10 Reasons Sales Reps Fail with Joe Pici
On this week's episode of Exploring Growth, host Lee Murray speaks with Joe Pici, one of the best sales trainers in the world. Listen as they discuss the top 10 ways that sales can fail, including the importance of consistently using your CRM, treating sales as a craft that requires skill-building, and understanding your customer's needs.
If you're a small business owner, a mid-sized company sales team, or a marketer looking to align yourself with sales, this podcast is for you. You're sure to learn valuable insights and strategies that will help you improve your sales game.
If you are enjoying what you hear, please consider sharing it with a colleague or a friend.
Have a guest recommendation, question, or just want to connect?
Go here: https://www.harvardmurray.com/exploring-growth-podcast
Connect with Joe - https://www.linkedin.com/in/joepici
00:00:00:02 - 00:00:25:22
Speaker 1
All right. Welcome back to Exploring Growth Podcast. So glad you're back here today. We have a dynamic conversation with Joe Pesci, who is literally the number one sales trainer in the world, which is kind of crazy. We have an amazing conversation about the ten reasons salespeople, owners of businesses fail at sales. Glad to be back. I've got Joe Pesci on here.
00:00:26:10 - 00:00:27:07
Speaker 1
Thanks for being on, Joe.
00:00:28:14 - 00:00:29:12
Speaker 2
Hey, my pleasure.
00:00:29:13 - 00:00:56:08
Speaker 1
It's good to see you again. I haven't seen in a while and been a while. And, you know, I always enjoyed working with you, talking with you about sales. And so I thought today would be a great day to have a good sales conversation and and to keep our focus on what we're talking about. I thought maybe we could just kind of dial in on missteps that you see with salespeople and and just maybe kind of have that be the basis of our conversation.
00:00:57:10 - 00:01:07:11
Speaker 1
You know, I think there's a lot of sales reps out there that could get benefit from this and a lot of small CEOs or owners that are still kind of selling that could get benefit, you know, as they're growing.
00:01:07:18 - 00:01:08:07
Speaker 2
Absolutely.
00:01:08:13 - 00:01:25:13
Speaker 1
You know, you are in front of a lot of salespeople and a lot of small business owners that are selling themselves still. So you see a lot. Right. I mean, you've probably seen it all at this point. I mean, the last time I looked, you were the what were you number one or number two in the world?
00:01:26:00 - 00:01:44:01
Speaker 2
Yeah, well, in the last five years, I've gone anywhere from number one to number four and back and forth. But the best part is our sales training program or our boot camp for three straight years we're waiting for the tally on the fourth year has been the number one sales training workshop in the world by globally.
00:01:44:01 - 00:01:45:13
Speaker 1
I believe it. I believe it is.
00:01:45:20 - 00:01:56:00
Speaker 2
And so we get anything from entry level salespeople to 37 year vets to CEOs of big companies to small companies. Lot of different people come to that training.
00:01:56:00 - 00:02:38:03
Speaker 1
I believe, because I took the training and I got immense value from it. And it wasn't just the sales training. There was a lot of contextualized staff about behavior and decision making. That's that I could see, like, you know, I have a big backer on many, many almost a decade in sales. And and so, you know, speaking to the nature of your training as a kind of quasi sales veteran, coming through that training was like it was like clarity again, you know, like I got more clarity as to, okay, messaging, here's my audience and I can say the right words, you know, in front of the right people the right way.
00:02:38:10 - 00:02:57:18
Speaker 1
And it takes a lot of pressure off of of me as a salesperson. I could I can get back to the fundamentals. So, yeah, I completely agree. And anybody that hasn't looked at your course, we'll link all that below. So they can they can take a look at that. But let's talk about missteps that salespeople make. What you know, what comes to mind when you think of that?
00:02:58:11 - 00:03:25:22
Speaker 2
Oh, there's a lot of them. But let me give you a few. Number one, they never really mastered the skills. They they mistake marketing with sales and marketing to me and the Joe ism is what you do externally to drive leads to you. That's the outside funnel. But sales is when you take those leads, however you generate them and you want to have a conversation with the decision makers.
00:03:25:22 - 00:03:49:04
Speaker 2
So there are so, you know, and there's a lot of great sales trainers out there. They're magnificent. The majority of them work more in motivation and strategy. And what we've learned is that if we don't equip people with the skills, how to pick up that phone, book, an appointment, how to do a consultative sales meeting, how to read communication styles, how to negotiate.
00:03:49:14 - 00:04:01:22
Speaker 2
So I think the first misstep that sales professionals make is they mistake marketing with sales. The second is they don't spend enough time at mastering the fundamental skills.
00:04:02:23 - 00:04:37:05
Speaker 1
Yeah, you know what? That's that's right on point. I see that all the time, too. And the way I would say it is, I think a lot of salespeople, they view it as a job and not a craft. And those salespeople that actually want to get better as a practitioner of what they do, like, you know, anybody else that really takes their craft seriously, those are the people who will eventually fully understand the fundamentals and implement them on a daily, daily basis.
00:04:37:05 - 00:04:50:19
Speaker 1
They will they will build a skill set that they can't help but deploy. It will be not only in the sales role, but it'll be in their personal life as well. I know you've seen that too.
00:04:50:19 - 00:05:16:19
Speaker 2
But, you know, it's funny because salespeople, a lot of them, they take a Dale Carnegie class and then for 20 years they think I'm okay yet doctors, lawyers, realtor, they have ongoing training and so you know sales and I don't really believe that people should sell or train sales out of charisma and talent because there's not a lot of people with that.
00:05:17:06 - 00:05:30:16
Speaker 2
So we believe more in processing, messaging and skills. And if those are quantifiable and those are teachable and learnable, then anyone can learn to sell if they want to sell.
