doing it this long going, wow, that guy started with us knowing nothing. And now he's in his dream office up front of an Airbus A320 for Delta. That's all. That's so when we change the mindset of who are we doing this for? I begin to change the culture. But you had to work out there's some bad actors in there and everything else. and they're good people. Just, To go back to Jim Collins, you have to have the right people in the right seats. And to take the analogy even further, on the right bus. Yeah, right. Like, should they even be on the bus, forget about their seat.
Jason Schappert
00:35:53
Should they be on this bus with me right now? That's right. Yeah. And you've got to look at that sometimes too.
Lee Murray
00:35:57
Yeah. Culture is a hard one. especially but but I think at the timing though, probably helped for it to kind of, all happen at once where you had, you were forced to look at it, versus it being a slow burn and wondering, why is this so painful? so, so yeah, that's that's that's such a great wisdom. Yeah.
Jason Schappert
00:36:18
So, just jumping a little more forward back to the the seed we planted about. In every adversity, there's a seed of greater advantage. We're now a lean team. I don't know, say 12 people or so. This this just tight knit core group. Like, we're going on retreats together. We we went on a cruise together. Like, we're just this tight knit group just all having fun, but all focused on this mission. And then this thing called covet happens. And, you know, we're in the process of building this $3 million office.
Jason Schappert
00:36:48
Like, we're all doing great. And I go, wow, we need to all go remote now. And Covid wasn't as bad in Florida as you remember as it was in other places. But still, we we all went remote and everyone was scared because, as you can imagine, imagine what Covid did to the aviation industry. Like if you are teaching pilots like pilots are getting laid off left and right, you could run. You could have been a flying for Delta one day and being a Starbucks barista the next day. Yeah. you know, it was pilots getting laid off. So the team was like freaking out. Like, what are we going to do? Said, we can turn this for good, right? Let's change our marketing message. Hey, you're laid off or you're stuck at home. Or maybe you got laid off from your IT job, but you always dreamed of being a pilot. Now is your time to do it.
Lee Murray
00:37:35
Time to level up.
Jason Schappert
00:37:36
We were. We were already all online.
Jason Schappert
00:37:38
We were already ready for this. While colleges and everything else were scrambling and couldn't even take the aviation students. We're saying, come here. We'll just get started now. Let the college figured out. You can go to them eventually, but get started here. So we just turned on. I mean, Covid happened in March. By April, end of March, we had that marketing campaign up and we were targeting IT industry, these industries that had intense layoffs. It's time for a career change. Yes, people are getting laid off in aviation, but now is the time because it takes out four years to get from zero to the airlines. Now's the time to start that four year process and do it now. And sure enough, look how we came out of Covid. So much stronger economically. Everything else. and we while many industries shrank, we genuinely thrived. And a lot of it was just serendipitous luck because we're already online. I mean, that's our whole business was we'd do anything in person.
Jason Schappert
00:38:32
Yeah, it was already there. We just saw an opportunity and and ran with it. And I hate to say Covid was an opportunity. That sounds a little messed up. So please don't. Don't.
Lee Murray
00:38:41
Well, you you took a bad situation and it's, you know, created an opportunity from it.
Jason Schappert
00:38:45
Absolutely. And that's what was the springboard for, for I mean, we were profitable by then, but that was like life changing kind of profitability. That's what got the the private equity firms to start sniffing around and going, who's this who grows during Covid. Right. Like that's unheard of. so that's what kind of started this. I wasn't looking for an exit. They they came to us. But even that's a story all in itself. Sure.
Lee Murray
00:39:11
So yeah. Okay. So that's 2020. It's crazy. We're four years in. and so you, you were operating for how many more months or years until you exited?
Jason Schappert
00:39:24
We exited in February of 2024, so. Oh, wow. Yeah.
Jason Schappert
00:39:29
but, it's interesting to even how that happened. We weren't looking for that. And thankfully we actually had a PE firm come to us before that, before the one that actually bought us. And I'm so thankful they did. And if anybody listening, I know we're deep in the podcast, but if I give any advice to make sure they focus on this mistake we made, we lost the first deal and it worked out well. It was a much lower number, everything else. But we lost the first deal. Yeah. the reason we lost the first deal goes back to an idea I've been sharing with you is just running this like a mom and pop business without a lot of constraints, without a lot of guardrails. Like, we tuned up some departments and stuff. But one area I never tuned up was accounting. Like you are looking at the guy who was reconciling the books at the end of every month. And and again, I'm sure no one from the IRS is listening. It really doesn't matter because we sold the business anyways.