00:05:30:23 - 00:06:08:02
Speaker 1
100%. You know, one thing that I saw with you that I think is very different than what I've the training I've gotten in the past is that it's hyper practical. It's not just theory, but it's the actual practice, you know, it's like, okay, we're actually gonna pick up the phone and say words. And I think there's, there's a lot of merit to that, you know, especially today, you know, the rubber is not fully on the road with a lot of people.
00:06:08:02 - 00:06:33:20
Speaker 2
Well, you know, I don't believe in role play. I believe in role play. The number one hardest thing for a sales professional business owner to do is to take a prospect lead. We have 20 ways we generate leads, but to take a lead, then pick up the phone and if it's B2B, navigate the gatekeeper, get to the right person, or if it's B2C, what do they say?
00:06:34:04 - 00:06:57:09
Speaker 2
And you really can't teach that in theory. And that's why in all of our sales training, a component is like outbound telephone call training, which is one of our uniqueness. Yes. Which is? It doesn't make things better or worse, but it does have a uniqueness to it. And every I mean, in our three day sales bootcamp, we allow 26 people, we'll have 18 different industries represented.
00:06:57:09 - 00:07:19:01
Speaker 2
Okay, we'll have entry level to 37 years in the industry, but on day three, we're going to make 90 minutes to 2 hours of outbound calls. We've never done less than 72% conversion to appointment. We navigate 90% of the gatekeepers and we get same day return phone calls because that is a major focus of what we do.
00:07:19:05 - 00:07:43:03
Speaker 1
It shows that process. Having a system of what you work by is paramount. You know something? I would I'm interested to kind of hear your response rebuttal, you know, philosophically here is that I think a lot of people would say the phone is dead. Right. I mean, I know you I know where you stand on this because I've been, you know, in the conversations.
00:07:43:03 - 00:08:06:11
Speaker 1
But it's really hard to get especially a younger sales force. You know, I'm going into these companies working with some of these salespeople. It's hard to get them to think about the even remotely the concept of picking up a phone. They they think, well, why would you do that? No one's going to answer the phone. And so, I mean, what's your take on that?
00:08:06:11 - 00:08:10:00
Speaker 1
If I were that person, how would you convince me that? You know?
00:08:10:06 - 00:08:44:12
Speaker 2
Well, number one, when I go into a company and I'm working with their sales team, I have to get by it. So you get by a number one by giving statistical data. Since the era of cyber security, you know, there's a lot of companies that do not allow their people to open up an unsolicited email. So one of the largest email marketing companies in the entire country, if you really put their feet to the fire, they say a cold email has about a 4% open rate.
00:08:44:12 - 00:09:14:00
Speaker 2
Now, if you're going to have the initial outreach, I we do much better than 4%. The second thing is people are misusing LinkedIn. They're now using LinkedIn like email marketing and people are getting tired of it. They're getting these long, convoluted messages to which they don't even read. So we have a process by which we use LinkedIn. 91% of our business is now coming from LinkedIn leads.
00:09:14:00 - 00:09:40:13
Speaker 2
But I get I get on the phone right away. And so I would go head to head with any marketing approach and use the phone as an initial outreach. I just worked with 26 AFLAC agents here in town in Orlando. The majority of them had never made outbound call calls or calling in to a cold market. Now, all these calls that we train are not just cold weather.
00:09:40:13 - 00:10:06:19
Speaker 2
It's warm, cold and hot. But they're working in a cold market. These are people that hadn't done it before. All they did was bring in lists. They had no idea who they were calling with cell phones and calendars. And in the course of an hour and a half, we had about a 72% conversion to appointment. We literally got through 92% of the gatekeepers.
00:10:06:19 - 00:10:30:23
Speaker 2
And in the afternoon the phone started ringing and they said, Well, why does this work? Because this thing of the phone is dead. The phone is not dead. You may get a no answer, but what is it that you do? What is the message you leave? Okay, everything we do is highly scripted. And, you know, CEOs will say, you know, my people don't like scripts.
00:10:30:23 - 00:10:51:10
Speaker 2
And then I kind of laugh and I go, well, the best actors in the world use scripts, right? Pacino. Brando, they're all Italian and and that and only they know their scripts so well. So I don't argue with people, but proof positive. When we're in a training room, we get resounding results using the phone.
00:10:51:10 - 00:11:33:12
Speaker 1
I cannot think of a more challenging scenario than the one you gave an AFLAC agent that hasn't done it before. Cold calling someone with a product that is ubiquitous. That's a very challenging scenario to get those conversion rates is is pretty is pretty awesome and you know the way it is. So we're we're we're aligned in this thinking as a marketer, primarily the way I think about it is I and I have always been this way is I am channel agnostic so or tool agnostic so I don't ever say that anything is dead.
00:11:33:17 - 00:12:09:05
Speaker 1
And the reason why is because it all depends on several factors that go into how you use it. So for example, I play in the B2B space primarily. So B2B is different than B2C, it's different than B to B to C, right? So so you have you have so many different scenarios in which a channel or tactic or tool can be utilized if it's put in the hands of someone who is a practitioner and understands that tool, like a carpenter with a, you know, nail gun, let's say.
00:12:09:11 - 00:12:29:14
Speaker 1
Right. They know all the ways it works, how it works. Then you can be, you know, so much more effective. So direct mail is not dead. You know, signs on the side of a bus are not dead. What I hear you saying is, assuming that is all true, it comes back to messaging. So when you pick right.
00:12:29:15 - 00:12:31:04
Speaker 2
It's all about all of it.
00:12:31:04 - 00:12:47:09
Speaker 1
Pick up the phone what you say, because you've got. They picked up the phone. Well, now the phone is not dead so far. Now we're going to say words that's going to dictate your conversion rate. So the words you say are the most important part, and that plays through with marketing as well.
00:12:48:16 - 00:13:09:18
Speaker 2
Well, you know, I not only do I work with outbound, I work with a lot of companies and I have a very big B, the C market and a very big B, the B market and our B2B market is anything from small, medium and large. And the reason why I don't target an industry or size is because our niche is what we do, not who we use.
00:13:09:18 - 00:13:11:08
Speaker 1
For is pricing.
00:13:11:08 - 00:13:38:22
Speaker 2
But I also work with companies that are getting the inbound calls and how do you take that inbound call and have the right messaging to now flip it to an outbound approach? That's vitally important. Okay. And you said the most important word. You said practicing the majority of people in sales, outside sales where they have to go get it.
00:13:38:23 - 00:14:05:08
Speaker 2
92% of those quit in 18 months. Right. Why is there such a high failure in business today? We're in a 92% failure rate in startup businesses. There's only one reason why you go out of business. There's only one reason why you quit sales, because you don't get enough clients. Right. And once you master client acquisition and the game is over.
00:14:05:08 - 00:14:05:20
Speaker 1
Of of.
00:14:06:14 - 00:14:12:02
Speaker 2
Which goes back to the number three reason why people ask are you ready.
00:14:12:02 - 00:14:13:06
Speaker 1
For it? Hit me with it.
00:14:14:21 - 00:14:36:03
Speaker 2
They don't count the costs of what it takes to be successful in that particular business. They get in for the sizzle and not the steak. They don't spend time with people that have done it long enough. Like if I was going into what you did, I would pay you to coach me for a couple days to see if I was willing to do what you do to be successful.
00:14:36:03 - 00:14:54:02
Speaker 1
Sure, but. But you only would do that because you have the wisdom now to know that that's what you have to do to be successful is you need to know will you commit? But if they don't have that wisdom, a lot of people don't that get into it. They get into for all the wrong reasons and therefore it becomes a job.
00:14:54:10 - 00:15:09:07
Speaker 1
And that job is measured in ill weighs, you know, by themselves and sometimes their manager. Because I think that's another misstep, too, is managers and how they're, you know, leading their salespeople. Maybe you want to say a few words about that.
00:15:09:07 - 00:15:09:17
Speaker 2
Well.
00:15:10:03 - 00:15:11:20
Speaker 1
Because I know you said you've seen a lot of that.
00:15:13:04 - 00:15:37:20
Speaker 2
Others leaders and managers. And what happens in companies all the time, they take a produce survey and they go, you are now going to be the sales manager. Now, the minute they become the sales manager, usually their income drops because they're not getting the commissions they were getting. You'll get some override. Number two, they weren't trained in management, they weren't trained in training and they weren't trained in leadership.
00:15:37:20 - 00:16:02:08
Speaker 2
But they're good people. And all of a sudden they they look at how they've done things and they go, what's their problem? Yep. Right. And it goes really more to a personality approach, rather. And Chet Holmes, who was the probably best sales strategist out there many years ago and he passed away years ago.
00:16:02:08 - 00:16:12:23
Speaker 1
But I know Chet Holmes and I know I know him well. Actually, back in my sales days, I would stay up at night studying his his PowerPoints and everything. They were amazing.
00:16:13:06 - 00:16:39:07
Speaker 2
It's great, he said. So the worst way you can train a person is to take a new person and put him with a veteran and let the new person mirror the veteran. And that is the lowest form of training. Yeah. Okay, so, so really I'm a big advocate, not because I have a training company, but I don't think you can train enough.
00:16:39:20 - 00:17:08:15
Speaker 2
Okay. When it comes to sales, communications, messaging and and the thing that I like about what we do is our training always pays for itself because they write business right that way. And so I you know, it's almost like, you know, it didn't cost them anything. But that's why when we opened up this company, we decided we would only train speaking, coaching, consulting on what we do every day in our own business to grow our business.
00:17:08:15 - 00:17:33:05
Speaker 1
Yeah, the proof is in the in the pudding, so to speak. You know what you're doing? You're teaching. I'm a big fan of that also because, you know, obviously I have my consulting side and then I have Signal Media, which is the content agency. So, you know, part of the reason why I pull my hair out to have that side of it is because I like to be close to the front lines and see what's happening and B, have my hands actually in the work.
00:17:33:12 - 00:17:57:02
Speaker 1
Because if I'm going to come over here and give advice on what to do purely and that's what they're paying me for, I need it to be rooted in something that is actually true. So I'm a big fan of people who are giving advice based on what they know to be true. You know, first, first person versus it being, Oh, I read a blog and you know, it may or may not be true.
00:17:58:18 - 00:18:24:10
Speaker 2
You know, one one of the things I get all the time from potential clients is, well, Joe, we had someone in here before and we really never got what we were looking for. And then I asked them this question, how did you vet them? Yeah, I mean, I tell clients you can call 100% of my clients and any of them that tell you they didn't get what they were looking for it.
00:18:24:10 - 00:18:32:19
Speaker 2
And don't hire me. I mean, I'm looking at my whiteboard back there. That's three months of proposals, just three.
00:18:32:19 - 00:18:35:16
Speaker 1
That's also very old school.
00:18:35:16 - 00:18:37:00
Speaker 2
Well, it is. It is.
00:18:37:00 - 00:18:41:18
Speaker 1
But this is my look. I'm going to look at my whiteboard for myself right here.