Jason Schappert
00:40:23
Yeah, but I'm sure I'm not the only founder owner who has gone to Publix and, you know, bought groceries and categorized it in QuickBooks as, you know, office meals or, or whatever it is. Like, I, I know I'm not the only person who's done that. All right. So so don't I mean, you can you can hate on me. That's fine. But I guarantee we've all been clever with how we reconcile something. Expenses in QuickBooks. And the first P firm looked at this and went, this, this is a mess. Like this is a spiderweb of stuff. You went to Publix here and you did this and you you were speaking in Europe, but you you stayed at the Ritz-Carlton. That was awfully like, you know, it's just all this other stuff, like it was like kind of a business trip, a kind of vacation, like. Yeah, yeah. They said, I'm sure it's a great business, but we don't have the time to work through the spiderweb of of numbers, you know, figure it out.
Jason Schappert
00:41:14
So I'm like, wow. Like, I lost the deal because of my poor organization, which is rare for a pilot. Pilots are very following checklist. Everything else but surprising when you start co-mingling your expenses and these sort of things. I said, wow, I've got a I've got to clean this up. And my wife and I spent, I don't know, six, seven, eight months, you know, it was time to graduate from the little small town CPA to the, say, the bigger firm in Orlando or something like that. Still still a medium sized firm not going like KPMG with skyscrapers or anything like that. But but a but a bigger accounting firm. Yeah. to help out a real bookkeeper. and we cleaned up our books and, sure enough, within 3 or 4 months of finally getting the books all in line, the next the next one came to us yet again. We weren't seeking it out and using it. Even that brought interesting things, like when you're not looking for it and you're not ready for it.
Jason Schappert
00:42:09
I didn't have the legal team ready. I didn't have all these, you know, it was just Jason and my wife Magda, trying to figure stuff out, and we did. But, as sad as I was about losing the first deal, I wouldn't have got the second deal without them. You know, really prepared us for such a great.
Lee Murray
00:42:27
Kind of bump in the road by going back to that adversary and advantages that of diversity is, it's awesome to be able to have adversity and and see what it is, you know, take the wisdom from it and utilize that in different contexts. that's that's what I'm pulling out of it. Absolutely. That's that's awesome. I mean, that's such a, such a great, kind of into the story. So, so tell us about how it all ended up.
Jason Schappert
00:42:54
we we made our beautiful eight figure exit, whirlwind of emotions. Almost lost that deal a few times. again, given any advice to anybody who will be in those shoes soon? this is not an area to go cheap on your legal team.
Jason Schappert
00:43:11
Like, you can't just have, you know, your local business attorney or your friend who's a divorce attorney, like, please don't do that. Like, this is the time to step up and spend the 400 bucks an hour. I know it's a lot. Yeah, but that's an area to really spend the money. Because when you deal with these private equity firms, they're throwing you 80 page contracts and everything else. You just can't you can't understand it all. that's the area stuff and and the tax planning to, if I was going to spend, if I was going to do it again, I would step up with a, a team of attorneys and a team of tax planners, to help with, with that aspect of things. But we made the exit and it was 24 hours of celebration. And then like followed by 24 hours of literally like kind of I don't want to say the D word depression because I don't, I don't I don't want that. But I know it was a little sad, honestly.
Jason Schappert
00:44:01
Yeah. I mean, it was think about it. It's your it's your baby. Yeah. For the past 16 years, you nursed it, you almost lost it. You had to take it back to the hospital. You had you hated it. It got sick many times. like. And you just. And now it's gone.
Lee Murray
00:44:17
Yeah. Now it's off to college.
Jason Schappert
00:44:19
Exactly. It's off. It's not gone. Right. It's off to college to get better, bigger, stronger and help more people. Yeah. And that's how you have to look at it. But it, it's still, there were some moments where it where it hurt and, but we went right back to it, like we were very, very passionate. To your point earlier, was my passion aviation or business? it is it is business. for us and, I love I love aviation, I love, I love serving people and helping people. I love taking a complex subject and breaking it down into plain English. And that's really why we're launching, the, the next business and.
Lee Murray
00:44:55
The next business is the current business, which is moolah. And tell us about moolah.
Jason Schappert
00:45:00
Yeah. So moolah, grew out of aviation. Oddly enough, it is a financial technology company investing savings, budgeting in much, much sexier terms than that. I'll share. But how it really started for me was from the airplane. In my airplane, I have six instruments that are plastered right in front of me. Those six instruments tell me what just happened 30s ago, what's happening right now and what's likely to happen in the next 30s if I keep doing what I'm doing. Climbing, descending, turning. Why don't I have the same thing in my finances? I log into my Wells Fargo account and it just shows me a balance. Like that's not I don't know what's coming, what's going where. It's just lower today. Like, I don't know why. Why is it lower today? Oh, I have Netflix, Hulu, Paramount+ and HBO Max. And I don't even realize because they're so small of charges they sneak through the cracks, but they add up to 30 bucks a month total.