00:18:42:22 - 00:19:10:05
Speaker 2
November, December, January. Okay. I've got 135 formal proposals out. You know, I don't say that to brag. I'm only saying that I can't teach something that I'm not consistently doing, you know, and and so sales and marketing is so predicated on is the person who's coming in to do the consulting, are they are they white hot in the now of what's going on.
00:19:11:15 - 00:19:34:12
Speaker 1
So that, you know, talking about the white board being old school it brings me to something else that came to mind when we're planning this talk. And that is something I see a lot because from the marketing side, we, we need to interact in a and be alignment with the sales team like so if you have a marketing and sales team that are trying to work together, marketing, producing, inbound leads, sales, following up, there's other dynamics that are happening.
00:19:35:02 - 00:19:59:05
Speaker 1
One critical tool is a CRM, something that allows them all to, you know, be on the same page. And what I always see happening is and I get it to some extent, but again, it comes back to process. I see that sales, they don't live in their CRM, they don't live in the like. That's your CRM right there on the on the board right now.
00:19:59:06 - 00:20:18:02
Speaker 2
That's just know that that is that is my now but we have a CRM that everything goes into. Right. Okay. Yeah. All the information we send out to Ange we look at our sales are are CRM as support to our sales and a component of course.
00:20:18:02 - 00:20:38:00
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah. Right. So that's one misstep that I see that it's such a simple thing. But again, if you were treating sales as your craft, you would you would come to the realization that a CRM is like your lifeblood, because how do you keep it all up here? You don't. How do you keep it all in your notebook?
00:20:38:00 - 00:21:06:23
Speaker 1
You don't you know, it needs to be synthesized and dynamic and then leveraged all these conversations. And so, you know, if you're a salesperson listening to this right now, you need to get in your CRM and get that thing cleaned up, you know, and tag all of your segmented, you know, tag everybody and get on a rhythm of utilizing that CRM on a daily basis because you will be so glad that you did because all your follow up.
00:21:07:08 - 00:21:35:19
Speaker 2
I mean, I feel bad for people like you. I'll tell you why you are so good with driving leads to a company. I mean, but let me give you the statistic. 93% of inbound leads never get follow go. It's who do they blame? They blame the marketing company. You know, when it's their sales team that is not doing the job, it's you know, I work a lot in the rent to own franchise industry.
00:21:35:19 - 00:21:54:23
Speaker 2
I work with them on sales, I work with them on collections and response time on the leads they get. You got to get to it. You got a nanosecond. We're living in a time where if people fill something out or if they want information, you better have somebody on it right now or you'll go to the next company.
00:21:56:16 - 00:22:25:10
Speaker 2
And so you can do the greatest job in the world. But if that sales team is not urgent about taking those leads and making that call and booking that appointment and starting the sales process, normally the person who hired you is going, What's the problem? Our income hasn't gone up well. The income hasn't gone up because your sales team and you can't really say this, but but I can see as a sales.
00:22:25:12 - 00:22:48:15
Speaker 1
No, I can say what I can say. And I do say yeah, I mean, but it's a it's sort of it's something I have to communicate on the front end whenever we start campaigns because I want them to know where this ends and where it ends is a qualified opportunity that can be fumbled by your people. So are we going to address that first and then run the campaign, or are we going to run the campaign?
00:22:48:15 - 00:22:53:10
Speaker 1
And then when we get good, qualified leads that come in, are we going to address it? Then it's got to be addressed.
00:22:53:22 - 00:23:23:03
Speaker 2
Right quick and and again we here at pitching pitchy. You said, you know, I was ranked number one. You know, we compete with sales training companies that have thousands of people out there who feel training. Right. Well, pitching pitches, BCBG, I can tell you that a lot of the way we land big contracts and small contracts and B, the C is that I get lead.
00:23:23:03 - 00:23:31:18
Speaker 2
I mean, yeah, right now, I mean, everything. If I'm not in a training room, I'm not doing coaching, I'm not on a podcast, I'm in real time sales.
00:23:31:18 - 00:23:32:00
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:23:32:22 - 00:23:35:15
Speaker 2
So what happens? I beat my competitors to the point.
00:23:35:16 - 00:24:00:18
Speaker 1
So then I guess what you're saying is, or what I'm hearing you say is that it's a mindset before you even get to it being a craft and following a, you know, a predetermined system or process. It's a mindset because, you know, what does it take for someone to have that kneejerk reaction to a lead coming in? You know, I mean, you run your own business.
00:24:00:18 - 00:24:25:01
Speaker 1
So a lot of good, successful business owners are always paranoid, you know? And I think that's a good quality because we know we can be put out of business. You're in control of your own destiny because you understand how to sell, but you also have to be driven enough or motivated enough to respond quickly and not think that they're going to call you back or not call a competitor.
00:24:25:01 - 00:24:57:08
Speaker 2
Or not not hear about your you know, they fill out a form or they look at your marketing and they go, Yeah, and they do whatever your call action is. They're expecting a response with me. If I don't get a response, I don't trust that company. So this brings me to a fourth reason of why businesses fail, whether it's because of their sales staff or themselves, it's a lack of accountability in the marketplace.
00:24:57:08 - 00:25:27:09
Speaker 2
People are afraid to hold themselves and or their sales team accountable because they're afraid they'll leave not okay. And so they tolerate they they tolerate people being slow to respond. Yeah. All right. And working with a client, a trucking company in Lakeland. And I was I was coaching them and I was saying, how many leads do you have that are more than 24 hours old?
00:25:28:22 - 00:25:54:01
Speaker 2
And none of them would answer me, but they all want as I said, they all say I. I said I'd fire all of you. You mean to tell me your boss is writing a check to some marketing company they're driving leads to you. And so here's number five. You wanted to fifth reason why salespeople fail. Business owners fail.
00:25:55:09 - 00:25:58:19
Speaker 2
The least amount of what they do in their day is sales.
00:25:59:13 - 00:26:01:22
Speaker 1
It's not prioritized.
00:26:01:22 - 00:26:25:12
Speaker 2
If you were to sit down and look at what a sales person does, what they have to do to sell usually gets 10 to 15% of their day. All right. Was working with a client from California and I did some training and then the CEO calls me, says, this has to be confidential. I won't mention them. They call stuff financial.
00:26:25:12 - 00:26:54:12
Speaker 2
So she said, well, we're not getting the volume. I said, okay, give me the responsibilities you have with your salespeople. What are you asking to do? And the single most important thing they were supposed to do was take an inbound lead and call them. And based on the amount of volume that was being done, I said, your sales team is working an hour and a half a day.
00:26:54:12 - 00:26:54:18
Speaker 1
Yep.
00:26:55:08 - 00:27:01:17
Speaker 2
It's you go, how can you figure it out? I said, You got the software. So what else are they doing?
00:27:01:23 - 00:27:02:06
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:27:02:21 - 00:27:26:11
Speaker 2
She said, what would you do. I said well I'd ask them that first. Yeah. And then I would create time blocking from this time to this time. You're making calls from this time to this time you're making calls now. They wanted everything put in the CRM, which was great. After your call back, do your recording. So do all your calls first.
00:27:26:11 - 00:27:37:17
Speaker 2
Take everything, all your notes, and then stick them in your CRM. And and so it's it's prep time is so important in sales.
00:27:38:12 - 00:27:38:19
Speaker 1
Yes.
00:27:39:06 - 00:28:02:16
Speaker 2
Okay. And having a solid I don't have to think about it. I can get a proposal out in 5 to 7 minutes because I have everything on a template on word documents that all I have to do is take what I have is what's called a core story or my sales interview. Take what it is they want to improve, take what they want to accomplish, determine timeline.
00:28:02:20 - 00:28:33:08
Speaker 2
And I can literally take what came out of their own mouth and put it on a proposal. So from a time efficiency standpoint, you know, I could I can be in real time. So when I'm doing my call block, the only the only social media platform that's open is LinkedIn, because that's where my target market is. And I have the kind where somebody views my profile, they know it.
00:28:34:17 - 00:28:47:03
Speaker 2
They immediately go on my next call. So I'm not surfing and I'm not writing comments. It's a real time lead source for me that goes right into my calls. So I don't know.
00:28:47:23 - 00:29:07:09
Speaker 1
Why you're setting it up. I mean, there's so much to talk about here, and I'm having all these things pop in my brain as you're talking. You know, it's like a synthesis of, you know, I could even make it even more macro, like when you have a a lot of companies like vision. But this vision, let's say you was in tune with everyone and everyone's on board.
00:29:07:09 - 00:29:30:09
Speaker 1
This is true north of where we're headed. Well, that's going to dictate messaging. And if you've got the messaging and you're really everyone's behind what it is that you're doing, how you affect your buyer and the value you bring. You build a, you know, effective process, a system of selling and marketing around the messaging as a vehicle to take it to your buyers.
00:29:30:15 - 00:30:06:08
Speaker 1
Right. And, you know, you are become a practitioner of your craft so that you can utilize these tools properly and most effectively, and therefore managing your time effectively. You're going to have success that's abounding compared to how you're operating right now. So there's so many different components that have to be synthesized. I think by starting with being critical about what you're doing, auditing what you're doing, and and thinking critically about what's working and what's not working, you're going to start to derive all of these things.
00:30:06:13 - 00:30:29:00
Speaker 1
And if you really do want this to be a more of a more of a craft than a job, something that's fulfilling not only the dollar signs at the end of the of the the month, which is a big thing for salespeople. And some people are wired that way. That's fine. But if you want to have a better score and you want to win more games, then you got to get better at run the ball down the field.
00:30:30:07 - 00:30:34:12
Speaker 2
Well, yeah. And you you gave me my number four number.
00:30:34:12 - 00:30:40:05
Speaker 1
So I've got I've got one, two. I'm going to hold on to you when you're finished. There's so many there's so many of them.
00:30:40:07 - 00:31:10:09
Speaker 2
You lack a system of priority and time management. We have a priority and time management system by which we always prioritize top down. And so what happens is there's a lot of good people out there and they they mean well, they're not. Every person is leads. Yes, got it. But they don't manage their priorities in time. So the day gets away from them, then the week it's away from them.
00:31:10:21 - 00:31:30:14
Speaker 2
All right. And before you know it, you know, they're looking at their business and they're going, you know, we haven't generated a good lead this week and I haven't really had any sales meetings, but it got away from them. Instead of every morning their priority and Time magazine, TIME management should have been designed so.
00:31:31:03 - 00:31:58:19
Speaker 1
So sure. The same, but similar, you know, semantics here we were talking about this in just a few minutes ago, and it came to mind in that the timing of when someone is ready to buy is everything for B2B, and that's both sales and marketing. So marketing's job is to build credibility and influence that timing as much as they possibly can.
00:31:59:06 - 00:32:43:11
Speaker 1
Sales job is to derive the timing and jump on the the the opportunity that's in front of them to close them and close them in a valuable way. Meaning you're bringing more value to them being closed and operating with you than them continuing to search and not solve that problem. And so, you know, on the marketing side, it's it's a you know, it's a conversation because it's about how do we how do we, first of all, get attention and bring awareness to what we're doing so that we can then nurture that attention and influence the timing of their decision?