Jason Schappert
00:45:53
Like, I want to be that detective. The instrument panel that shows that so much is geared towards that 3035 year old that's making decent money, but has more month than they have money. Like they have holes in their pockets. They don't know why. It's no different than my aviation business. 16 years ago I was making money, but it was just going right back out that pocket, and I couldn't figure it out and know how to stop the bleeding. It is, It is your. It is your bank. It is your debit card. so we're issuing debit cards, everything else, it's your investing platform. So think of it like a plain English. hate to use a competitor, but like a plain English Robinhood or something like that component to it as well. Because investing people believe the system is rigged against them. And while it's not rigged against you, it's certainly not friendly to you as well. but the biggest aspect of it all for us, Lee, is we're teachers at heart, and financial literacy is crucial for us.
Jason Schappert
00:46:48
So I want this to be the bank, the investing platform that you leave smarter. And so we've injected all our courses in there. Understanding your credit score. Should you buy or lease a car? Right. understand your credit report, rent or own a home, all these different things to really help people. All the big banks say we are all for financial literacy. Yeah. At the end of the day, you look at JPMorgan profit loss, they make a lot of money off of NSF fees and off of late fees, but they're all for financial literacy. I hate to call someone out like that, but. But how can you be for financial literacy when you know 10% of your income is off NSF fees? That's not fair. They would never cancel them because they would lose too much money. Yeah, they almost make money off of their customers being ignorant and being late and, and and I'm here to really break that down and help people get on their journey towards financial freedom. I've made it.
Jason Schappert
00:47:40
I've lost it and made it again. And let me tell you, it's way better when you have it. So I'm just here. I'm here to show people how to get it and how to keep it.
Lee Murray
00:47:48
Yeah, it's it's way better when you when you have it and you keep it and you have a foundation, a new mindset of of what you're doing with it, you know, instead of just having it because it's going to go away again if you don't have that mindset. So I'm curious. So, you know, we just got done talking about how you were had your accounts sort of, you know, quote unquote co-mingled and you're doing different spending stuff. And that was a hurdle for you to sell your company. Yeah. How much did that play into this company concept? And, and kind of where did you find the passion for personal finance or investing?
Jason Schappert
00:48:27
I found the person. I found the passion for it because I didn't know it. I had to go get my MBA in it, not my real MBA.
Jason Schappert
00:48:33
I'm talking like school of Hard knocks kind of MBA, to figure everything out. And that's where this really grew out of. And to your point, it's so funny. Take 16 years of just beating up the pavement to grow this business. And I look at what we've done in nine months with moolah like it is. It's exponential growth, right? It wasn't just starting with, you know, 12 views on YouTube or whatever it is, like, you take these things you've learned like business is business, no matter what niche you're in now, you can't go into it thinking entrepreneurs make the mistake of thinking, I've got the Midas touch. This last thing worked. It must work again. Like you got to be humble. Back to humility. You don't have the Midas touch. Nobody does. but you do have the street smarts and the knowledge that you can apply to that next business. And that's what's really allowed us to experience that growth. But, when, when we begin to make money and I knew I wanted to manage that money ourselves and be self-directed and avoid fees from these large brokerage accounts, and it was just hard to find, hard to set up, hard to get the data.
Jason Schappert
00:49:36
you know, Wall Street is very protective of what they have and their certificates and everything else. So I just wanted to break it all down and plain English for for that 30 year old nurse who works 12 hour shifts is absolutely exhausted. She makes great money, but just needs a little help in the finance department. Like, I'm not trying to make a bunch of day traders. I'm trying to target the 30 year old nurse who wants to make one investment, you know, recurring 100 bucks every week and set herself up for financial freedom in the next ten, 15, 20 years. Like we're teaching this long term strategy. I'm not. This is not some get rich quick thing. So if you're looking for that moolah is not that this is back to that million mile march every day, putting one foot in front of the other. And you're going to see results with compound interest. Yeah.
Lee Murray
00:50:21
You know, it's a noble it's a noble cause. And I still see, I think now more than ever, such a huge gap in the market that you're filling.
Lee Murray
00:50:28
Because when I look back, probably now 15 years ago or so, I used to be in the employee benefit business where consulting. So I go into companies, and we would meet with the company and establish what the employee benefits were going to be, and we'd create a package of everything, including health insurance and whatever. And we were licensed into various things. And then we'd sit with their employees during enrollment, and we would give them our options and try to educate them as much as we could in the ten minutes that they sat in front of us and try to help them make good decisions. Yeah, but I can tell you, just seeing that industry, both the investment and the insurance industry, that it is all about overrides, it's all about fees. And the education is like, to your point, is very minimal. and you end up with employees that their real only tracks are to get it from the person who sits in front of them. And there's a lot of times don't even sit in front of them.