00:32:43:11 - 00:33:12:06
Speaker 1
Because sometimes that decision can be pushed up a little bit. But on the sales side, back to your you know, I get to lead, I call them, this is where, again, utilizing the tools that are the most effective matter, because if you understand that timing is everything, even if you're not in a business that requires an immediate callback and you approach it that way, the outcome is going to be dramatically different.
00:33:12:06 - 00:33:35:05
Speaker 2
Well, 80% of the people you reach out to the first time, whether it's an inbound lead, whether it's you now, it doesn't matter, are not ready right now. 86% of all sales happen between the sixth and the 15th contact. My lowest closing ratio is when people call me. Yeah, okay. Now this is the way it is. That so?
00:33:35:05 - 00:33:54:05
Speaker 2
I don't treat anybody different and I don't try to figure them out. I just have a policy that everything is in real time and that I'm going to do what I can do, which is when I get a contact, no matter how I get that leak, I'm going to make my initial outreach. I want to get that initial what I call a core story.
00:33:54:11 - 00:34:13:12
Speaker 2
And for us, for stories, the initial sales meeting where they're doing 80% of the talking. Okay, which starts the ball. I mean, it took me ten years to have Blue Cross and Blue Shield. It took me ten years to get in. I real best. Okay. I don't chase, but I stay in touch with them. But I didn't wait on them.
00:34:13:12 - 00:34:21:18
Speaker 2
I did a lot of business in between. But if you have a solid process, you stick to the process no matter what has rights.
00:34:23:00 - 00:34:42:02
Speaker 1
So I think we've got a total of about seven, maybe eight in the hopper. And that's that's far exceeded my expectations. But I know that there's so much more to talk about. I thoroughly enjoy this conversation. I love that it's punchy and quick. Someone can re listen to this multiple times and get a ton of value out of it.
00:34:42:09 - 00:35:10:00
Speaker 1
So much appreciate that. What I am working on and I've been kind of tossing this idea around from the beginning of when I launched my podcast last year. I've had on, you know, obviously marketers and salespeople. What I want to do is I want to put together a panel where we have maybe a total of three or four or five voices, all in the B2B marketing sales alignment conversation.
00:35:10:00 - 00:35:19:22
Speaker 1
And I want to have that discussion about what is marketing sales alignment look like today? 2023 So I want to invite you on that panel. So I think.
00:35:19:22 - 00:35:46:22
Speaker 2
It should be clear that, you know, it is it's I will say this for the entrepreneurs out there, for the sales professionals, there's never been a better time for this reason. If you have an expertize, if you have great mastery over your craft, if you are ambitious, if you're self-disciplined, that's going to be 90% of the competitors. True.
00:35:46:22 - 00:36:10:02
Speaker 2
Okay. A lot of people get into sales or open up their own business for the wrong reasons. They think they have all this flexibility where if you're in sales or you own your own business, you're going with your butt off. Right. And so it's not somewhere where you can go hide and just say, I'm just going to go to work at 9 a.m. and be done by four and go to the gym because it doesn't work that way.
00:36:10:03 - 00:36:40:06
Speaker 1
No, it doesn't at all. It's 24 seven grind and I and you have to really love what it is that you're doing, because at the end of the day, you know, a lot a lot is going to go wrong and you got to be able to stick in there, you know, maybe like different different take on that is that knowing how to sell, you know, even if it's not your craft, it's not your profession, but understanding the mechanics of selling can change your life.
00:36:40:11 - 00:37:04:19
Speaker 1
I mean, it can change your life personally, you know, with your relationships and, you know, understand how to ask right questions and qualify what people are saying. So communication gets clearer. It's it is life changing on the personal side, but also on the business side. If you start a business and you know how to pick up the phone or send an email and and say the right thing that matters.
00:37:05:08 - 00:37:29:19
Speaker 1
And of course, timing being, you know, part of the conversation, too, you're going to have far, far more success than and it allows you to enjoy what it is that you want to do in the business even more because it it takes that burden of of not having new cash coming in the door off of your shoulders. And that's why I think a lot of small businesses fail.
00:37:31:09 - 00:37:32:06
Speaker 2
How about number nine?
00:37:32:06 - 00:37:35:23
Speaker 1
Don't do it right. If we stick here long enough, we might end up with ten or 20.
00:37:37:05 - 00:38:09:10
Speaker 2
I think number nine is that business owners, sales managers don't know how to hire the right salesperson when it's time to hire them and they make mistakes. Okay. By making mistakes, a couple of things happen. You don't get a return on investment, but also you're turning someone loose. That is the front line message to a potential client and they can destroy your brand for sure.
00:38:09:20 - 00:38:40:01
Speaker 2
And so when you're hiring a salesperson, here's what I would hire. I would hire ambition, self-discipline, honesty, and I would train them on the skills and strategies. Okay. But I see people and they hire a salesperson that's been in sales their whole life and turn them loose. And they're out there and they're doing whatever they want to do, saying whatever they want to say.
00:38:40:14 - 00:39:09:10
Speaker 2
And before you know it, feedback is coming to the Home Office that this person wasn't forthright, their messaging wasn't right, and now you've got a mess to clean up. Remember, the salesperson takes the leads from a marketing company, but they they are the lie version of your business. And so I would just be really careful when you're hire a salesperson, when it's buy, make sure you hire the okay.
00:39:09:12 - 00:39:42:07
Speaker 1
So now that you've brought this idea in my head, I we've got to talk about this before we get off of here. So I was talking with the client the other day and they have trouble with their salespeople, you know, and it's a difficult I won't get into the actual industry, but like we can talk maybe talk about this offline, but I just want to kind of get the concept there and get your your feedback so the industry is a very difficult one.
00:39:42:07 - 00:40:25:21
Speaker 1
It's not necessarily one that is sales traditionally has what you would think of as a sales rep. It's it's more of a business development network kind of thing. It's all kind of relationship based. They're hired typically by having kind of their good old boy network, you know, in the area. So they go to them and get the leads and my client saying, you know, I don't want salespeople anymore because kind of what you're saying, like they go out there and they what do they don't really do much, but the other part of it is they're sick of paying these 40% commissions on the front end when what do they really do get it?
00:40:25:21 - 00:40:42:22
Speaker 1
I mean, so we're having this we're having this conversation and we're looking forward, not only their business model, but like, you know, how things are changing in the landscape of their business. But we're looking forward of what this this what does selling look like in the future. And I know you've worked with a lot of seen it firsthand.
00:40:42:22 - 00:41:14:18
Speaker 1
You work with a lot of people who are introverts, people who don't know how to sell, have never sold. They're scared to death of talking to other people or pick up the phone and they win. Right. So so this brings me to my, my, my thing that the thing that I'm pondering right now and actually having active conversations about it, if, if a business can build a stellar back end where the customer service part of it is just on point, in addition to that, their product market fit is on point.
00:41:14:18 - 00:41:36:17
Speaker 1
The service that they're offering people want, maybe there's a maybe there is a really difficult maybe it's not, you know, a really sexy product. So people aren't always looking for it. And for people to change from what they're currently doing is a big lift, right? And there's not a lot of value to get for it to get in the change.
00:41:36:17 - 00:42:08:02
Speaker 1
But when they do, they love being there because of the customer service and the back end personal all this. So we are talking about I'm thinking, okay, well, what if we cut out the salespeople and we train your sort of back in customer service team that are taking care of all your good clients, train them on how to sell and and basically cut out the salespeople and connect the buyer, the new prospective buyers with trained customer service people.
00:42:08:02 - 00:42:26:13
Speaker 1
But they know how to sell essentially, because there's not a lot of selling really that has to happen in these transactions. Is more of the outreach, you know, it's more of like connecting with new people and exposing them to what they're doing that so different and so, so good. So, you know, maybe off the cuff and I won't put you on the spot, but like.
00:42:27:12 - 00:42:28:16
Speaker 2
You know, we want to.
00:42:28:17 - 00:42:29:21
Speaker 1
Hear your thought about that.
00:42:31:05 - 00:42:39:12
Speaker 2
There's nothing wrong with that. For this reason, I train a lot of companies that have sales reps and then account managers. Well, the account managers of the back.
00:42:39:12 - 00:42:41:00
Speaker 1
Yes, that's exactly what I'm talking about.
00:42:42:06 - 00:42:55:08
Speaker 2
And when I finally get through to the owner, so let me train both of them. The account managers wind up outselling salespeople, right? Yeah. Understand. But they still need messaging.
00:42:55:08 - 00:42:55:17
Speaker 1
That's right.
00:42:56:08 - 00:43:38:09
Speaker 2
They need skills. They need to know communication styles. Okay. And they need to know how to cross-sell and upsell and take an existing client and offer other features. And so it's still the same process. All you're just shifting the hand, okay, look, I just worked with new client. I can't mention their name, but they're very much in the education space and they hired all excuse old teachers that are all slow paced, people oriented, shy, reserved, people that don't even like the word sales.
00:43:38:09 - 00:43:49:12
Speaker 2
And when I get done training them, they called the owner and said, We just can't wait for tomorrow to get on the phone again, because their whole perception of what selling was.
00:43:49:12 - 00:43:50:07
Speaker 1
Is going.
00:43:50:08 - 00:44:04:07
Speaker 2
On now. And now they know they're offering the solution. They're solving a problem. They're not trained, they're not selling a widget. And that's the difference between transactional sales in consultation.
00:44:04:10 - 00:44:04:14
Speaker 1
With.
00:44:04:21 - 00:44:27:13
Speaker 2
Transactional, get to yes or no as quickly as possible. Consultative is building rapport, solving a problem, offering the solution, defining the desired result, establishing a timeline and then continuously consultative, following up. And then when they're ready, they buy. Did did I answer your question? You did.
00:44:27:16 - 00:45:09:19
Speaker 1
And I think to it to an extent you did. But I think putting connecting the dots on how how to reform the thinking inside of an organization like that is what I'm looking for, as is how do you take the account managers who natural are good at taking care of people and they know the product inside and out and turn them into salespeople that can then be in alignment with the marketing efforts if they can effectively present the conversations, and even if they reach out cold and start those conversations, there's an overlap that's happening there.
00:45:11:07 - 00:45:37:03
Speaker 2
Well, somebody has to bring the leads to the table. So if it's not going to be the old sales team, then you have to equip these people to be able to take one of your leads, make that initial reach. So it's just a matter of saying, okay, we're going to add a dimension to their position.
00:45:37:04 - 00:45:39:02
Speaker 1
That's right.
00:45:39:02 - 00:45:56:00
Speaker 2
They'll get an extra commission from it, but they're still going to have to be trained and coached on outbound sales because you've added something to them where they never had to go after it and get it. Now they think.
00:45:56:15 - 00:46:13:15
Speaker 1
It's an interesting proposition, I think because knowing this business, the industry that it's in, it really could change a lot of how valuable certain types of those businesses can be in the marketplace, because.
00:46:14:00 - 00:46:14:12
Speaker 2
You're kind.
00:46:14:12 - 00:46:23:22
Speaker 1
Of equidistant like how do you how do you how are you different than your competitor? So it's very it's a very interesting nut to crack. And I think we're real close there.