Lee Murray
00:51:25
It's just links that they have to click through, which are predicated on an agent or broker relationship that is all based on certain funds that they want to put you in. so they say they're, they're they're kind of not privy to certain things, but they are. so your your options are very, very limited. And the only other option is to go out on YouTube or, you know, maybe Charles Schwab and, and try to get some education. But there again, you're getting a one note education, right? there's not really there hasn't really been, to my knowledge. but I haven't really done a lot of research on it. A third party that can give you, you know, this educated, dashboard and help you to make a decision that's a little bit more broad. and more and more, more broad meaning more education and more focused on what it is for your particular situation. So. Yeah, I think that's a great, gap filler.
Jason Schappert
00:52:21
Yeah. It even goes further than that.
Jason Schappert
00:52:23
Like, what if your 401 K, if it's not self-directed, is investing in things that you don't believe in, right. Look at the moral aspect of this. What if somebody is is anti-war? They'd probably be pretty sad to learn that most of their funds are in Lockheed Martin or something like that. Like they wouldn't be happy about that, right? So we kind of spell that out. I think one of the most important things on the investing side is what does this company do? Yes, it's a great investment, but if you don't believe in it, like, what good is making money on that as well? So looking back at values and risk tolerances and everything else, I didn't realize that was part of your background doing that. But you you were spot on. Most people don't realize their 401 K is riddled with fees and they're just all excited. I'm getting an employer match. Yeah, yeah, but after the fees and everything else, you're really not getting an employer match. Because I'll just take him back out.
Jason Schappert
00:53:10
Yeah, yeah.
Lee Murray
00:53:11
Yeah, it's, it's it's kind of a it's kind of a trap. you know, a lot of investing, in my view, is, boils down to fees, because you can make a great return. maybe, you know, but when it comes down to the how much fees are being taken out, your return is just barely creeping over inflation. And these days, inflation is high enough to match that return. So yes, you really gaining anything. You're just sort of staying stagnant, right.
Jason Schappert
00:53:37
You were exactly, exactly right with that. And that's the education. We like the fed cut rates I don't want to date this podcast, but the fed cut rates fairly recently and ask the most do a man on the street interview. Most people wouldn't know what that means. No, honestly. What does that mean for upcoming mortgage? Why haven't mortgage rates gone down just yet? I thought the fed cut rates. Well, that's actually the discount. You just got to explain all this to people.
Jason Schappert
00:53:59
And, like Tony Robbins says, I actually think Jim Rohn said it first. Knowledge isn't power, it's potential power. So I can teach all this stuff. But at the end of the day, people still have to go out and apply it. Just like they can listen to this podcast and hopefully they got that one nugget they're going to run with. Yeah, that's the action step.
Lee Murray
00:54:16
Yeah. It's been a lot of nuggets by the way. So I appreciate that. Oh for this business is it, is it a subscription based or is it fee based or what's it how does that work?
Jason Schappert
00:54:26
It is it is subscription based. We charge 599 a month and everything. It's your money. That's essentially how it works. I don't want to riddle people with fees, and everything else is going to be as transparent as possible. We're we are very, very blessed financially. This is not only a way to to give back. of course we will be a profitable business with that. Right? But, that's the most important part is just increasing financial literacy and giving people an outlet to make investments, knowing that they're safe, protected, insured, everything else.
Lee Murray
00:54:55
Love it. This has been a great conversation. I mean, all ton of wisdom that you've dropped here and one of the kind of monikers for my podcast is Practical Wisdom. That's really the goal of this is to to deliver practical wisdom. And I can't think of I mean, you've delivered so much wisdom and very practical to. So thank you. Thank you for that.
Jason Schappert
00:55:15
Thank you. That's awesome man. I really, really appreciate our time. And, appreciate your listeners and everything else. They want to learn more. They can find us all. Our social media is, moolah co-pilot. I just think the aviation term in there. And now co-pilot's like the cool AI buzzword to use. I'm like, wow, I was I was like, cutting edge on something. Yeah. Microsoft has their co-pilot help it. Yeah. I'm like, wow, this is this was cool. So yeah. Moolah copilot from TikTok all the way through LinkedIn, wherever you want to find us. we are there if you want to, if you want to follow and see and kind of check all that out and then do.
Lee Murray
00:55:47
Personally on LinkedIn.
Jason Schappert
00:55:48
Yeah, on LinkedIn and everything else, add me there. Be happy to happy to have you follow there as well.
Lee Murray
00:55:53
That's great. Well, we'll have to catch back up with you in another year or so and see how you guys are doing. And I love that. What kind of growth pains you're going through?
Jason Schappert
00:56:00
I would love that, my friend. Thank you so much.
Lee Murray
00:56:02
Yeah, thanks a lot.