00:46:23:22 - 00:46:50:08
Speaker 2
So but well before before you start to wrap this can I give a shout out? All right. If everyone would take out their cell phone, go into the text box where the message needs to be. Sales edge, CLEC, some iPhones will break it up, make you put quotes around. It's got to be one word. Text that two, five, five, six, seven, eight.
00:46:50:23 - 00:47:08:14
Speaker 2
That's going to take you to a pitching PC link. Hit the link it's going to take you to a splash page. There is a free webinar, the nine essentials of Sales Success. You just need to put your email in there, enjoy it. It a master class.
00:47:08:14 - 00:47:08:23
Speaker 1
Based.
00:47:09:07 - 00:47:09:19
Speaker 2
On and they.
00:47:09:19 - 00:47:14:04
Speaker 1
Probably are the same nine that we got just just got done talking about it I can tell you that.
00:47:14:05 - 00:47:35:02
Speaker 2
No not at all. No, not at all. Now, also, if any of you want to ever have a complimentary cup of Joe, they call me at 4079472590. Make sure we connect on LinkedIn and then they can put my my two websites PCE PCE Inc and sell more virtually dot com on the show.
00:47:35:02 - 00:47:42:15
Speaker 1
Notes I can guarantee you with 100% accuracy that Joe will pick up your phone call. And if he doesn't.
00:47:42:20 - 00:47:43:03
Speaker 2
Or.
00:47:43:04 - 00:48:09:09
Speaker 1
If he doesn't, your back will get a phone call probably within 5 minutes. It's he's like the phone. He's like an AI assisted phone operator. It's like the phone is part of his identity. Like, you know, I mean, you're so that's how good you are. But yes, we'll link all that stuff below. And I would 100% say, go watch the free webinar through the text link because you'll get a ton of value out of it.
00:48:09:09 - 00:48:29:20
Speaker 1
And I would additionally say from personal experience, of course this is wasn't meant to be a pitch for your you know what you do, but I'm fine with it because I got a lot of value from it myself. When I went through, of course, I was apprehensive because at that stage I was my mind was all tangled as to what is it that I'm doing with my business?
00:48:29:20 - 00:48:43:20
Speaker 1
So I'm a overthinker I think a lot. I think too much on off. You remember that part. But I think I do. I remember saying too much. So that was really the problem is I just needed to get out of my head in and do some things. And and that's what, you know, you of course, allowed me to just have some clarity.
00:48:44:11 - 00:49:05:08
Speaker 1
But I in anticipation of the course, I thought, do I really need this? I mean, I've been selling for ten years and I know I've read all the books, I've listened all the chat home stuff. I've been through formal corporate training classes for weeks on end. Like I have all the sales staff, I've done it, I've succeeded. Why do I need to go do spend more money and do this?
00:49:06:12 - 00:49:27:04
Speaker 1
And so finally, I was just at a point of I need some, some more external feedback and I was so thankful that I did it because it just helped me to break down that barrier that was in my mind and just, you know, steam steam full ahead into, okay, my messaging is back. I know what it is that I'm saying.
00:49:27:07 - 00:49:38:00
Speaker 1
I can get on the phone and make phone calls, I can send emails, I can LinkedIn, you know, I can do all the things I need to do. And when I'm talking people in person to it's not just the phone. You know, when I'm talking to people, I have.
00:49:39:04 - 00:50:14:21
Speaker 2
Oh, yeah, that's that's really 90 minutes to the train. Okay. The live call the rest is all the infrastructure on the whole process of selling. And by the way, we do the three day sales bootcamp every April and every October. If you want any information on that, just reach out to me. We also something else that I always like to say on a podcast, one of the biggest verticals we have, we work with speakers, coaches, trainers and consultants that either want a full time or part time monetized or talent and intellectual property.
00:50:15:04 - 00:50:24:06
Speaker 2
And we teach them the back end of how to have a very solid consulting, speaking, training business. And we've helped people get into six figures in less than a year.
00:50:24:13 - 00:50:28:09
Speaker 1
Speaking in their domain.
00:50:28:09 - 00:50:47:08
Speaker 2
Training, coaching, speaking, whatever, anybody that helps other companies helps other people, whether it's from the big stage or training room or consulting, we help them package all that up in a way, take it to market, build out their business model. It's just it's an incredible product.
00:50:47:08 - 00:50:50:11
Speaker 1
Awesome again, you just sharing the knowledge of the things that you've done.
00:50:52:06 - 00:50:53:18
Speaker 2
Yeah. And that's all we do love it.
00:50:54:10 - 00:51:15:20
Speaker 1
This has been awesome and I can't wait to release this so everybody can get so much value from this conversation and we'll chop this up a million different ways to so people can can consume it on different social media. But I'm going to have you back. I'm getting my panel together. Whenever I get everybody together, both marketers and salespeople, we're going to do that.
00:51:15:20 - 00:51:19:18
Speaker 1
And it's going to be it's going to be really good. I'm excited to have you on.
00:51:19:18 - 00:51:22:12
Speaker 2
That should be my honor.
00:51:22:12 - 00:51:58:13
Speaker 1
All right. Let's get back to work. All right. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. It was so much fun talking to Joe, and I hope you got a ton of value out of this conversation and some of the other podcast episodes you've been listening to. And if so, would you please go over to wherever you're listening to this podcast, Spotify, Apple, YouTube wherever you're finding this, and either subscribe if you haven't subscribed and leave a rating, a review and even more so hit me up on LinkedIn, leave a comment and let me know.
00:51:58:13 - 00:52:06:11
Speaker 1
Like, what are you enjoying about hearing this podcast? Because we want to do more of what you guys are liking. Anyways, we'll see you on the next episode.